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Anderson Windows Not Installed Properly

 
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Old 07-20-2012, 01:18 AM   #1
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Anderson Windows Not Installed Properly


There is quite a building boom going on in my area, new home builders popping out of the wood work and remodelers traveling far to some neighborhoods around here. I have been driving by new roads when i have time and i am very surprised as what i see. Just about every house is getting Andersen windows, however, probably 1 out of every 10 has them installed correctly!

we are not talking about budget addy's where "anything goes", these are mil and 2 mil homes, and who knows how many hundreds of thousands for some addy's...

It was last spring at a carpentry clinic where i was introduced to the pan and tape methods they spec out now, it was explained to us damage caused by just running a strip of tyvec around the hole and sticking a window in it, that and i have seen it both in sheeting rot and drywall deterioration at the bottom corners of the windows.

I have used this simple information to successfully re-install dozens of windows and saved some of my clients thousands of dollars in future damage, most of the time it was a bit of rotten sheeting, moldy insulation, and some drywall... it could only get worse over time.

so back on topic, i have been driving by all this new work and maybe 1 out of 5 has it done correctly! what is going on?

no pan
no vycore
improperly lapped wrap
i saw one today where there was no pan, but it was vycored on all 4 sides and the wrap was not on yet so the water will still travel down the tape and on to the sheeting.....

am i the only one doing this the way they want it for the warranty? if not even the warranty, the integrity of the watershed? there has to be a way i could market this to people, i will just paper and install the windows.....

end rant

Last edited by world llc; 07-20-2012 at 06:24 AM. Reason: it's not Anderson :)
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Old 07-20-2012, 01:34 AM   #2
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Re: Anderson Windows Not Installed Properly


Yes go for it! Start a co. that installs windows. I and a partner used to reinstall window a lot so the manufacture would warranty their product. If I see a HO at their job site on the weekend or after work I'll stop in and talk to them and let them know about the hack job that's been done on the windows.

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Old 07-20-2012, 06:14 AM   #3
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Re: Anderson Windows Not Installed Properly


Ahem.....Andersen Windows
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Old 07-20-2012, 06:19 AM   #4
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Re: Anderson Windows Not Installed Properly


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Ahem.....Andersen Windows
ah,

it was a little late when i wrote this, can a mod fix my bad spelling?

thankyou
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Old 07-20-2012, 06:19 AM   #5
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Re: Anderson Windows Not Installed Properly


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Yes go for it! Start a co. that installs windows. I and a partner used to reinstall window a lot so the manufacture would warranty their product. If I see a HO at their job site on the weekend or after work I'll stop in and talk to them and let them know about the hack job that's been done on the windows.
world window re-installation....
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Old 07-20-2012, 07:33 AM   #6
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Re: Anderson Windows Not Installed Properly


Here is one I pass by, atleast they taped....

Even if its 80% correct, its still wrong!
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Old 07-20-2012, 07:40 AM   #7
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Re: Anderson Windows Not Installed Properly


This is classic not caring. The trim has already started to go in on the uppers too

I should keep driving down side streets today!
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Old 07-20-2012, 08:06 AM   #8
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Re: Anderson Windows Not Installed Properly


i was helping out a buddy of mine putting on vinyl siding on a new house,aluminum casings on some windows Hardie trim on the others

there was 6'' flashing tape just on top of the flanges all around,no sill pan,i just refused to trim any windows..i just couldn't bring myself to do it..the guy i was working with just cracked up laffing at me and told me to keep my mouth shut [he knows me well]

thing was on the very next job 3 towns over the builder failed inspection for windows flashed wrong
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Old 07-20-2012, 08:12 AM   #9
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Re: Anderson Windows Not Installed Properly


thats the problem.. its the UNIFORM CONSTRUCTION CODE. you would think inspectors would enforce it all uniformly. in "my" town they want it this way.. in that town they want it that way. drives you crazy!!
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Old 07-20-2012, 08:12 AM   #10
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Re: Anderson Windows Not Installed Properly


I watched an episode of This Old House a year or so ago where Tom Silva was installing Andersen windows without putting sill pans under them. His explanation was that since the windows had welded frames (I'm assuming PVC), they couldn't leak & there was no need for sill pans.
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Old 07-20-2012, 08:14 AM   #11
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Re: Anderson Windows Not Installed Properly


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Originally Posted by world llc View Post
This is classic not caring. The trim has already started to go in on the uppers too
I used to believe that too, but it's amazing how many otherwise good carpenters don't know how to properly install windows, siding, WRB's, etc. I'm not convinced they don't care, just that they could use more instruction.
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Old 07-20-2012, 08:21 AM   #12
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Re: Anderson Windows Not Installed Properly


well what is the ''code'',i thought it was to manu.spec and if there are none you use AAMA--A or B method,how can a b.i. deviate from manu.spec?

and we need to remember how it's important ,atleast for window warrenty proper lapping of the wrb is...cause it all starts there
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Old 07-20-2012, 08:28 AM   #13
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Re: Anderson Windows Not Installed Properly


exactly. if it doesnt specifically say it in the code then its per manufacturer's specifications. but like i said. different inspectors enforce things differently. thats the problem.
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Old 07-20-2012, 08:38 AM   #14
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Re: Anderson Windows Not Installed Properly


Working one right now that is getting a sun room added so have remove some siding for the framer, Anyhow get it off and windows are not even flashed, french doors have a 1/2 gap around with no insulation. And this is not a cheap home neither.
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Old 07-20-2012, 08:57 AM   #15
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Re: Anderson Windows Not Installed Properly


The code says flashing be installed in shingle fashion. Its been done so long this way the inspectors dont pick it up. They focus on life safety stuff. They cant be critical of sloppy work. Its the sloppy siding work thats the biggest factor for the extra insurance. I think the quality of work has been degraded to a point where the codes want to stick ice shield anywhere someone may F-up.

Every addition type job around here the framers will install the windows if on the job. So most guys have them there so they can shoot them in with a roofing gun. Cheap. If your bid factors in the proper procedures and details all around the project you will be so overpriced that you wouldnt ever land a job. Thats not far from the truth.
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Old 07-25-2012, 10:01 PM   #16
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Re: Anderson Windows Not Installed Properly


Quote:
Originally Posted by GRB View Post
I watched an episode of This Old House a year or so ago where Tom Silva was installing Andersen windows without putting sill pans under them. His explanation was that since the windows had welded frames (I'm assuming PVC), they couldn't leak & there was no need for sill pans.
Actually, I haven't checked if there were any changes to A/W install instructions, it was perfectly acceptable to not have a pan for it.
Also, the biggest problem I see with A/W for new construction is not leaving any room at the sill for settling. A/W specs min 1/2" around the sill and depending how bad the framing is, you can have that much settling. If the bricky doesn't leave the space at the bottom, the h/o usually blames the window.
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Old 07-25-2012, 10:07 PM   #17
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Re: Anderson Windows Not Installed Properly


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I used to believe that too, but it's amazing how many otherwise good carpenters don't know how to properly install windows, siding, WRB's, etc. I'm not convinced they don't care, just that they could use more instruction.
I agree.

In fact I watched your video and I learned a thing or two myself!

Thanks for that!
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Old 07-25-2012, 10:15 PM   #18
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Re: Anderson Windows Not Installed Properly


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Actually, I haven't checked if there were any changes to A/W install instructions, it was perfectly acceptable to not have a pan for it.
Also, the biggest problem I see with A/W for new construction is not leaving any room at the sill for settling. A/W specs min 1/2" around the sill and depending how bad the framing is, you can have that much settling. If the bricky doesn't leave the space at the bottom, the h/o usually blames the window.
Steve, I understand that Andersen may not require sill pans, but my point is that they're cheap insurance & should (I believe) be installed as a matter of course.

Good carpenters regularly go beyond the installation instructions to ensure durable installations, no matter whether manufacturers require these extra steps or not. I just can't wrap my head around not installing them these days - it takes only minutes & costs just a few bucks, so why not?
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Old 07-25-2012, 10:22 PM   #19
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Re: Anderson Windows Not Installed Properly


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it takes only minutes & costs just a few bucks, so why not?
Unfortunately an answer that comes to my mind, that drives me insane when I hear it, would be...."Well because I have never done it that way"

When I hear stuff like that it makes me want to call those who you would not regularly think of as a hack, a hack. It tells me that no matter the outcome they are so stuck in their ways that they would rather not discuss it than be shown a new way. Most of the time ...a better way.

Sad really.
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Old 07-25-2012, 10:34 PM   #20
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Re: Anderson Windows Not Installed Properly


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Originally Posted by CrpntrFrk View Post
Unfortunately an answer that comes to my mind, that drives me insane when I hear it, would be...."Well because I have never done it that way"

When I hear stuff like that it makes me want to call those who you would not regularly think of as a hack, a hack. It tells me that no matter the outcome they are so stuck in their ways that they would rather not discuss it than be shown a new way. Most of the time ...a better way.

Sad really.
I've got nothing to add. You summed it up perfectly.

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