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Effects Of Aerial Lifts On Production

 
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Old 06-01-2015, 11:24 PM   #1
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Effects Of Aerial Lifts On Production


Seeking input on how much production is effected when working on projects with limited access that require all work be preformed from a two man boom lift. I am expecting about a 50% decrease in production from my crew on a upcoming job which will require the use of 80 ft lifts. We are replacing approximately 1000 lf of fascia on a historic building at the local college. In the past we have worked from 40ft lifts on other jobs and I noticed about a 20% decrease in my crews output. Anyone with much experience in working from a 80 ft lift have a comparison, 50% seems like a lot to me?


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Old 06-02-2015, 12:11 AM   #2
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Re: Effects Of Aerial Lifts On Production


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Seeking input on how much production is effected when working on projects with limited access that require all work be preformed from a two man boom lift. I am expecting about a 50% decrease in production from my crew on a upcoming job which will require the use of 80 ft lifts. We are replacing approximately 1000 lf of fascia on a historic building at the local college. In the past we have worked from 40ft lifts on other jobs and I noticed about a 20% decrease in my crews output. Anyone with much experience in working from a 80 ft lift have a comparison, 50% seems like a lot to me?


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I find my production soars when using a boom. I can get twice as much work done, especially after I get a game plan going.

Painting is however didn't from carpentry though.

When I was doing a tilt up a few years ago, the carpenters would have 4-8 measurements ready for the ground guy to cut. When the boom guy was installing the ground guy would get a stack of boards prepped to be measured and cut.

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Old 06-02-2015, 05:05 AM   #3
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Re: Effects Of Aerial Lifts On Production


We use lifts for framing high roofs. Compared to scaffolding, they are a dream. How do you figure they decrease productivity. The extra height will slow you down some, but climbing up and down scaffold all day wears out the guys and gets dangerous if you have to carry anything.
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Old 06-02-2015, 07:32 AM   #4
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Re: Effects Of Aerial Lifts On Production


I agree with these guys, I don't see how using one decreases production. I have a 40 foot one , it has saved me so much time on jobs. You are not wasting time on set up and the safety factor along it so much better. Anytime I can use mine it gets used.
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Old 06-02-2015, 09:54 AM   #5
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Re: Effects Of Aerial Lifts On Production


I don't think that you can accurately make the comparison in percentages because it's an "apples and pizza" type of comparison. Essentially it becomes a different type of task.

One thing that people who work in the office don't understand is that there's more to doing work high up in the air other than the worker just getting himself up there. You have to take into account that you have tools, supplies, equipment, etc. that has to be up there at the same time.

I'm sure that we've all heard the statement that goes, "Is there any way that you can use a ladder?" when you put the cost of a lift into your quote.
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Old 06-02-2015, 10:11 AM   #6
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Re: Effects Of Aerial Lifts On Production


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Originally Posted by tedanderson View Post
I don't think that you can accurately make the comparison in percentages because it's an "apples and pizza" type of comparison. Essentially it becomes a different type of task.

One thing that people who work in the office don't understand is that there's more to doing work high up in the air other than the worker just getting himself up there. You have to take into account that you have tools, supplies, equipment, etc. that has to be up there at the same time.

I'm sure that we've all heard the statement that goes, "Is there any way that you can use a ladder?" when you put the cost of a lift into your quote.
Incredibly true. But sometimes a lift is easier, safer, faster, etc.

It's the risk/reward factor
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Old 06-04-2015, 10:34 PM   #7
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Re: Effects Of Aerial Lifts On Production


Doing commercial work I have a is amount of time on lifts. I think that a good lift operator is all the difference in tight spaces. Also we use two way radios much faster to communicate 100 foot up. Work ahead so nobody is standing around. It can be fun work but because it is slower you have to try and work smarter
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Old 06-05-2015, 04:40 PM   #8
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Re: Effects Of Aerial Lifts On Production


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Also we use two way radios much faster to communicate 100 foot up. Work ahead so nobody is standing around.
Two way radios save a ton of time, a designated cut man.

a few dead man brackets to hold stuff in place.

depending on the task at hand, I don't think it slows the job much.
if you have to setup staging or even pumps, there's a lot of wasted time.
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Old 06-05-2015, 05:46 PM   #9
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Re: Effects Of Aerial Lifts On Production


Depending on how much this info is worth to you, run an experiment with an 80' lift for a half day or so, simulating the kind of work your guys will be doing.

It's hard to say, but a large difference may become apparent in as little as an hour.
You should probably raise the lift >10 times or do >10 tasks or enough to get a pattern so you don't base your estimate on a fluke.

Also do a Web search. This forum seems to say zero or unpredictable difference.

You may have to try to cancel out the
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawthorne_effect

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Old 06-05-2015, 06:19 PM   #10
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Re: Effects Of Aerial Lifts On Production


You have to keep a little fact in mind that the difference in speeds with a 40 foot boom or Z boom will be faster in position then say an 80 footer, which may take 3 times longer to get in position.

While not really a comparison, when we erect steel buildings, we have a price to 16 foot eve height and 2/12 pitch, and then over that, or increasing pitch, price goes up because of the time the scissor lifts or manlifts are going up or down. It takes twice as long for a lift to go from 20 foot working height as it does from 14 foot. If you count the number of times up and down in a work day, you get the picture. An 80 foot boom takes a while to get up high. Time is money.
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Old 06-06-2015, 08:01 AM   #11
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Re: Effects Of Aerial Lifts On Production


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You have to keep a little fact in mind that the difference in speeds with a 40 foot boom or Z boom will be faster in position then say an 80 footer, which may take 3 times longer to get in position.

While not really a comparison, when we erect steel buildings, we have a price to 16 foot eve height and 2/12 pitch, and then over that, or increasing pitch, price goes up because of the time the scissor lifts or manlifts are going up or down. It takes twice as long for a lift to go from 20 foot working height as it does from 14 foot. If you count the number of times up and down in a work day, you get the picture. An 80 foot boom takes a while to get up high. Time is money.
Exactly but it's still cheaper than renting or having a company come and build scaffolding 80 feet high. Have you ever had the luxury of being in a swing scaffold? That decreases production. If you build scaffold 80' how do you get the material up? A crane? A lull to get it up as high as you can and manpower to get it the rest of the way. Think about it
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Old 06-06-2015, 09:32 PM   #12
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Re: Effects Of Aerial Lifts On Production


So it seems that communication maybe the issue with my guys. I was really trying to compare production to daily framing averages on a flat slab, however it's such a different task it's completely unpractical. Scaffolding is not an option and I won't allow my crews to use scaffold typically as there are so many cost incurred to working safely and efficiently with scaffolding that we always just use lifts. For my company anyway it's just more practical to rent lifts


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Old 06-07-2015, 10:49 AM   #13
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Re: Effects Of Aerial Lifts On Production


So what have you decided to do, and based on what info?

RS Means might have some info on this.

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Old 06-07-2015, 09:20 PM   #14
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Re: Effects Of Aerial Lifts On Production


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Originally Posted by tedanderson View Post
I'm sure that we've all heard the statement that goes, "Is there any way that you can use a ladder?" when you put the cost of a lift into your quote.
that's when you say "sure, I'll remove the cost of lift rental from the quote and replace it with the cost of an OSHA fine."
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Old 06-08-2015, 10:58 PM   #15
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Re: Effects Of Aerial Lifts On Production


Walked it over today with my best lead and the gc which we are bidding with both of which i trust and have good work relations with. Basically just made the best guesstimate we could, I wasn't to far off based on my original calculations and will add a small percent for the unforeseen. Won't have a problem with ladders or OSHA as I like what money I have and more importantly my sleep. My guys work safely or go home no exceptions. Bad conscience from one of my guys getting hurt would end my career.


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Old 06-09-2015, 01:07 PM   #16
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Re: Effects Of Aerial Lifts On Production


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replace it with the cost of an OSHA fine."
FWIW,
the expected cost of a fine is
the likelihood of getting that fine
times how much that fine will be (it's not in OSHA's interest to post that value).

Everybody plays the odds but some are more risk averse than others.
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Old 06-12-2015, 07:25 AM   #17
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Re: Effects Of Aerial Lifts On Production


I've been full boomed on an 80 footer before and it sucks... I would suggest looking at a bigger lift like a 120'. When you get full boom on bigger lifts they move a lot, like will sway 2-3 feet. It does take a long time to get in position on big lifts. Remember the rules:

- Never move a boom lift without being harnessed.
- Always have a ground man in the area (guys have had heart attacks in a man lift and no one was around to find them)
- Never have anyone under the work area (especially working in another lift)
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Old 06-22-2015, 09:06 PM   #18
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Re: Effects Of Aerial Lifts On Production


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I've been full boomed on an 80 footer before and it sucks... I would suggest looking at a bigger lift like a 120'. When you get full boom on bigger lifts they move a lot, like will sway 2-3 feet. It does take a long time to get in position on big lifts. Remember the rules:

- Never move a boom lift without being harnessed.
- Always have a ground man in the area (guys have had heart attacks in a man lift and no one was around to find them)
- Never have anyone under the work area (especially working in another lift)
As soon as you get in an aerial lift, except scissor lifts, OSHA requires the use of a harness. I seen a guy drive one of a curb and get catapulted out of the platform. He had a harness
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Old 06-29-2015, 10:34 PM   #19
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Re: Effects Of Aerial Lifts On Production


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Seeking input on how much production is effected when working on projects with limited access that require all work be preformed from a two man boom lift. I am expecting about a 50% decrease in production from my crew on a upcoming job which will require the use of 80 ft lifts. We are replacing metal buildings approximately 1000 lf of fascia on a historic building at the local college. In the past we have worked from 40ft lifts on other jobs and I noticed about a 20% decrease in my crews output. Anyone with much experience in working from a 80 ft lift have a comparison, 50% seems like a lot to me?


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50% seems like a huge decline to be honest, this doesn't make sense.

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