Need Help Keeping Nice Lady In A Bathtub From Crashing Into The Dining Room Below... - Carpentry - Contractor Talk

Need Help Keeping Nice Lady In A Bathtub From Crashing Into The Dining Room Below...

 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 08-10-2010, 07:07 PM   #1
Pro
 
Panzer5's Avatar
 
Trade: Remodeling
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 267
Rewards Points: 254

Need Help Keeping Nice Lady In A Bathtub From Crashing Into The Dining Room Below...


Pictures included...

(of the problem).

Need some creativity / more experience here. After the plumbers got through, I've been left with one top-notched joist with two nearby notches through the bottom 1/3 of the lumber - both within a few inches of each other, the adjacent joist with a gaping notch through the bottom 1/3 of the lumber, etc. They all run directly under the tub...

Situation is a bathroom remodel of a 70-80 YO home. Bath is on the second floor, dining room directly below. Plumbing for the original bath ran part way through the mud bed & tile, partway through the floor joists. Old plumbing was clogged & degraded lead / galvanized & we decided to redo all the plumbing...

The images are taken from below. Joists are 2x8's, partly obscured by the supports for the mudbed. In the first photo, you can see where the original plumbers notched the top and bottom of the joist under the drain. The adjacent joist was similarly bottom notched (obscured by ceiling).

The second photo pretty much speaks for itself.


So the question is - (short of lowering the ceiling) - how can I properly support / buttress these joists to keep the nice lady from falling through the floor the first time she bathes after we finish the remodel?

I've looked at Simpson's website, but can't figure out which strap(s) I need to fix the problem...

Other suggestions appreciated!
Attached Thumbnails
Need help keeping nice lady in a bathtub from crashing into the dining room below...-old-plumbing1.jpg   Need help keeping nice lady in a bathtub from crashing into the dining room below...-new-plumbing1.jpg  
__________________
Scott (the ex-grunt-tanker-jarhead guy)

Last edited by Panzer5; 08-10-2010 at 07:11 PM.
Panzer5 is offline  

Warning: The topics covered on this site include activities in which there exists the potential for serious injury or death. ContractorTalk.com DOES NOT guarantee the accuracy or completeness of any information contained on this site. Always use proper safety precaution and reference reliable outside sources before attempting any construction or remodeling task!

   

Advertisement

 

Old 08-10-2010, 07:11 PM   #2
Handle It!
 
MALCO.New.York's Avatar
 
Trade: Everything The Union Guys Do Not Want To Do
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Brooklyn, NY ~ Haverford, PA
Posts: 9,588
Rewards Points: 2,000

Re: Need Help Keeping Nice Lady In A Bathtub From Crashing Into The Dining Room Below...


Hydrofluoric Acid is certainly out of the question............


+ YouTube Video
ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LM7Vsg_7WkU

Advertisement

__________________
Something to One may be Nothing to another!

Ultimate Wisdom---------
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OW-cnizLDEE
MALCO.New.York is offline  
Old 08-10-2010, 07:24 PM   #3
I like Green things
 
WarnerConstInc.'s Avatar
 
Trade: Architectural Mill Work
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: In a van, down by the river. Auburn, IN
Posts: 22,835
Rewards Points: 5,498

Re: Need Help Keeping Nice Lady In A Bathtub From Crashing Into The Dining Room Below...


You needed a plumber that didnt take the easy route.
__________________
Warner Mill Works
Facebook
YouTube
WarnerConstInc. is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 08-10-2010, 07:32 PM   #4
Curmudgeon
 
neolitic's Avatar
 
Trade: carpentry/remodeling/"Yes M'am we do"
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Beech Grove, Indiana, Birthplace of the "King of Cool"
Posts: 11,706
Rewards Points: 2,000

Re: Need Help Keeping Nice Lady In A Bathtub From Crashing Into The Dining Room Below...


Too bad there wasn't a plan
before the joist were completely destroyed.
I'd start by tearing out the plumbing.
Then restructuring the joist.
Then routing the plumbing over,
or at least near the wall.
__________________
Put your location in your profile!
(Sorry....it seems there really are dumb questions)

Last edited by neolitic; 08-10-2010 at 07:34 PM.
neolitic is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to neolitic For This Useful Post:
thom (08-11-2010)
Old 08-10-2010, 07:33 PM   #5
Pro
 
iHandy's Avatar
 
Trade: (reformed) Small Projects Contractor
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Toronto
Posts: 121
Rewards Points: 75

Re: Need Help Keeping Nice Lady In A Bathtub From Crashing Into The Dining Room Below...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Panzer5 View Post
Pictures included...

I've looked at Simpson's website, but can't figure out which strap(s) I need to fix the problem...

Other suggestions appreciated!
No strap will fix this problem.

Sister the joists

Re-routing makes sense. Can the drain go down through the wall cavity? If not, then a bulkhead...

Last edited by iHandy; 08-10-2010 at 07:36 PM. Reason: add more useful information
iHandy is offline  
Old 08-10-2010, 07:52 PM   #6
Pro
 
Panzer5's Avatar
 
Trade: Remodeling
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 267
Rewards Points: 254

Re: Need Help Keeping Nice Lady In A Bathtub From Crashing Into The Dining Room Below...


Quote:
Originally Posted by iHandy View Post
No strap will fix this problem.

...
Yeah, I figured as much.

I'd looked at these ( metwood reinforcers but they're all for those with the forethought...

I'd left instructions for the plumber that any cuts he made needed to be properly reinforced - but didn't expect what I got (this all happened while I was off site on another install). I just about lost it when I saw this.

I'm having them pull the drainpipe anyway - since it has ZERO fall. I guess I can try to fix this with something like the metwood reinforcers.

* Sistering won't work - already rejected that - because the sisters would be identically weak.
__________________
Scott (the ex-grunt-tanker-jarhead guy)
Panzer5 is offline  
Old 08-10-2010, 07:54 PM   #7
Pro
 
alboston's Avatar
 
Trade: General Contractor
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Duxbury/Marthas Vineyard
Posts: 631
Rewards Points: 680

Re: Need Help Keeping Nice Lady In A Bathtub From Crashing Into The Dining Room Below...


I agree on the above comments, cut out plumbing, sister in new joists and reroute plumbing. The plumber should know better.
alboston is offline  
Old 08-10-2010, 08:01 PM   #8
Pro
 
KennMacMoragh's Avatar
 
Trade: Repair/Remodel
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 3,902
Rewards Points: 3,262

Re: Need Help Keeping Nice Lady In A Bathtub From Crashing Into The Dining Room Below...


I agree with sistering the joists. Pipe should be re-done and placed in the center of the joist too. Notch in top looks too big which would be a code violation, check your code book.
KennMacMoragh is offline  
Old 08-10-2010, 08:02 PM   #9
Maker of fine kindling
 
Gus Dering's Avatar
 
Trade: cabinet maker
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Santa Rosa CA
Posts: 6,199
Rewards Points: 12,490

Re: Need Help Keeping Nice Lady In A Bathtub From Crashing Into The Dining Room Below...


Why can't the drain go in the wall next to the trap?
__________________
Every parent who has walked barefoot into their child's room late at night hates Legos
Gus Dering is offline  
Old 08-10-2010, 08:08 PM   #10
Pro
 
Panzer5's Avatar
 
Trade: Remodeling
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 267
Rewards Points: 254

Re: Need Help Keeping Nice Lady In A Bathtub From Crashing Into The Dining Room Below...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Gus Dering View Post
Why can't the drain go in the wall next to the trap?
There is no internal wall below the trap. It would have to go down the exterior wall, which is uninsulated. While I'll admit I am not as well educated on plumbing issues as I should be, I've always heard that plumbing in an exterior wall in a freezing zone is a no-no. (Although, since water doesn't stand in the drain pipe - I guess it wouldn't be as problematic as if the supply were there...).
__________________
Scott (the ex-grunt-tanker-jarhead guy)
Panzer5 is offline  
Old 08-10-2010, 08:12 PM   #11
Pro
 
Panzer5's Avatar
 
Trade: Remodeling
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 267
Rewards Points: 254

Re: Need Help Keeping Nice Lady In A Bathtub From Crashing Into The Dining Room Below...


Re: sistering;

I'm okay with sistering the joists - so long as we can re-route the drain pipe. But sistering around the problem won't work. I don't even mind them re-running water service through after I sister the joists with whole lumber - so long as they don't drill through the bottom 1/3 of the joists.

But see the above comment; the only other route for the drain is down the outside wall...
__________________
Scott (the ex-grunt-tanker-jarhead guy)
Panzer5 is offline  
Old 08-10-2010, 08:17 PM   #12
Remodeling GC
 
kevjob's Avatar
 
Trade: Remodeling General Contractor
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Denver Colorado
Posts: 2,707
Rewards Points: 2,084

Re: Need Help Keeping Nice Lady In A Bathtub From Crashing Into The Dining Room Below...


I hope you didn't pay the plumber. They are requried to know how and where to drill the joists. unbelievable.
kevjob is online now  
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to kevjob For This Useful Post:
dprimc (08-12-2010), thom (08-11-2010), Tom M (08-10-2010)
Old 08-10-2010, 08:19 PM   #13
New Quirky Carpenter
 
William James's Avatar
 
Trade: Trim Carpentry and Remodeling
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 1,341
Rewards Points: 538

Re: Need Help Keeping Nice Lady In A Bathtub From Crashing Into The Dining Room Below...


Wow!!!
First, boots won't fix that. 2nd, those guys aren't licensed. Anyone can buy a crimper at home cheapo and call themselves a plumber. All the plumbers I know use expandable aqua pex. Those holes for the pex are uneven, fine. But their on the bottom 3rd of the joist. And is that a 3 1/2" hole for 1 1/2" pipe. 2 7/16" is really the max hole size for 2x8's, but you don't even need more than 2 1/8" tops. It doesn't look like it will drain either.

Definitely sister up some joists. And fire them and get someone else. Really should of fixed the joists first.
__________________
Guilford, CT Remodeler and Carpenter Web-site [email protected]
Facebook
The great use of life is to spend it for something that will outlast it.

Last edited by William James; 08-10-2010 at 08:23 PM.
William James is offline  
Old 08-10-2010, 08:21 PM   #14
Maker of fine kindling
 
Gus Dering's Avatar
 
Trade: cabinet maker
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Santa Rosa CA
Posts: 6,199
Rewards Points: 12,490

Re: Need Help Keeping Nice Lady In A Bathtub From Crashing Into The Dining Room Below...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Panzer5 View Post
There is no internal wall below the trap. It would have to go down the exterior wall, which is uninsulated. While I'll admit I am not as well educated on plumbing issues as I should be, I've always heard that plumbing in an exterior wall in a freezing zone is a no-no. (Although, since water doesn't stand in the drain pipe - I guess it wouldn't be as problematic as if the supply were there...).
If it was so cold out that the water draining from that tub froze harder than a honeymoon peter, I'd say there will be bigger fish to fry.

Plus you would have the chance to get some insulation in there when it's open, right?
__________________
Every parent who has walked barefoot into their child's room late at night hates Legos
Gus Dering is offline  
Old 08-10-2010, 08:23 PM   #15
Pro
 
Mike Finley's Avatar
 
Trade: Bathroom Remodeling
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Littleton, Colorado
Posts: 14,078
Rewards Points: 2,000

Re: Need Help Keeping Nice Lady In A Bathtub From Crashing Into The Dining Room Below...


You need to get another plumber from craigslist.

Anybody who penetrates a joist should know the code, there is no excuse of "I'm just a plumber, or I'm just an electrician", if you are going to penetrate joists and studs you better take responsibility for doing it right.

What a mess that is.
Mike Finley is offline  
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Mike Finley For This Useful Post:
MAD Renovations (08-10-2010), olligator (08-11-2010)
Old 08-10-2010, 08:25 PM   #16
I like Green things
 
WarnerConstInc.'s Avatar
 
Trade: Architectural Mill Work
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: In a van, down by the river. Auburn, IN
Posts: 22,835
Rewards Points: 5,498

Re: Need Help Keeping Nice Lady In A Bathtub From Crashing Into The Dining Room Below...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Gus Dering View Post
harder than a honeymoon peter



We always used to say stiffer then a wedding d*ck.
__________________
Warner Mill Works
Facebook
YouTube
WarnerConstInc. is online now  
Old 08-10-2010, 08:25 PM   #17
New Quirky Carpenter
 
William James's Avatar
 
Trade: Trim Carpentry and Remodeling
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 1,341
Rewards Points: 538

Re: Need Help Keeping Nice Lady In A Bathtub From Crashing Into The Dining Room Below...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Panzer5 View Post
There is no internal wall below the trap. It would have to go down the exterior wall, which is uninsulated. While I'll admit I am not as well educated on plumbing issues as I should be, I've always heard that plumbing in an exterior wall in a freezing zone is a no-no. (Although, since water doesn't stand in the drain pipe - I guess it wouldn't be as problematic as if the supply were there...).
could build a chase
__________________
Guilford, CT Remodeler and Carpenter Web-site [email protected]
Facebook
The great use of life is to spend it for something that will outlast it.
William James is offline  
Old 08-10-2010, 08:28 PM   #18
Professional Instigator
 
rbsremodeling's Avatar
 
Trade: Design Build Remodeling Contractor DC MD
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Washington, DC/ Maryland
Posts: 6,872
Rewards Points: 2,000

Re: Need Help Keeping Nice Lady In A Bathtub From Crashing Into The Dining Room Below...


There is actually a bracket made for that.. I can not for the life of me remember who makes it..

It has the notch for the pipe and nails to the bottom of the joists..

I thought I saw a picture of the product here once before..
__________________

rbsremodeling is offline  
Old 08-10-2010, 08:29 PM   #19
Pro
 
Panzer5's Avatar
 
Trade: Remodeling
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 267
Rewards Points: 254

Re: Need Help Keeping Nice Lady In A Bathtub From Crashing Into The Dining Room Below...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Finley
You need to get another plumber from craigslist.
At this point, I wish I'd gotten these guys from craigslist. Then I could just punch myself in the head for being stupid.

Silly me, I went with a large, respected (& well insured) company in town. Service manager is easy to get along with - and responsive - but it seems the guy he sent is a hack. He's definately not coming out on any future jobs.
__________________
Scott (the ex-grunt-tanker-jarhead guy)
Panzer5 is offline  
Old 08-10-2010, 08:33 PM   #20
Pro
 
Mike Finley's Avatar
 
Trade: Bathroom Remodeling
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Littleton, Colorado
Posts: 14,078
Rewards Points: 2,000

Re: Need Help Keeping Nice Lady In A Bathtub From Crashing Into The Dining Room Below...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Panzer5 View Post
At this point, I wish I'd gotten these guys from craigslist. Then I could just punch myself in the head for being stupid.

Silly me, I went with a large, respected (& well insured) company in town. Service manager is easy to get along with - and responsive - but it seems the guy he sent is a hack. He's definately not coming out on any future jobs.

Large plumbing company smells like a service company, do they spend most of their time snaking drains and such? That would explain a lot.

Advertisement

Mike Finley is offline  



Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Heating new Family Room w/ gas fireplace? Slowtrawl HVAC 56 06-20-2010 05:50 AM
here's a painting price list...... Jer44 General Discussion 9 02-17-2009 08:30 AM
Dining Room Fixture CPETRO Electrical 10 11-25-2007 11:01 PM
Dining room ceiling fan jbfan Electrical 39 08-20-2007 08:08 PM
Creating new dining room Floorwizard Flooring Picture Post 5 11-18-2003 06:12 PM

Join Now... It's Fast and FREE!

I am a professional contractor
I am a DIY Homeowner
Drywall Talk is for
PROFESSIONAL CONTRACTORS ONLY!

At DrywallTalk.com we cater exlusivly to professional contractors who make their living as a contractor. Knowing that many homeowners and DIYers are looking for a community to call home, we've created www.DIYChatroom.com DIY Chatroom is full of helpful advices and perfect for DIY homeowners.

Redirecing in 10 seconds
No Thanks
terms of service

Already Have an Account?