Pricing Cabinet Install - Carpentry - Contractor Talk

Pricing Cabinet Install

 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 03-29-2010, 01:17 PM   #1
Registered User
 
pdxjobs's Avatar
 
Trade: handyman
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 7
Rewards Points: 10

Pricing Cabinet Install


We are installing cabinets in a commercial building. How would you price such a job?
Time or number of cabinets or something else?
pdxjobs is offline  

Warning: The topics covered on this site include activities in which there exists the potential for serious injury or death. ContractorTalk.com DOES NOT guarantee the accuracy or completeness of any information contained on this site. Always use proper safety precaution and reference reliable outside sources before attempting any construction or remodeling task!

   

Advertisement

 

Old 03-29-2010, 01:20 PM   #2
Pro
 
genecarp's Avatar
 
Trade: LI,NY designer, new homes, renovation work, concre
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 5,425
Rewards Points: 2,000

Re: Pricing Cabinet Install


Estimate how long the install will take you, then factor in your daily rate based on your overhead, needs, and ability to charge, GMOD.

Advertisement

__________________
genecarp is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to genecarp For This Useful Post:
pdxjobs (03-29-2010)
Old 03-29-2010, 03:22 PM   #3
Pro
 
cabinet runner's Avatar
 
Trade: cabinet installer
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Southern Maryland
Posts: 183
Rewards Points: 150

Re: Pricing Cabinet Install


Quote:
Originally Posted by pdxjobs View Post
We are installing cabinets in a commercial building. How would you price such a job?
Time or number of cabinets or something else?

Allright no one on here is going to tell you how much to charge but I'll give a couple of tips on how I do it . I submit price sheets to salesman at multiple showrooms .

An easy way to do it is per box i.e. a 24/30 wall cabinet = 1 box .

I charge for 2 boxes on full height cabinets i.e. wall oven cabinets or pantry cabinets .

I also give a price for each style of moldings per stick and if I have to cut 1 ft of a stick to finish it counts .

Seperate price for a knob and a pull .

Pricing for various countertop lengths as well as any cabinet or countertop cutouts . I bid custom built ins or ups individually .

If you do it this way you shouldn't miss anything.

I am very specific about the cabinets being delivered to the floor where the kitchen is or additional charges will apply .

Some installers use linear ft numbers and it also an accurate method .

Good luck
cabinet runner is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 03-29-2010, 04:34 PM   #4
Pro
 
rselectric1's Avatar
 
Trade: Licensed Electrical Contractor and Remodeler
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Chicago Suburbs
Posts: 11,782
Rewards Points: 876

Re: Pricing Cabinet Install


I charge by linear foot.

One rate for uppers which includes any crown
One rate for bases (penninsulas and inslands count as base cabs)
One rate for full wall cabs like pantries.
__________________
220...221...whatever it takes!
rselectric1 is offline  
Old 03-29-2010, 05:03 PM   #5
Pro
 
cabinet runner's Avatar
 
Trade: cabinet installer
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Southern Maryland
Posts: 183
Rewards Points: 150

Re: Pricing Cabinet Install


[quote=rselectric1;908283]I charge by linear foot.


I stopped using this method years ago when I felt I got burned a couple of times .

Salepeople just weren't looking at cetain variables . I felt the linear foot method made them lazy .

With my price sheet now , they had better count everything becuase they know I am and it is in writing .

An issue was angled runs with multiple fillers and sinks that were pulled 3 inches foward .

Do you use a different linear rate for these kitchen styles ?
cabinet runner is offline  
Old 03-29-2010, 05:08 PM   #6
Pro
 
rselectric1's Avatar
 
Trade: Licensed Electrical Contractor and Remodeler
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Chicago Suburbs
Posts: 11,782
Rewards Points: 876

Re: Pricing Cabinet Install


[quote=cabinet runner;908313]
Quote:
Originally Posted by rselectric1 View Post
I charge by linear foot.


I stopped using this method years ago when I felt I got burned a couple of times .

Salepeople just weren't looking at cetain variables . I felt the linear foot method made them lazy .

With my price sheet now , they had better count everything becuase they know I am and it is in writing .

An issue was angled runs with multiple fillers and sinks that were pulled 3 inches foward .

Do you use a different linear rate for these kitchen styles ?
I almost always use custom cabs so rarely any filler is needed. If you mean fluted pilasters, etc. I don't charge extra for them if they are already applied. I always use the long measurement (usually the wall) on angled cabs.

Of course this is only the price for the install itself. Just setting cabinets and putting up crown.
__________________
220...221...whatever it takes!
rselectric1 is offline  
Old 04-06-2010, 09:11 AM   #7
Podcasting and New Media
 
JamesDibben's Avatar
 
Trade: Cabinet Installer
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Kansas City, MO
Posts: 139
Rewards Points: 75

Re: Pricing Cabinet Install


I charged per piece for several years before someone taught me how to charge using the first suggestion above.

I've since developed a way to price both easily.

I first price the old way, almost exactly as Cabinet Runner explains, then I take that final number and put it in a custom spread sheet that converts it over to time, material, overhead and profit margin.

By pricing it both ways you get a chance to see it the way you are familiar and you also get to see how your business is impacted.

The biggest advantage of converting it to hours is the obvious. You can see how many hours you just gave yourself to get it done. That will help you catch any counts you may have gotten wrong.

If you would like for me to post an example just let me know and I'll show you one I've done recently.
JamesDibben is offline  
Old 04-06-2010, 10:54 AM   #8
Pro
 
mikeswoods's Avatar
 
Trade: interior remodeling
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Kane Co. Illinois
Posts: 2,716
Rewards Points: 2,664

Re: Pricing Cabinet Install


Any pricing and estimating help is welcome!!!!!!!!!!

I'd like to see how you do it.--Mike--
mikeswoods is offline  
Old 04-07-2010, 11:06 PM   #9
Podcasting and New Media
 
JamesDibben's Avatar
 
Trade: Cabinet Installer
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Kansas City, MO
Posts: 139
Rewards Points: 75

Re: Pricing Cabinet Install


Well, here's what I like to teach.

Your bid 'tree' should mirror your P&L/Income statement. Whatever expenses are generated solely from the labor of actually doing the work should be considered a cost of goods sold. Labor, fuel, work comp, liability, matching taxes. None of these should be in your overhead. Anything that goes up as a direct result of actually doing a job stays OUT of your overhead percentage. The less you have in your overhead and the more you can move to your cost of goods sold category the more accurate your bid will be.

So, I just sent my guys out to install a kitchen. This kitchen is a 40 mile round trip and our truck gets around 10mpg and fuel around here is about $2.50 a gallon but back when fuel was really heading up I compensated for that in my pricing and charge $5.00. This is a great way of keeping rising fuel prices from ever hurting your business. It never hurt mine. Ok, so, right now I have a cost of $20.00 figured in my quote.

This job is going to take my guys 5hrs to install. How do I know that? Because that's what they are going to get paid, no matter how long it takes them. They will probably get it done in 4 but I'll still pay them 5. In the past they would have taken 6 and my budget would get blown. This way of doing it they stay nice and motivated. Ok, so two guys at 5hrs and I have $135.00 in labor. You NEVER want to forget your three biggest expenses AFTER direct labor. That's work comp, liability and matching taxes. For my specific business that's about 14% so now I add on $18.90 and we have a grand total of $173.90 of expenses on this job. All that's left is to run that through my overhead and profit margin.

The beauty of all of this is I now have a budget customized to this job. I'll hit it to the penny.

Does that make sense?
JamesDibben is offline  
Old 04-08-2010, 05:13 AM   #10
Pro
 
PA woodbutcher's Avatar
 
Trade: Remodeling
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Northeast, Pa
Posts: 1,965
Rewards Points: 1,000

Re: Pricing Cabinet Install


Quote:
Originally Posted by jdibben View Post
Well, here's what I like to teach.

Your bid 'tree' should mirror your P&L/Income statement. Whatever expenses are generated solely from the labor of actually doing the work should be considered a cost of goods sold. Labor, fuel, work comp, liability, matching taxes. None of these should be in your overhead. Anything that goes up as a direct result of actually doing a job stays OUT of your overhead percentage. The less you have in your overhead and the more you can move to your cost of goods sold category the more accurate your bid will be.

So, I just sent my guys out to install a kitchen. This kitchen is a 40 mile round trip and our truck gets around 10mpg and fuel around here is about $2.50 a gallon but back when fuel was really heading up I compensated for that in my pricing and charge $5.00. This is a great way of keeping rising fuel prices from ever hurting your business. It never hurt mine. Ok, so, right now I have a cost of $20.00 figured in my quote.

This job is going to take my guys 5hrs to install. How do I know that? Because that's what they are going to get paid, no matter how long it takes them. They will probably get it done in 4 but I'll still pay them 5. In the past they would have taken 6 and my budget would get blown. This way of doing it they stay nice and motivated. Ok, so two guys at 5hrs and I have $135.00 in labor. You NEVER want to forget your three biggest expenses AFTER direct labor. That's work comp, liability and matching taxes. For my specific business that's about 14% so now I add on $18.90 and we have a grand total of $173.90 of expenses on this job. All that's left is to run that through my overhead and profit margin.

The beauty of all of this is I now have a budget customized to this job. I'll hit it to the penny.

Does that make sense?
It makes sense to me, but:

I usually figure by the mile...and that varies depending on road condition and how fast the road can be traveled.

As far as your labor cost....You should give your guys a little slack. If you paid them a little better than 13.50 an hour they may be motivated to make you money.
__________________
When you rob Peter to pay Paul, chances are pretty good you will receive Paul's vote. Apparently the object of the game is to create more Pauls than Peters....What happens when the Peters can no longer support the Pauls? .
PA woodbutcher is offline  
Old 04-08-2010, 06:31 AM   #11
Pro
 
cabinet runner's Avatar
 
Trade: cabinet installer
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Southern Maryland
Posts: 183
Rewards Points: 150

Re: Pricing Cabinet Install


Quote:
Originally Posted by PA woodbutcher View Post
It makes sense to me, but:
As far as your labor cost....You should give your guys a little slack. If you paid them a little better than 13.50 an hour they may be motivated to make you money.
I don't want to be to hard on the guys labor price as I don't know his area. I have to pay at least $20.00 if I want anything more than just a laborer .

Then again I no longer have a fulltime helper due to my work load .
I'll take 2 days on a normal 1 day install if I have nothing else for the next day or I'll stay late in neccesary . It has really helped keep costs down though it's hard on me physically .

I have a guy who will come by when he gets off work and help me with large vanity tops ect and get all the trash in the dumpster . At 1st I carried a 73 inch cultred marble vanity top up the stairs . I only did that one time . I value my nuts and I felt like I may have a stroke. getting old sucks .

I have to pay him $25.00 an hour but on average he is there for 1 1'2 hours . I usually pay him $50.00 minimum to make it worth his time to drive over once he gets off work .
cabinet runner is offline  
Old 04-08-2010, 08:00 AM   #12
Podcasting and New Media
 
JamesDibben's Avatar
 
Trade: Cabinet Installer
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Kansas City, MO
Posts: 139
Rewards Points: 75

Re: Pricing Cabinet Install


Thanks for the conversation guys!

That $13.50 was just an example actually. Also, in our area this is a very common rate of pay. Not very good, is it.

I was wrong about the hours and the job they did yesterday. It was a 6hr job and they got it done in 3 so if I were paying them $13.00 they would have made $26.00/hr for the day. Like I said, my budget stayed on and they made pretty good money for 3hrs of work. Tomorrow they will be doing a tear out and move a few of those cabinets to another wall. I'm giving them 6hrs again but they'll have it done in a couple. They consistently double their pay like this.

We have quoted a TON of prevailing wage work this year. Some of it pays $47.00 an hour.

That was easy to bid using this formula. I didn't have to figure out how $13.00 per piece translates over to a $47.00 labor expense.

My guys want to land this work.....BAD!
JamesDibben is offline  
Old 04-08-2010, 08:15 AM   #13
Pro
 
mikeswoods's Avatar
 
Trade: interior remodeling
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Kane Co. Illinois
Posts: 2,716
Rewards Points: 2,664

Re: Pricing Cabinet Install


JDIBBEN---Thanks for the insight-----it's always helpful to see how others do the estimates.

I use a system similar to Rons (rselectric). I actually do most jobs 3 ways -just to check my numbers.

I first do a quick estimated labor time(man hours)--Materials--and costs-fuel-garbage-tools-sales time-


Then I'll check this with an average cost based on past work--LF. of cabinets--trim--plumbing rough-electrical(number of openings) and other typical costs.


When the job is complete I'll do a recap to see if I was close on times and materials-(or just kidding my self)--I don't do the recaps as often as I should---Sometimes the truth hurts---

The recent years of tight bids has made the recaps a very sobering experience--I've actually been forced to raise prices on just about every phase of a job,

Every job has to pay for itself now--I can't do any losers-I can no longer shrug off a badly bid job and cover the loss with the next job.

---Mike---
mikeswoods is offline  
Old 04-08-2010, 08:33 AM   #14
Podcasting and New Media
 
JamesDibben's Avatar
 
Trade: Cabinet Installer
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Kansas City, MO
Posts: 139
Rewards Points: 75

Re: Pricing Cabinet Install


That's good stuff Mike!

It's nice to hear other contractors doing the exact same thing I am.

I have had to raise my prices in the last year too so I can maintain my viability.

Here's a quick story that I hope is worth your valued time.

I lost a large job last year. It was an apartment building. It was somewhere around 50 kitchens. They were going to remodel 5 kitchens a week. They wanted a cabinet installer that would be able to install 5 kitchens on the last two days of the week. I bid it and came in around $500.00 a kitchen. Believe me, that's a bargain because you know just leveling the cabinets was going to be a nightmare.

Well, the customer set his cabinet install budget at $175.00 a kitchen. He didn't like my numbers so called a competitor of mine. My competitor didn't even ask for a drawing. He just took the job.

Well, he did 6 a week. There is no way he made money on that. He had to work himself to death.

At that same time we were doing brand new duplexes that paid $500.00 per side and we could do both sides in one day.

I don't know how he's going to stay in business taking work on like that.
JamesDibben is offline  
Old 04-08-2010, 09:08 AM   #15
Pro
 
mikeswoods's Avatar
 
Trade: interior remodeling
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Kane Co. Illinois
Posts: 2,716
Rewards Points: 2,664

Re: Pricing Cabinet Install


I've been foolish enough to to do some-"I just need a paycheck" jobs. Every time I've bitten on one of those
some tool has failed--tire went flat--It's like a curse follows me.
(I hear the ghost of my mother,"Well,What did you expect!")

New guys(and gals)--Do those job recaps--Save the folders--they will help with future bids.

None of us can take any financial hits -------Mike-----
mikeswoods is offline  
Old 04-09-2010, 10:41 PM   #16
Youngster
 
Cache's Avatar
 
Trade: Builder / Consultant / Designer
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Northern Utah
Posts: 493
Rewards Points: 344

Re: Pricing Cabinet Install


Quote:
Originally Posted by pdxjobs View Post
We are installing cabinets in a commercial building. How would you price such a job?
Time or number of cabinets or something else?
I design and install all my cabs custom. My software builds in a markup for each cab. If the cab has crown then the software marks up the crown. I build the job virtually and then I know that nothing was missed.
Cache is offline  
Old 04-10-2010, 08:05 AM   #17
Podcasting and New Media
 
JamesDibben's Avatar
 
Trade: Cabinet Installer
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Kansas City, MO
Posts: 139
Rewards Points: 75

Re: Pricing Cabinet Install


My dad owns a custom cabinet company as well.

What software do you use?
JamesDibben is offline  
Old 04-10-2010, 11:07 AM   #18
Project Manager HFH..
 
JumboJack's Avatar
 
Trade: GC
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Lakewood CA.
Posts: 3,711
Rewards Points: 2,004

Re: Pricing Cabinet Install


When I price a job that includes a cabinet install I price it like every other thing I do.
How long will it take?How many people will it take to do it?Materials needed?
Add all that together + overhead and profit = install price.
__________________
in texas with framing and cornish people will do it for 3.00 a foot. What do yall think about that? Just laber
JumboJack is offline  
Old 04-11-2010, 10:02 PM   #19
Youngster
 
Cache's Avatar
 
Trade: Builder / Consultant / Designer
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Northern Utah
Posts: 493
Rewards Points: 344

Re: Pricing Cabinet Install


Quote:
Originally Posted by jdibben View Post
My dad owns a custom cabinet company as well.

What software do you use?
Currently Ecabinets. Have used cabinet vision too, but I don't own a CNC and my best CNC shop uses a Thermwood router. They work really well with ecabinets because it was written by Thermwood specifically for their routers.

Advertisement

Cache is offline  


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Window and siding pricing BDiamond Marketing & Sales 39 01-13-2010 06:46 AM
Vinyl Wallpaper Pricing KC Conte New Member Introductions 3 12-23-2009 04:13 PM
Restoration Hardware C-top install Greg Di Kitchens & Baths 12 09-15-2009 10:34 PM
Cabinet install made easy Gus Dering Finish Carpentry 40 03-06-2009 05:04 PM
What customers DON'T see!! Warning post contains pricing info! wizendwizard Flooring 31 10-10-2008 05:33 PM

Join Now... It's Fast and FREE!

I am a professional contractor
I am a DIY Homeowner
Drywall Talk is for
PROFESSIONAL CONTRACTORS ONLY!

At DrywallTalk.com we cater exlusivly to professional contractors who make their living as a contractor. Knowing that many homeowners and DIYers are looking for a community to call home, we've created www.DIYChatroom.com DIY Chatroom is full of helpful advices and perfect for DIY homeowners.

Redirecing in 10 seconds
No Thanks
terms of service

Already Have an Account?