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Going Over Existing Wood Shakes

 
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Old 07-08-2012, 08:26 AM   #1
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Going Over Existing Wood Shakes


customer wants us to go over existing shakes which i really dont like to do. however, the shakes are in very good condition and i dont suspect any wood rot behind. all the windows have trim on the outside, house is 60 years old. question? is it necessary to build out the window trim? we are using insulated siding and going straight over the shakes.
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Old 07-08-2012, 08:53 AM   #2
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Re: Going Over Existing Wood Shakes


na..just side right over everything and then go around with a rotozip

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Old 07-08-2012, 10:08 AM   #3
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Re: Going Over Existing Wood Shakes


Are you serious? You're going to side over existing cedar shakes?

Why do you guys continue to let the HO dictate to you how to do your work? You should know this is wrong. Strip it and start fresh.

You're the one who is supposed to be telling the HO how the job must be done. If you know what you're doing that is...........
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Old 07-08-2012, 10:11 AM   #4
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Re: Going Over Existing Wood Shakes


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Originally Posted by Tom Struble View Post
na..just side right over everything and then go around with a rotozip


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Old 07-08-2012, 10:59 AM   #5
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Re: Going Over Existing Wood Shakes


You're kidding right? Wood SHAKES???

Maybe you can send those two guys from the van and the MMF wannabe to do the project. Then when the homeowner complains about everything being wavy, the one guy can just punch the crap out of them and tell them how stupid they were to want that. Those wood shakes are gonna sweat like crazy under that insulated siding and continue to swell and move around a lot with all that trapped moisture. What do you think that job's gonna look like after a couple of years?

Of course, pulling them off means LEAD SAFE practices on a home built in 1960. But that's the correct way to do the job and following correct RRP proceedures goes right along with it.

Either insist on doing the job properly and charge accordingly, or walk away.
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Old 07-08-2012, 11:01 AM   #6
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Re: Going Over Existing Wood Shakes


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Struble View Post
na..just side right over everything and then go around with a rotozip


Funny Tom.... but I really wonder just how many times something like this is done?
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Old 07-08-2012, 11:14 AM   #7
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Re: Going Over Existing Wood Shakes


well i have sided over almost everything
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Old 07-08-2012, 11:16 AM   #8
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Re: Going Over Existing Wood Shakes


Davinci, dont let these guys get you down. I personally enjoy having you around. If you are going to side over the shakes install fanfold first. Be sure to shim the joints of the fanfold flush. Also never install it upside down because thats just wrong. If your siding the whole house then you should be wrapping the windows with aluminum trim prior to siding installation. It can be done correctly.
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Old 07-08-2012, 11:32 AM   #9
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Re: Going Over Existing Wood Shakes


first off if the shake exposure is over 8''use i/2'' extruded foam don't use fanfold, over time it will bow in towards the wall in between widely spaced high spots,fanfold especially the expanded kind are best used on a flat surface

if the shakes are spaced close enough insulated siding can be run directly on it,but i would use a house wrap first and ''try'' to establish a decent drainage plane
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Old 07-08-2012, 12:25 PM   #10
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Re: Going Over Existing Wood Shakes


I had this conversation couple of years ago:https://www.contractortalk.com/f33/kn...-client-66526/

This house had the double course of shakes
and HO insisted on leaving them on.

Worst part was furring out windows and sills since he wanted 1" insulation.

Manufacturer recommended taping all joints and sealing against any air
infiltration bottoms and tops of insulation also.
The theory being,if the air doesn't get between old shakes and the back of
insulation there is less risk of creating a "dew point".

Here's some shots of that project in progress;
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?...4011504&type=1
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Old 07-08-2012, 12:48 PM   #11
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Re: Going Over Existing Wood Shakes


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Originally Posted by Tom Struble View Post
well i have sided over almost everything
You and me both. Sometimes ya gotta do what ya gotta do.

I definitely wouldn't use an insulation board if they aren't paying to have the windows firred and capped. It will look like dooky. I would fir out the shakes with lathe and use a vapor barrier.

However, I would ask the HO why they want to keep the shakes. Once you put a thousand nails through it, there is no going back. I would tell the HO that there most likely is rot in certain areas, corners and downspout points for example, and you can give them a clean bill of health if they ever want to sell it.

The amount of time and pain in the assness of firring it out and dealing with getting a good seal around the windows would pretty much balance out the cost of tearing the shakes off. Unless you and your guys are not RRP certified, then you can't do it anyway.

If it is a matter of money, then the HO will get what they pay for. A job that looks like dooky, no matter how hard you try.
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Old 07-08-2012, 12:53 PM   #12
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Re: Going Over Existing Wood Shakes


the siding already is insulated,the attached foam thickness [1/2'' nominal] still needs to be dealt with at the trim,which being shake is probably flush
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Old 07-08-2012, 12:58 PM   #13
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Re: Going Over Existing Wood Shakes


This is what makes it look like dooky. All the nice window detail is suddenly recessed. Along with not having anything to really seal your J to. Add in a 1/2 inch foam board to flatten things and it gets even worse.

I assume this is the main problem. I've decided not to turn my brain on today, so I may be wrong.
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Old 07-08-2012, 01:00 PM   #14
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Re: Going Over Existing Wood Shakes


which..makes it necessary.. to build out the trim

that help?
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Old 07-08-2012, 01:24 PM   #15
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Re: Going Over Existing Wood Shakes


Ok guys.... I can go along with leaving the shakes, if.... and I mean a big IF.... the shakes are totally furred out to let them breathe, and all of the penetrations are then built out (windows, doors, hose bibs, recepticles etc), flashed and sealed, before any new stuff is installed. If you don't do that, then the entire project will look like dog doodie in a couple of years. I don't care how good those shakes look right now, once they get buttoned up and moisture is trapped, they will swell and move around like crazy.

It really is better to just do the right thing and tear them off. Better for the HO and better for your reputation a couple of years down the road. The lure and elation of the $$$ from this job will be long forgotten when your hard earned reputation starts getting tarnished after the thing starts getting real friendly and waving at everyone. By then, all the HO will remember is your name. NOT they they talked you into leaving the shake on the house.

Just sayin....
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Old 07-08-2012, 01:29 PM   #16
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Re: Going Over Existing Wood Shakes


of course it's better
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Old 07-08-2012, 01:30 PM   #17
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Re: Going Over Existing Wood Shakes


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which..makes it necessary.. to build out the trim

that help?
I suppose it will have to do.
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Old 07-08-2012, 02:05 PM   #18
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Re: Going Over Existing Wood Shakes


I agree with removing the shakes for all the reasons mentioned and
always try to sell a job quoted with removal.
Sometimes you just get a client that thinks the extra cost isn't warranted
and insists on leaving them on.
I did a few this way 30 years ago when I started out installing vinyl.
I drive by these homes at least once a year and everything looks good still.
I've been back to a few to do other projects and have gotten a close look to
see what may have changed.
Visually,everything seems fine.Can't say what is occurring under the siding,but
there is no noticeable waviness or buckling.I do know that some of these
were face nailed every couple of inches from the areas I had stripped,and it was a
big PITA removing them and the ring shank nails.Could be the reason for them
staying tight.

Some factors that may affect this type of installation and should
be evaluated on site for each individual house.If the shakes have not been
holding paint for long periods of time,I'd be wary of not stripping since this
could be an inherent moisture problem.
Could be the way the home is insulated,wet areas and basements,lack
of interior vapor barrier,or lack of insulation.
I usually inspect the bottom course of the shakes for wetness,and rot.Some
of the old homosite backing used behind some of these installations would
just suck the moisture right out of the air and stay wet for long periods of time.

Do your homework and inspect all areas that are accessible so you can,in good
conscience,install as the HO suggests if the conditions are favorable.
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Old 07-08-2012, 02:25 PM   #19
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Re: Going Over Existing Wood Shakes


Just because, thats why..

going over existing wood shakes-forumrunner_20120708_152454.jpg
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Old 07-08-2012, 05:42 PM   #20
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Re: Going Over Existing Wood Shakes


if we go over with insulated siding, we would need to build out the window casing, correct?
currently the casing is almost flush with the shakes

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