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Housewrap Over Tar Paper?

 
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Old 05-19-2015, 11:05 AM   #1
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Housewrap Over Tar Paper?


Doing a remodel on a house and they found out we could do vinyl siding so that was added. Black board sheathing with tar paper over it.

Can we leave the tar paper and house wrap over top? Should we remove it the. House wrap? Do we need to house wrap with the tar paper there (it's has holes and tears)?

Thanks guys.
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Old 05-19-2015, 11:13 AM   #2
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Re: Housewrap Over Tar Paper?


Around here most would leave the tar paper and tyvec over it. If it was me I would charge to removed the tar paper and have just the tyvec.

This reminds me of something. There's a new school being built down the road from me. They are using that zip wall board and tyvec. I always thought that was a bad idea or is zip wall board not really a vapor barrier?

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Old 05-19-2015, 11:16 AM   #3
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Re: Housewrap Over Tar Paper?


Also make sure there's not plastic behind the wall board. Last few jobs I been on where my siding guys were on the wall sheeting had plastic between it and the studs. I'm not sure this would be a good way to use tyvec and trap a bunch of moister between the wall board. They ended up using a perforated insulated foam sheet over the wall board.
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Old 05-19-2015, 12:16 PM   #4
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Re: Housewrap Over Tar Paper?


No plastic anywhere on this one. Most houses don't have the tar paper but this one did so I was curious.
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Old 05-19-2015, 12:46 PM   #5
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Re: Housewrap Over Tar Paper?


Most here don't have tar, plastic or tyvec. Even most siding company's here don't put tyvec up. Only a handful who do.
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Old 05-19-2015, 12:46 PM   #6
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Re: Housewrap Over Tar Paper?


Quote:
Originally Posted by BCConstruction View Post
Or is zip wall board not really a vapor barrier?
All in one, so they claim.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFXm9VZ0SVM
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Old 05-19-2015, 12:59 PM   #7
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Re: Housewrap Over Tar Paper?


Weird that they are running tyvec and that. That can't be a good thing. This is Prob a $10m+ job too so I hope someone knows what they doing.
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Old 05-19-2015, 02:49 PM   #8
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Re: Housewrap Over Tar Paper?


No big deal for either the zip or tar paper - personally I would remove the tar paper to make sure nothing was hidden

As for the Zip - I would go with HydroGap to help with drainage. Tyvk doesn't really do much except for add another layer of protection while still allowing for moisture to move / escape
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Old 05-19-2015, 04:10 PM   #9
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Re: Housewrap Over Tar Paper?


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No big deal for either the zip or tar paper - personally I would remove the tar paper to make sure nothing was hidden

As for the Zip - I would go with HydroGap to help with drainage. Tyvk doesn't really do much except for add another layer of protection while still allowing for moisture to move / escape

We pulled the paper to be safe. I was hoping you'd chime in as you seem to have a great understanding of the elements at play in a building. I'm still learning that stuff.

So Tyvk isn't worth it?
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Old 05-20-2015, 07:43 AM   #10
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Re: Housewrap Over Tar Paper?


In this case it sounds like someone is taking a belt & suspenders approach / I want to be sure there is no issues. A few years ago I might have taken the same approach but the system has proven itself over time so I see no need. With that I am a big proponent of rain screen details so thus my I would install HydroGap at a minimum if adding anything.
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Old 05-20-2015, 05:14 PM   #11
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Re: Housewrap Over Tar Paper?


i have seen some bad reactions with tyvek over felt..i thought i had some pictures..
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Old 05-20-2015, 06:15 PM   #12
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Re: Housewrap Over Tar Paper?


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i have seen some bad reactions with tyvek over felt..i thought i had some pictures..
Wow, I have never heard of or seen that before...Thanks Tom. I usually pull it but now will make sure I ALWAYS do.
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Old 05-20-2015, 06:22 PM   #13
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Re: Housewrap Over Tar Paper?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Struble View Post
i have seen some bad reactions with tyvek over felt..i thought i had some pictures..

Was there a noticeable change in the tyvek other than the staining? I'm just asking out curiosity, I'd take the tar paper down either way.


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Old 05-20-2015, 06:31 PM   #14
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Re: Housewrap Over Tar Paper?


didn't seem brittle and was localized to this particular area
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Old 05-20-2015, 06:35 PM   #15
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Re: Housewrap Over Tar Paper?


Tyvek is not a vapor barrier. Plastic sheeting on the inside of wall would not matter.
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Old 05-20-2015, 06:43 PM   #16
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Re: Housewrap Over Tar Paper?


Quote:
Originally Posted by BCConstruction View Post
Around here most would leave the tar paper and tyvec over it. If it was me I would charge to removed the tar paper and have just the tyvec.

This reminds me of something. There's a new school being built down the road from me. They are using that zip wall board and tyvec. I always thought that was a bad idea or is zip wall board not really a vapor barrier?
Zip is way more of a vapor barrier than Tyvek. I think Zip perms at around 4 and Tyvek around 58. Zip is the superior air barrier of the two. They may be using the Tyvek to be able to lap window flashing while relying on the ZIP for it's air barrier qualities.
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Old 05-20-2015, 11:02 PM   #17
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Re: Housewrap Over Tar Paper?


Quote:
Originally Posted by SLSTech View Post
In this case it sounds like someone is taking a belt & suspenders approach / I want to be sure there is no issues. A few years ago I might have taken the same approach but the system has proven itself over time so I see no need. With that I am a big proponent of rain screen details so thus my I would install HydroGap at a minimum if adding anything.
So I assume by someone you mean me? And you're saying the tar paper would be sufficient/comparable to Tyvek if it was in good condition (which it's not) However you prefer HydroGap for it's drainage properties?

Never looked at HydroGap before. I just did. That's a neat looking product.

I need to do some more reading regarding the building envelope and the elements involved. Air, water, vapor, thermal transfer, insulation, heat/cold, and whatever else I've missed. Been looking around on your site some tonight and I can see I'll be back for more. Lots of good stuff.

Realizing I still have lots to learn and read, and maybe I'll find an answer to this question myself, but I'll ask it now anyway.

When doing remodel work of various kinds, does it make sense to update to a better standard for controlling the elements when it pertains to a small portion of the entire building? I assume the answer is yes, because every little bit counts, but I'm still curious.

We very rarely build additions and the like. It's typically remodel work or re siding that would involve the exterior of a home. Our default has been to use Tyvek, Typar, or something similar, and apply that first, taped on the vertical seams, and skip taped on the horizontal seams and then install siding. I'm thinking it's time to learn more and apply that knowledge going forward.
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Old 05-21-2015, 05:24 AM   #18
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Re: Housewrap Over Tar Paper?


i believe he was referring to Zip Wall with an additional wrb
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Old 05-21-2015, 08:13 PM   #19
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Re: Housewrap Over Tar Paper?


Sorry XTreme - Tom nailed it (thanks bud)

As for the is it worth doing just a small portion - like many things the answer really is it depends, goals & budget of the HO, etc... Generally though just doing a few things here there can result in noticeable differences. One quick example is full gut for two bathrooms which included all the drywall - HO remarked to me how nice it was to be able to stand in there hallway without feeling like they were broiling - yep replaced the insulation above the two baths with the correct levels & added an attic cover (they didn't even know I was going to do it - I just had it in the estimate)

While you may not do many additions - I have seen small additions actually result in lower electric bills because of how much they cut down on heat gain / loss & air leakage. In many cases they don't even need to add another AC for the addition due to the above, improving the attic insulation & heh because many units are oversized.

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