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Question For Carpenters From Painters

 
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Old 04-25-2010, 06:45 PM   #21
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Re: Question For Carpenters From Painters


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Kent, I think it was every where.

All it is, is someone who does not care.
My original purpose for asking the question was because I was wondering if it was a lack of education. Do they not care or are there some guys that just don't know that smearing glue on raw wood is unacceptable? When working on new homes, we get doors shipped and installed to the jobsite with so much glue smeared on them that we have to remove the doors, place them on horses and random orbit sand the entire face before staining. I have to charge the builder extra to do this....it just seems so silly. When I ask the builder to log a complaint with the lumber people, he looks at me like I'm an alien.
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Old 04-25-2010, 06:45 PM   #22
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Re: Question For Carpenters From Painters




Hack is a great term for the idiots responsible for that kind of shoty work. Glue should never touch the visible faces raw wood that is to be stained. A good carpenter will check their miters and then Carefully put just enough gule about 1/8th back from the face, and join the two piece in such a fashon as to force the excess glue out the back of the miter. Then clean it up with a moist rag. (if even needed)
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Old 04-25-2010, 06:46 PM   #23
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Re: Question For Carpenters From Painters


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Actually, I don't see why the finish would be necessary. Once the wood is stained, you are free to smear glue on it. I like to apply finish after installation so that all my putty gets a coat of poly....if you don't do that, the putty will eventually dry up and fall out.
I've been using color putty forever. It's oil based & doesn't fall out. Pulled trim on a job this spring that had been filled in the early 80's with color putty & had trouble finding the previous nail holes when I put the trim back on. I know the builder that built the home & when I worked for him, all trim was prefinished with no followup finish.
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Old 04-25-2010, 06:47 PM   #24
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Re: Question For Carpenters From Painters


One can usually tell how trim is going to be finished by the type of material.

Back in the day, I trimmed and built cabs and sanded to 100 grit. The rest was up to the painter/finisher. That was the scope of the job. There shouldn't be glue all over but...since one can't always see glue till you attempt to stain...it's the stainers job to prep it for stain.
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Old 04-25-2010, 06:51 PM   #25
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Re: Question For Carpenters From Painters


color putty gets top coated.
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Old 04-25-2010, 06:51 PM   #26
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Re: Question For Carpenters From Painters


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You run the risk of ghosting if you apply putty in the hole before finishing. The spot the the putty was applied to can infect the wood. You go around and can see where the put was applied even though it was sanded off. Not all putties do this.

As a finisher all my finishes get put on first and then I use wax crayons to fill in the holes. With the correct color crayon you don't even know the hole is there unless you go searching for them.
Very interesting. I have never had much success with the crayons. I gave up pretty quick because I couldn't get the entire hole filled without some extra work. It's probably better for me from a production standpoint to use color putty because it is just faster. I always seal the wood first though before applying putty.
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Old 04-25-2010, 07:36 PM   #27
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Re: Question For Carpenters From Painters


brown sharpie....



I bet these guys are getting cut rates from Pella to bang em out fast.

I would guess they're only getting paint grade rates and are providing just that.

geez... installer, trim guy, paint guy, rrp guy....
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Old 04-25-2010, 09:44 PM   #28
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Re: Question For Carpenters From Painters


There is a slight issue with cleaning glue off of stain-grade trim with a damp cloth, and that is that even though you get most of it, some of that glue will get into the pores of the wood and cause the stain to be absorbed differently. Personally, I don't see any reason to glue joints on casing trim anyways, as an 18 ga nail through the corner will hold it tight just fine.
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Old 04-25-2010, 09:47 PM   #29
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Re: Question For Carpenters From Painters


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Personally, I don't see any reason to glue joints on casing trim anyways, as an 18 ga nail through the corner will hold it tight just fine.
Wood will move and joints will open. It is going to happen unless you glue.

If you only nail it will look great for some time. But it will open up. No doubt in my mind.
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Old 04-25-2010, 09:52 PM   #30
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Re: Question For Carpenters From Painters


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You run the risk of ghosting if you apply putty in the hole before finishing. The spot the the putty was applied to can infect the wood. You go around and can see where the put was applied even though it was sanded off. Not all putties do this.

As a finisher all my finishes get put on first and then I use wax crayons to fill in the holes. With the correct color crayon you don't even know the hole is there unless you go searching for them.
Leo is there a particular technique you use to fill the holes with a crayon?
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Old 04-25-2010, 09:58 PM   #31
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Re: Question For Carpenters From Painters


Yeah, every stained trim I have put on is stained before install, then the painters use a 'kit' and stain and mix putty to fill the holes.
Miter's are glued and any excess glue squeezed out is wiped off.
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Old 04-25-2010, 09:59 PM   #32
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Re: Question For Carpenters From Painters


Rub the crayon over the hole until it fills in and wipe the excess off with a paper towel. Takes about 20 seconds per hole. Seems like a long time. But if you filled the hole with putty and had to sand it would take longer.

I don't really like the soft colored putties. Just because they never dry and will be soft always. The wax will work on finishes up to semi gloss. When you have a gloss finish you need other means of filling holes.

I use touch up products by Mohawk.
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Old 04-25-2010, 10:03 PM   #33
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Re: Question For Carpenters From Painters


I use the Mohawk too
try this sometime
take a paper towel that is dampened with paint thinner or mineral spirits.
Wipe the area you are going to fill, Rub the crayon until the hole is filled and then come back with the damp cloth to clean excess
This doesn't react with the conversion varnish and will speed the filling process by at least half.
The first swipe keeps the crayon from sticking to the surface and the second wipes clean easily and smooths out the surface.
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Old 04-26-2010, 01:39 AM   #34
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Re: Question For Carpenters From Painters


I'm just a framer with limited trim carpentry experience. My first inclination would be to nail it with a 23 gauge pin nailer. Almost invisible.

If that didn't work...I've seen some very cool contact gel glue and aerosol spray combo system that sets in 10 seconds. Done right, that could do a nice job.
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Old 04-26-2010, 06:59 AM   #35
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Re: Question For Carpenters From Painters


23 ga might be a little lightweight. But if you glued everything it would work. I would probably use 18 ga.
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Old 04-26-2010, 09:11 AM   #36
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Re: Question For Carpenters From Painters


2P 10 and 23ga pins work good.

CA glues are not for beginners though.
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Old 04-26-2010, 05:31 PM   #37
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Re: Question For Carpenters From Painters


does the 2p 10 affect the stain color at all??
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Old 04-26-2010, 06:16 PM   #38
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Re: Question For Carpenters From Painters


It's glue. Take a wild guess.
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Old 04-26-2010, 06:22 PM   #39
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Re: Question For Carpenters From Painters


Always helpful as a carpenter that you have done the entire process a few times. On very small jobs I install and finish myself. You learn very quickly not to leave glue, etc on the work. Nothing worse than screwing yourself tends to carry over to not screwing the next trade on the bigger jobs.
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Old 04-26-2010, 06:55 PM   #40
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Re: Question For Carpenters From Painters


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does the 2p 10 affect the stain color at all??
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leo G View Post
It's glue. Take a wild guess.
Especially when you leave half the skin on your finger stuck to the piece.

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