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Hardi Siding Cons

 
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Old 06-11-2012, 11:12 AM   #61
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Re: Hardi Siding Cons


Dammit. Brick is starting to look better and better.
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Old 06-11-2012, 12:56 PM   #62
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Re: Hardi Siding Cons


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Originally Posted by ccappaul View Post
F.C. fiber cement
M.C. ? What's that ? Thanks
moisture content

this was a job i did about 6 or 7 years ago that i went back to recently,i butted everything tight,kept the material covered

what i don't understand is why did just some joints open up?
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Old 06-11-2012, 02:31 PM   #63
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Re: Hardi Siding Cons


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moisture content

this was a job i did about 6 or 7 years ago that i went back to recently,i butted everything tight,kept the material covered

what i don't understand is why did just some joints open up?
I've never liked Fiber Cement since I first started selling it back in the mid 1990's when I worked on the wholesale side of the business. It's heavy, adding a TON of weight to the structure, it absorbs moisture (contrary to the hardi in the bucket of water that made it's way around for a long time as a sales tool), you need special tools to cut the stuff, the guys need to wear masks when cutting it and you STILL need to paint it. Plus, we are now finding that with the limestone talc used it it's slurry.... mold is extremely attracted to the back side of the stuff where it sweats.

Tom.... you weren't alone getting "sucked in" on the whole FC storm that swept the industry several years ago. I tried my best to steer all of my contractors away from it then, and I refuse to sell it now. I saw "moisture" as a potential problem back then.... and my fears then are starting to become a reality today. I mean if someone as conscientious an installer as you are, is having issues.... what do you think is going on where one time hack wanna-be's put this stuff up about the same time you did?

I see a firestorm on the horizon to rival the whole LP thing of twenty years ago. At least that was just delamination, but with FC and the growing mold issues, who knows where this is headed.

The product I'm using in place of FC when someone doesn't want vinyl, steel or aluminum, is this Everlast product from Norandex.

http://www.completewindowanddoor.com...st_siding.html
http://everlastsiding.com/

It's made from crushed stone and PVC polymers and resins (ZERO organics so never any mold issues). It's extremely light weight, the color goes all the way through, it feels and looks just like wood and is a dream to install.

A little pricer than FC, but well worth it IMHO.
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Old 06-11-2012, 09:00 PM   #64
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Re: Hardi Siding Cons


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moisture content

this was a job i did about 6 or 7 years ago that i went back to recently,i butted everything tight,kept the material covered

what i don't understand is why did just some joints open up?

I visited one of our local yards recently and they have their Hardie stored outdoors and uncovered. I think it holds moisture for quite a while when stored like that. Sure does shrink once on the wall.

Got Caulk?
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Old 06-11-2012, 09:13 PM   #65
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Re: Hardi Siding Cons


ive seen that John ,it has some sort of t&g seam no?

i'd like to try that
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Old 06-11-2012, 09:18 PM   #66
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Re: Hardi Siding Cons


i still don't ''hate'' fc,it has issues,what don't ?
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Old 06-11-2012, 09:38 PM   #67
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Re: Hardi Siding Cons


i just demoed some of this stuff and it was hanging on as 5 or so different layers. just getting it to the job without it bending around enough to delaminate like that is close to impossible. i'm all for wood primed on all sides and a good rain screen.
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Old 06-11-2012, 10:31 PM   #68
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Re: Hardi Siding Cons


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i still don't ''hate'' fc,it has issues,what don't ?
Im using the joint covers next job if I can get them. They're not pretty but neither is the open joint. I have a 3 story 6000 sq ft interior and some exterior remodel coming up to do (3 y.0.) that already needs painted, renailed (yep needs face nailed), all the trim nails face nailed are rusting and a ton of joints are open as much as 3/8 with no splines. The butt joint is the only problem I have with F.C. Always on south and west walls
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Old 06-11-2012, 10:55 PM   #69
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Re: Hardi Siding Cons


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Im using the joint covers next job if I can get them. They're not pretty but neither is the open joint. I have a 3 story 6000 sq ft interior and some exterior remodel coming up to do (3 y.0.) that already needs painted, renailed (yep needs face nailed), all the trim nails face nailed are rusting and a ton of joints are open as much as 3/8 with no splines. The butt joint is the only problem I have with F.C. Always on south and west walls
What is the reveal that it needs to be face nailed now? How is the trim nails rusting a Hardie problem?

If the paint didn't make it 3 years it sounds like there may be other issues to solve than just renailing. Do you have some pictures?
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Old 06-11-2012, 11:02 PM   #70
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Re: Hardi Siding Cons


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What is the reveal that it needs to be face nailed now? How is the trim nails rusting a Hardie problem?

If the paint didn't make it 3 years it sounds like there may be other issues to solve than just renailing. Do you have some pictures?
Colorplus product. Its a 7" reveal smooth. Caulk no longer matches and I didnt say the nails were a hardie problem. Unless your face pinning with SS nails, dont bother at the beach.
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Old 06-11-2012, 11:34 PM   #71
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Re: Hardi Siding Cons


Just use vinyl. A good install will look good. Call me in 3 years when it doesn't, I'll do it it in FC.

Good install in vinyl: Faded product in 3 years.
Good install in FC: No fade

To the non-pro pro's: your work is exclusive of mine, I deal with a specific environment you probably don't deal with.
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Old 06-12-2012, 01:30 AM   #72
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Re: Hardi Siding Cons


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ive seen that John ,it has some sort of t&g seam no?

i'd like to try that
Seams are butted just like FC, However, the Everlast product has a max horizontal expansion of 1/8" on a 12' span. It "sort of" has a T&G type affair where you simply "stack the next course on top of the last. As long as your first course is level, each succeding course stays level as well. I've got a small job of it coming up very soon, so I'll get some pics.
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Old 06-12-2012, 01:40 AM   #73
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Re: Hardi Siding Cons


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Just use vinyl. A good install will look good. Call me in 3 years when it doesn't, I'll do it it in FC.

Good install in vinyl: Faded product in 3 years.
Good install in FC: No fade

To the non-pro pro's: your work is exclusive of mine, I deal with a specific environment you probably don't deal with.
Well, quite un-like any vinyl that I know of, the Everlast has a Lifetime fade warranty. Now, before you shoot the messenger, I haven't actually read the fine print of the warranty, so it's probably some type of fade warranty that guarantee's that it won't fade more than so many color units over the lifetime of the product or some such.

As for FC not fading, you are not correct. The FC isn't what fades, it's the paint applied to it that fades. So to use your nomenclature....

Good install in FC with very expensive finish paint: Probably won't fade much.
Good install in FC with cheap finish paint: Will need to repaint in 3-5 years adding even MORE cost to an already expensive siding job.
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Old 06-12-2012, 01:45 AM   #74
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Re: Hardi Siding Cons


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i still don't ''hate'' fc,it has issues,what don't ?
I don't "hate it" either. I just don't care for it very much.
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Old 06-12-2012, 11:02 AM   #75
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Colorplus product. Its a 7" reveal smooth. Caulk no longer matches and I didnt say the nails were a hardie problem. Unless your face pinning with SS nails, dont bother at the beach.
What do you attribute the loose siding to? Does it need to be re/face nailed because of poor installation or has the wind/other caused it to be a problem.
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Old 06-12-2012, 07:16 PM   #76
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What do you attribute the loose siding to? Does it need to be re/face nailed because of poor installation or has the wind/other caused it to be a problem.
I don't know why this material didnt lay tight. Most of the beach houses are block brick or piling s and the siding starts at 8' above grade so you do notice it more. I could put my finger behind almost all of this stuff. I face nail every job I do and use primed. Paint and caulk looks way better.
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Old 06-12-2012, 07:33 PM   #77
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Re: Hardi Siding Cons


I love the Hardie on my house and 5 yrs in its holding up great. Mine was installed in the summer and I butted everything tight. There are some small seams, but nothing thats an eyesore. The colorplus finish is holding up great with minimal fading even on the south side of the house which gets blasted with sun all year long.

I don;t thing I would go with anything larger than 6.25" or you will get some lifting unless you facenail. Mine is all blind nailed with SS siding nails and nothing is loose or lifting.

Vinyl is far from final and usually looks faded and washed in a few years and the only solution is to tear it off and start over. I will repaint in 10-12 and the house will look like new again. That was the main reason I went with the FC.
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Old 06-12-2012, 07:38 PM   #78
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Re: Hardi Siding Cons


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Good install in FC with very expensive finish paint: Probably won't fade much.
Good install in FC with cheap finish paint: Will need to repaint in 3-5 years adding even MORE cost to an already expensive siding job.
I can agree with that. You need good, UV tolerant paint.
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Old 06-13-2012, 09:52 AM   #79
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Re: Hardi Siding Cons


I was pretty excited about this Everlast siding, but after checking its more than "a bit more" than FC.

With the job I'm looking at, material only is 3 1/2 (pushing 4x) times the cost. Of coarse the Everlast does not need painting, so overall done and said (figuring in painting of the FC) its slightly less than double the cost (roughly 40% more for the Everlast).

I did not take in account any advantage or disadvantage to installing one vs. the other. Everlast looks to definitely have advangages with the weight and "tongue and groove" like install.

Looks like a great product, just a very hard sell at that price!
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Old 06-13-2012, 04:36 PM   #80
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Re: Hardi Siding Cons


With the reduction in labor cost (Everlast goes on nearly twice as fast) along with the cost of two coats of premium exterior paint, no special tools etc.... we've calculated it's about 25% more than a premium FC installation.

With some of the delaminating and mold issues were beginning to see with FC, it just makes more sense for us. I'm not saying it's for everybody.

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