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Need An Opinion From Door Guys.

 
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Old 01-27-2013, 12:44 AM   #1
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Need An Opinion From Door Guys.


Need to get an opinion on what may be main cause of an door issue before I claim we are being thrown under the bus.

Short Story:
Was called out to spray finish a door today by a contractor. The contractor installed a new pre-hung entry the day before. We sprayed the door which had already been taken down for us. After spraying, the contractor asked us to rehang the door.

Since we do it all the time, we were happy to oblige. We install the door back on the hinges by just screwing the door back onto the hinges which were still on the frame. Door closed for us and locked albeit a little tight. We drive away and then get a call from the contractor 30 minutes later frantically saying that the door is not locking and we need to come back to fix it.

We get there and start to investigate. The hinges are sitting flush in the mortise areas so fine there. We close the door and we can visibly see that the door is not hanging square in the frame and is hanging almost an 8th to 1/4th of an inch down which causes the door to drag a bit.

We started loosening screws in the hinges to move the door up and down to no avail. To solve the problem, we had to shim the bottom hinge to push it out a bit(almost 5/8th of an inch gap shimmed I believe) and voila the door shuts now without issue or clearance issues. But the bottom hinge is no longer flush with the mortise at all but it does close now so I don't really care.

My question and dilemma:

I have always been told and understood that if you have to shim a door at the hinge that 9 times out of 10 the frame itself is not square or the door was not mortised correctly.

I explained this to the contractor and he kept claiming that his frame was square. The contractors customer even mentioned that he's built houses and installed doors before and did not believe the door was framed correctly.

Is my statement that a un-square frame was the potential culprit correct? Or is this something that we might have done wrong? I know it's hard to say without being there but I'm going nuts.
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Old 01-27-2013, 01:00 AM   #2
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Re: Need An Opinion From Door Guys.


Pretty simple. If you put it back on with hinges flush as they should be its not your fault. Maybe your problem now as you were the last one to touch it! Just remember this for next time and tell them if you take it off you will put it back on. That way you know what it looks like first.

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Old 01-27-2013, 01:07 AM   #3
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Re: Need An Opinion From Door Guys.


Double Post

Last edited by workingintx; 01-27-2013 at 01:10 AM.
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Old 01-27-2013, 01:09 AM   #4
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Re: Need An Opinion From Door Guys.


Quote:
Maybe your problem now as you were the last one to touch it!
I think you are right.

I don't believe this door ever shut correctly because one thing I noticed is that the latch area on the casing had been chiseled a few times and covered up with caulk.

Well we have already informed this contractor to never contact us again and that his money is being refunded. He seemed pretty shady when I tried to start nailing him down on our standard contract. A lot of "but but but" and "come on man, it's as simple job, why do we need all that?".

Hell, We didn't even need the work as we are booked out a few months but I took it because the guy seemed desperate and we've all been there.

Now karma is biting me on the ass I think for trying to help someone out.
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Old 01-27-2013, 10:05 AM   #5
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Re: Need An Opinion From Door Guys.


One sure way to tell if he put it in square is to put a square on it or tape cornor to cornor. No way should it be your fault for just rehanging the door and it does not close right.
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Old 01-27-2013, 10:14 AM   #6
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Re: Need An Opinion From Door Guys.


The extra weight of the paint caused stress on the hinges. Its your fault!! It closed before now it dont!
Just kidding!! Stay away from guys like these. They will haunt you every job. They are the guys that spend a quarter and expect a new Cadillac.
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Old 01-27-2013, 01:42 PM   #7
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Re: Need An Opinion From Door Guys.


did you ever pull out the screws on the jamb side of the hinge? the shims may have fallen.

Do you typically remove screws? I always knock out the hinge pins, What is the reason for this? to not have to tape the hinges?

As said previously, test before you accept ownership of anything. document as needed.
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Old 01-27-2013, 01:48 PM   #8
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Re: Need An Opinion From Door Guys.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Pearce Services View Post
Do you typically remove screws? I always knock out the hinge pins, What is the reason for this? to not have to tape the hinges?

.
As far as I understood he was painting the door with a sprayer. Sounds like he removed all the hinges so he could paint evrything without overspray getting on the hardware. Most likely the hinge screws got overtorqued or undertorqued, now its all jacked up because they moved the frame around.
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Old 01-27-2013, 02:55 PM   #9
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Re: Need An Opinion From Door Guys.


What brand of door? Is the door still dragging? Are you done there or do you have to go back?
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Old 01-27-2013, 03:07 PM   #10
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Re: Need An Opinion From Door Guys.


If I spray a door I remove all hardware then put tape on the mortise where the hinges are. This prevents build up of paint in the mortise.

Paint adds more than one would think. If the door was hung with enough gap between the door and the jamb it should go back correctly. If I were to rely on your story as fact then I believe you are not responsible for the door.
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Old 01-27-2013, 03:07 PM   #11
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Re: Need An Opinion From Door Guys.


5/8!!! Pahhahah. That can't be you're fault. Typically doors come with two install screws some guys go one top and one middle. So that would put nail/nails on the bottom hopefully the latter.

Even if the top shims dropped that would make it catch on top. But the door shouldn't that've moved it should be shimmed in at least six spots depending on what you need to get your reveals. So not your fault.

Sounds like you walked right into that one. How can contractors act this way? So ridiculous.
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Old 01-27-2013, 03:14 PM   #12
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Re: Need An Opinion From Door Guys.


Pull the pins split the hing, take it off the slab spray and reinstall hinge on slab. I never try to hold a door and screw it to the hing, that is just asking for trouble.

Now in this specific scenario it sounds to me like you were setup. They had the door off when you got there because they jacked the install. Enter you, the scape goat, to finish and rehang and, as has been stated, you were the last to touch it so know you own it. .
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Old 01-27-2013, 03:28 PM   #13
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Re: Need An Opinion From Door Guys.


No where in any of these post does anybody say anything about plumb level and square. Is the frame plumb and level
Is the door square? This has nothing to do with the painter unless you bent the swags of the hinges rehanging the doors.
Tell the super unless you found some drips call the carpenter
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Old 01-27-2013, 03:45 PM   #14
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Re: Need An Opinion From Door Guys.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Randy Bush
One sure way to tell if he put it in square is to put a square on it or tape cornor to cornor. No way should it be your fault for just rehanging the door and it does not close right.
Ahem..

The door doesn't sound like it was any of those, therefore rules out the painter.
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Old 01-27-2013, 03:46 PM   #15
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Re: Need An Opinion From Door Guys.


Sounds like it is neither plumb or level

The only mistake you made was trying to adjust it. I would have told the contractor forget about it... I'm a paintah not a carpentah....��

Last edited by Craftmark; 01-27-2013 at 03:49 PM.
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Old 01-27-2013, 04:22 PM   #16
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Re: Need An Opinion From Door Guys.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Burns-Built View Post
Ahem..

The door doesn't sound like it was any of those, therefore rules out the painter.
Pretty much what I said.
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Old 01-27-2013, 04:28 PM   #17
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Re: Need An Opinion From Door Guys.


I was giving you the credit randy you said it wasnt square someone else said that no one had stated it was. i was pointing out he was incorrect.
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Old 01-27-2013, 04:31 PM   #18
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Re: Need An Opinion From Door Guys.


Sounds to me like the hinge side jamb isn't plumb. Either the shims fell out when the removed the hinges from the jamb or it wasn't plumb to begin with. Either way, I'd say should be their problem although since you touched it last, it will probably fall on you to fix it.

Fixing it shouldn't be that hard. All you would need to do is pop the casing on one or both sides of the jamb on the hinge side and shim it out until its plumb. I always nail the jamb in place through the shims to hold them in place. Them all you need to do is reinstall the casing. This assumes of course that the latch side and top jambs are installed correctly.

But anyhow, definitely a carpenter fix, not something I'd be expecting a painter to do.

Last edited by Dustincoc; 01-27-2013 at 04:38 PM.
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Old 01-27-2013, 04:45 PM   #19
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Re: Need An Opinion From Door Guys.


Just to be clear, we sprayed the door with varnish. We did not paint. We have refunded the measly 75 we charged him for spraying it and told him to hire a door install guy that knows what he is doing.

I normally dont make these mistakes but i was throwing a guy a bone in the hopes of getting future referrals if i saved his butt. now we look like idiots since i wasnt my normal asshole self and followed our normal cya process. my fault for walking into a scapegoat situation.
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Old 01-27-2013, 04:51 PM   #20
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Re: Need An Opinion From Door Guys.


Quote:
Originally Posted by workingintx View Post
Just to be clear, we sprayed the door with varnish. We did not paint. We have refunded the measly 75 we charged him for spraying it and told him to hire a door install guy that knows what he is doing.

I normally dont make these mistakes but i was throwing a guy a bone in the hopes of getting future referrals if i saved his butt. now we look like idiots since i wasnt my normal asshole self and followed our normal cya process. my fault for walking into a scapegoat situation.
Here's a clue by four for ya: He (that effing clown of so-called no-good, stinking effing scumbag "contractor") got what he wanted - a freebie.

Painters paint, carpenters hang doors.

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