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Hurd Windows, Where Are The Weep Holes

 
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Old 07-16-2014, 11:27 PM   #1
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Hurd Windows, Where Are The Weep Holes


I had a call from a client who has been in this house for four years, and has been battling water leaks that entire time. They have had several window companies in to look at it, a gutter company who sold them new gutters, and a roofer who reroofed the house. They have also had someone go up there and caulk the bejeezus out of everything they could find. Like the sash to the frame on the fixed units. Big no no there.

They haven't had any window companies do any work, because the windows companies would only make repairs if they bought all new windows.

The windows in the pictures are over a porch, and during rainstorms, water flows from the seams of the porch soffitt, and also shows up inside at the head of the first floor windows, dripping from between the window casing and the jamb.

While the builder was stupid to put the windows that close to the roof (Sorry, one of my pet peeves), there are other reasons these leak. I am guessing that the roof to wall flashing is improperly installed/intergrated with the tyvek, (if tyvek is even present) which would be the primary source of the problem.

These are Hurd windows, and I do know that the larger units were field mulled, which I've seen water intrusion problems with field mulled units before as well, at the exterior aluminum mull strip.

The alarm sensors are also installed in the sills, but that alone can't account for the amount of water they are getting.

What I can't figure out though, is where are the weep holes? Did Hurd not use weep holes in these windows. Can I get lucky and just drill some weeps at the bottom of the frames, and greatly help the problem? I've done that before in vinyl windows that were installed upside down (By Home Depot).

Home was built in 2004.

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Old 07-16-2014, 11:46 PM   #2
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Re: Hurd Windows, Where Are The Weep Holes


The builder/architect should be "shaved, sterilized and destroyed."

Unless there is a 4' overhang above those windows, the winter is going to destroy what's below throughout the season.

Those windows are WAY to close to a shallow roof line for "snow country".

There are probably issue with flashing and wrap around the windows.

I noticed the caulking line on the windows only goes up so high.

Question is: what season of the year is the customer experiencing leaks?

( I have an idea...)

Go back to the the builder.

If you go to Hurd, they're likely to tell you, these windows are not installed in accordance with LOCAL building codes.

...and they would be right.

What does Fort Collins CO, local code tell you about placement of windows above a roof plane?

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Old 07-17-2014, 12:04 AM   #3
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Re: Hurd Windows, Where Are The Weep Holes


They actually experience the problems every time there is a driving rain.
Which we have had a lot more of than normal this year.

Yes, I would agree that having windows that close to the roof plane, esp a shallow one, is moronic, but I've solved that problem before.

I don't know the specific codes on it here, but I wouldn't allow it on a new build if I was the contractor.

This house was purchased out of foreclosure by the current owner. I doubt the builder would do any thing about it, if we were even able to track him down. Hurd went bankrupt a few years ago, and was purchased by one of those turn around companies. The first thing they did at the time, was nullify all warranties on Hurd products sold prior to the bankruptcy. The only thing Hurd is good for is providing me with a lot of window replacement work on houses that are as young as ten years.

The caulking that only goes partway was applied by someone who didn't know squat about windows.
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Old 07-17-2014, 12:55 AM   #4
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Re: Hurd Windows, Where Are The Weep Holes


So you've narrowed the the problem to weep holes in the sill?
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Old 07-17-2014, 05:25 AM   #5
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Re: Hurd Windows, Where Are The Weep Holes


first thing i would do is pull the trim,most likely a reverse lap at the head

this is the problem with trying to make to cladding ''impermeable'',1] it's not possible and B] you block drainage
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Last edited by Tom Struble; 07-17-2014 at 06:13 AM.
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Old 07-17-2014, 08:21 AM   #6
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Re: Hurd Windows, Where Are The Weep Holes


I haven't narrowed the problem down to weep holes. If I get this project, I will most certainly remove the 1x4 trim and siding as necessary to find out what is going on.

My big concern is why aren't there weep holes in the frames? If weeps are supposed to be there, and are not, the windows will have water problems no matter what else you do with the drainage plane.
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Old 07-17-2014, 08:58 AM   #7
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Re: Hurd Windows, Where Are The Weep Holes


Are those casement windows (assumed). Open up one of the windows. If they have internal drainage then there should be a weep hole. If not then no weep holes.

I have seen Anderson casements with no weep holes before so I assume other companies may do it.

Only time I've seen internal drainage not used is on Simonton. They still put the weep hole in but send plugs to cover them to increase DP ratings.
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Old 07-17-2014, 09:18 AM   #8
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Re: Hurd Windows, Where Are The Weep Holes


Windows in first Two photos are fixed. Windows in third photo are a mix of fixed and double hung.
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Old 07-17-2014, 09:56 AM   #9
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Re: Hurd Windows, Where Are The Weep Holes


Got more info from a Hurd tech.
The fixed windows are direct set,
And Hurd did nit use woo holes in their design
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Old 07-17-2014, 03:44 PM   #10
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Re: Hurd Windows, Where Are The Weep Holes


well..if they did have weep holes they would have been covered up by that trim on the bottom..right?When you see water always look up first
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Old 07-17-2014, 04:13 PM   #11
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Re: Hurd Windows, Where Are The Weep Holes


The fixed windows appear to be clad double hung sash and frame windows with the sash face glazed to a direct set type frame.

Picture 2 shows a close up of a sash sealed to the frame in this manner. The horizontal sash rail runs through under the vertical sash stile. Where the aluminum clad joins requires sealant within this joint during manufacturing assembly. If insufficient or no sealant is in this joint there may be a direct water path by the lower glass corner for water to travel horizontally and enter to the frame interior beyond where the sash is glazed to the frame.

Inject white sealant into the end of the joint and apply white sealant along the face of the joint. Do this on the top joints and bottom joints.

This joint is unique to the fixed clad double hung sash and frame windows. Operating and picture clad double hung were built significantly different. Please call Hurd Customer Service if more info is needed. 800-433-4873 Mike and Kathy are familiar with your situation.
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Old 07-17-2014, 06:36 PM   #12
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Re: Hurd Windows, Where Are The Weep Holes


ah...just needs a little more caulk..
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Old 07-18-2014, 08:19 AM   #13
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Re: Hurd Windows, Where Are The Weep Holes


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Struble View Post
ah...just needs a little more caulk..
Fixes everything
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Cool, lets put some fabric over a window and let a hurricane throw some stuff at it. I'm sure it will protect you and your windows.

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Old 07-18-2014, 08:25 AM   #14
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Re: Hurd Windows, Where Are The Weep Holes


Thank you Hurdservice.

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