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HVAC System For Restaurant

 
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Old 01-27-2011, 11:09 PM   #1
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HVAC System For Restaurant


Greetings...

My brothers and I are in the last phases of construction for our restaurant.

Since the very beginning, we had a couple HVAC technicians come and all of them told us not to put any sort of HVAC system in the kitchen area. They stated that the kitchen hood would extract all the cool air and that there was no need for a heating system, since the kitchen equipment would provide radiant heating.

Are there any other alternatives to cooling down a commercial kitchen?
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Old 01-28-2011, 12:27 AM   #2
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Re: HVAC System For Restaurant


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Originally Posted by KEPC View Post
... we had a couple HVAC technicians come and all of them told us not to put any sort of HVAC system in the kitchen area. They stated that the kitchen hood would extract all the cool air and that there was no need for a heating system, since the kitchen equipment would provide radiant heating.

Are there any other alternatives to cooling down a commercial kitchen?
IMO, no. On the cooling & heating there are many hours spent in a kitchen not cooking.

I don't know what your summers & winters are like. You will want some minimal heat for the cold/cooler weather. If you have spent much time in a commercial kitchen in the summer months you will want A/C. Get a good HVAC guy to do the load calcs. Position the registers so that the hood will draw the cool air across the kitchen. The idea will be to keep the summer temp bearable for all who work in there. Good luck.

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Old 01-28-2011, 10:46 PM   #3
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Re: HVAC System For Restaurant


There are HVAC guys who do know how to figure airflow for a kitchen. Keep trying, and ask for references. Did you ask the kitchen designer for suggestions?

I hope you used someone else to design & install the exhaust hoods for you.

CAptive Aire and Greenheck both have hood systems that will cool the cook w/o disrupting the air flow. You will be looking at a perforated intake air, moving about 150 CFM Ask if they will use 4-way diffussers, if they say yes, get someone else.

http://www.captiveaire.com/

http://www.greenheck.com/products/category/6
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Old 01-29-2011, 12:31 AM   #4
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Re: HVAC System For Restaurant


You really need to find a good HVAC guy for this. Does the company that is doing the hood know of any, and did they offer any suggestions.

And by suggestions, did your hood company mention anything about "make-up air" tempered or untempered.

Also if you don't know what make-up air is go to the Greenheck link that was posted earlier and go to the kitchen system make-up air units page.

Even for small kitchens we will have make-up air units installed because as you mentioned it will suck the cool air out and also the heat. It is also sucking the conditioned air out of the whole building, so your HVAC system is working harder than it needs to. And with our new energy code it is almost mandatory or very hard to design without it.
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Old 01-29-2011, 11:32 AM   #5
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Re: HVAC System For Restaurant


Set up supplies on the perimeter of the kitchen (dish pit and wait section) so as the conditioned air passes through the kitchen. Yes, kitchens get real hot during the summer. Around here, swamp coolers are used a lot for kitchens, but it's more arid.
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Old 01-29-2011, 12:06 PM   #6
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Re: HVAC System For Restaurant


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.

Even for small kitchens we will have make-up air units installed because as you mentioned it will suck the cool air out and also the heat. It is also sucking the conditioned air out of the whole building, so your HVAC system is working harder than it needs to. And with our new energy code it is almost mandatory or very hard to design without it.

Kitchen air movement is as much experience and art as following the code. You need to know the appliances, the fuel, the appliance placement, the type of hood, the height of the hood, the dishmachine type, size, placement in the kitchen, the dishmachine hood, the location of interior and exterior doors, pass throughs, and windows, the HVAC requirements of the rest of the building, the location of property lines, other vents and air intakes on hte roof, parapet walls, roof obstructions, prevailing winds.

I take pleasure walking into a kitchen when the low bidder did not take any of the above into consideration and now the kitchen air does not work. The customer asks what can be done. I like to tell them to call the installer back and have him fix the problems.

I take even more pleasure in walking into the kitchen and having the owner tell me my installer did a great job and the kitchen is comfortable to work in. I do not know how to do all the above, but I know a person who does and that person is who I recommend w/o hesitation.
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Old 01-30-2011, 04:13 PM   #7
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Re: HVAC System For Restaurant


thanks for the input....

The HVAC specialists that came did have very reputable resources. In fact, they perform work for many of the universities and school districts. They do most of the mechanical & refrigeration work for the kitchens that are operated by Sodexo and other large catering food service companies.

Perhaps I should clarify, they did offer alternatives, but they still thought it was a waste of money to pursue. In their opinion, most mixused rowhome buildings have to get retrofitted where at times it just doesn't make too much sense. Granted, I am not the expert in HVAC, just conveying what I was being told.

When we demoed and gutted the walls, we found that there was a window. We though they had blocked it up. The hood company wanted us to raise the window, which my brother and I did. We put new lintels on both the window and door.







By this time, we called back some of the HVAC techs and the Hood installers to see if they wanted us to change anything.



We made sure to have access panels in case something ever had to get retrofitted.

The soffit where the ansil system is hooked, also has accessibility in the event that we ever have to run cables or electric to the upper floors, not tot mention that there is the drop down cieling if we ever do decide to run any sort of ductwork.






Since we are not going to use a deep fryer and a broiler.... the only equipemt that will be on all day will be the griddle... the range wont be and the rantionale convection oven wont be either. I just hope that the kitchen won't be too hot in the summer....

We are putting HVAC in the seating area.... one suggestion was to put an air curtain in the hall to separate the kitchen and the sit-in area... and also above the store front door...



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Old 01-30-2011, 10:10 PM   #8
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Re: HVAC System For Restaurant


Nice looking install. I still would have used the perforated make-up air at the front of the hood.
You should have good air movement with the hood overhang, the hood against the corner and the convection oven on the left side.

What is the upside down box at the top of the hood? I see the remote pull is not 10' to 20' from the hood. Maybe PA is not an ICC or NFPA 96 code state. I might have put the pull at the kitchen door.

The air door at the kitchen/dining room and front entry sounds like a good idea.
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Old 01-31-2011, 12:10 AM   #9
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Re: HVAC System For Restaurant


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Nice looking install. I still would have used the perforated make-up air at the front of the hood.
You should have good air movement with the hood overhang, the hood against the corner and the convection oven on the left side.

What is the upside down box at the top of the hood? I see the remote pull is not 10' to 20' from the hood. Maybe PA is not an ICC or NFPA 96 code state. I might have put the pull at the kitchen door.

The air door at the kitchen/dining room and front entry sounds like a good idea.
The box above the hood was added to enclose the hood's ducts. We wanted the kitchen area to look clean and not have a bunch of expose ductwork. It also served to fasten the grids for the drop down ceiling.

The hood installers did mention that the pull station had to be at a certain distance, but that we could get away with it at the particular spot because that was the closest exist.
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Old 01-31-2011, 12:35 PM   #10
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Re: HVAC System For Restaurant


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The hood installers did mention that the pull station had to be at a certain distance, but that we could get away with it at the particular spot because that was the closest exist.
That will work unless you have an inspector who has no common sense. The 10' minimum makes sense when you see a cooking line fire.

Is the red thing a manual pull for the fire alarm? If so, is the Ansul wired to the alarm panel?
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Old 01-31-2011, 11:39 PM   #11
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Re: HVAC System For Restaurant


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That will work unless you have an inspector who has no common sense. The 10' minimum makes sense when you see a cooking line fire.

Is the red thing a manual pull for the fire alarm? If so, is the Ansul wired to the alarm panel?
I agree, it makes all the perfect sense in the world. Living in a old city like Philadelphia where you have housing that is 100-300+ years old and space is limited you have to be creative and find inches where they don't exist. As one inspector said, "code is code, reality is reality"

The red that you see in the picture is actually tape. That was there so no one would flip the switch to the exhaust fan... the wires were fished but not connected up in the roof.
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Old 03-21-2011, 06:13 AM   #12
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Re: HVAC System For Restaurant


Putting A/C in a kitchen is fine. And is done quiet often. Usually just enough to temper the kitchen, not bring it down to 70 when everything is on. Often a kitchen will need 7 plus tons to maintain 70. And instead of installing a 7 ton, a 4 ton is installed to temper the area. Good luck with your restuarant, its a tough business to be in.

You may find later that you need to put some in for the busy days when you have everything going.

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