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Things I Hate (3)

 
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Old 11-30-2019, 10:09 PM   #281
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Re: Things I Hate (3)


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Then he already was morally guilty when he lied while taking his oath.


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Old 11-30-2019, 10:11 PM   #282
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Re: Things I Hate (3)


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I respect that you couldn't be a cop because of your beliefs but are you saying that all cops who are Christians are immoral? The challenge with that is can you name me one profession that doesn't contain that same dichotomy?

Romans 13 (see post #256) makes it clear that we're subject to authority, as it was ordained by God and makes the point regarding conscience...
"Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also as a matter of conscience."
Which is why I, generally, obey laws.

I even follow building codes.

But I would never take an oath to enforce the laws of this country. I haven't found them morally upright.
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Old 11-30-2019, 10:12 PM   #283
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Incidentally, I have good friend who is retired CHP, and he hated his job. Absolutely hated it.

We've talked a lot about this exact subject.

He is a devout Catholic Christian, and he said enforcing laws always bothered his conscience. He believes there should be order and laws, but he didn't agree with many of the ones he enforced, or the whole system of incarceration.

Yet he couldn't and wouldn't allow himself to become the final decision on what laws he would or would not enforce.

It drove him crazy until he finally retired.
So was like every other person in every other profession who has to do things for their job they disagree with... but it highlights the challenge...

So was he immoral or devout in following through on his oath and job requirements until he retired and accepted the money from that same profession?
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Old 11-30-2019, 10:13 PM   #284
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Re: Things I Hate (3)


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Wait a minute... so Cop A thinks a law is moral, and Cop B thinks it's immoral... you think it's fair for either to exercise their own moral authority over the law (as opposed to telling you they agree it's not right, but they don't make the laws they're required to enforce), and their oath and orders not to do so?...



Wouldn't it be more immoral for a cop to operate outside of his employment agreement oath and orders? That exercise could lead to two different people, subject to the same law, being treated differently because the law wasn't enforced the same for both...



Don't we see examples of that nationally and the reason some don't trust the police?
Critical reading KAP

I didnt say they " should " make their own rules

Simply said if it was against their morals they'd be immoral for doing it.

Thanks for those who deal with that dilemma, but it doesnt change the fact
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Old 11-30-2019, 10:13 PM   #285
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Which is why I, generally, obey laws.

I even follow building codes.

But I would never take an oath to enforce the laws of this country. I haven't found them morally upright.
"Generally"...

Gotcha'... I think we're all guilty of that...
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Old 11-30-2019, 10:14 PM   #286
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Re: Things I Hate (3)


I'm hanging it up fellas, see yall on the next one
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Old 11-30-2019, 10:18 PM   #287
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Critical reading KAP

I didnt say they " should " make their own rules

Simply said if it was against their morals they'd be immoral for doing it.

Thanks for those who deal with that dilemma, but it doesnt change the fact
The point I've been making is that does the point of immorality occur when they take the job, swear an oath to uphold the law (not the ones they agree or disagree with) and then have a problem with a law? What if that law went into effect post oath? Does it release them morally from their oath and employment requirements because they don't like the law?

I don't think you can find a profession where that's not an issue... so whether you're talking generally or definitively, we're all immoral...
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Old 11-30-2019, 10:21 PM   #288
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Re: Things I Hate (3)


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I respect that you couldn't be a cop because of your beliefs but are you saying that all cops who are Christians are immoral? The challenge with that is can you name me one profession that doesn't contain that same dichotomy?

Romans 13 (see post #256) makes it clear that we're subject to authority, as it was ordained by God and makes the point regarding conscience...
"Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also as a matter of conscience."
I would never, ever say that Christian cops are immoral.

They will answer to God, not me. And they may very well be innocent before God, because they believe they are serving him.

That same book of Romans tells us not to judge another man's servant.


And the issue of morality comes up in every thing.

I don't work Sundays, except for bona fide emergency service work. My family's restaurants are closed on Sundays, even Mother's Day.

I would not build a mormon temple for example. I would decline the project. Or a strip club.

If my business got big, I would not use my wealth to put another Contractor out of business.

And on and on.

But I'm not going to ask the guy I'm building a house for, if he's ever going to fornicate in the back bedroom.

Not my business.
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Old 11-30-2019, 10:24 PM   #289
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Re: Things I Hate (3)


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I'm hanging it up fellas, see yall on the next one
Thanks for keeping it open, Brother.


This one was a lot more friendly, informative, and intelligent than some others we've had.

Good conversation.
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Old 11-30-2019, 10:38 PM   #290
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The point I've been making is that does the point of immorality occur when they take the job, swear an oath to uphold the law (not the ones they agree or disagree with) and then have a problem with a law? What if that law went into effect post oath? Does it release them morally from their oath and employment requirements because they don't like the law?

I don't think you can find a profession where that's not an issue... so whether you're talking generally or definitively, we're all immoral...
Certainly a complex issue.

Right now, this society needs law enforcement. And I'd much rather it be a Christian Brother, but.....Then there's the dilemma.


There's a story in the New Testament, about a man getting arrested and sent to prison. Some prison guards showed up like normal, like they did every day, and watched the prisoners that were delivered to them to keep. Wasn't their job to know who they were, or what they had done.

But it just so happened that one of those men, was Saint Peter. And it wasn't God's will that he be kept in prison that night, so an Angel let him out.

Next day, the ruler couldn't find his prisoner, so he executed the prison guards.

Bum deal for a guy just doing his job, but that's a possible consequence when you go to work for an evil empire.
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Old 11-30-2019, 10:40 PM   #291
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Re: Things I Hate (3)


I really like listening to Antonin Scalia on an ethicals panel.


https://www.learner.org/vod/vod_window.html?pid=192


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Old 11-30-2019, 10:52 PM   #292
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Exactly and there's nothing wrong with you resigning.

But if a GC told you before you were hired this is the conditions and you took the job anyway then you shouldn't expect him pay for said scaffolding if you want to continue to work for him.


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He can not fire you for refusing to do work on illegal scaffolding. He could take pics and send to OSHA and have them come down and line the GC out with some fines and have OSHA inform him of the laws.
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Old 11-30-2019, 10:57 PM   #293
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He can not fire you for refusing to do work on illegal scaffolding. He could take pics and send to OSHA and have them come down and line the GC out with some fines and have OSHA inform him of the laws.


He didn't say that. He said the GC didn't want to pay for it. Nothing was mentioned about being forced to do something unsafe. Maybe the GC expected a sub to pay for it. But that's going down a different rabbit hole and isn't the point.


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Old 11-30-2019, 11:43 PM   #294
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Re: Things I Hate (3)





Hitting my fingernail just as it finished falling off and growing back from the last time I hit it.


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Old 11-30-2019, 11:49 PM   #295
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Oh man! I saw and read that and winced....
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Old 12-01-2019, 12:00 AM   #296
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Re: Things I Hate (3)




J/K
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Old 12-01-2019, 12:46 AM   #297
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Hitting my fingernail just as it finished falling off and growing back from the last time I hit it.


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new hammer????...

they usually need to eat when first used...
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Old 12-01-2019, 05:51 AM   #298
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Re: Things I Hate (3)


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Hitting my fingernail just as it finished falling off and growing back from the last time I hit it.


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Oh man, I can feel that one just looking at it.

I'm an extremely laid back individual, but hitting my finger with a hammer will usually end with me beating whatever I was hammering into a pulp

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Old 12-01-2019, 08:13 AM   #299
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Oh man, I can feel that one just looking at it.

I'm an extremely laid back individual, but hitting my finger with a hammer will usually end with me beating whatever I was hammering into a pulp

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Yeah, I'm guilty of the same
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Old 12-01-2019, 09:43 AM   #300
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Yeah, I'm guilty of the same
Was a time in my life I was that way, was not a good thing. Had a lot of anger in my life. Thankfully I have over come that.

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