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Reckless NJ Speculation Thread

 
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Old 01-12-2020, 10:51 PM   #1
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Reckless NJ Speculation Thread


Yo, I heard that fire in Bound Brook is an Avalon site.

If that's true, how many times we going to let this happen? Is there a limit to how many complexes you can have burn to the ground before you're not allowed to keep building them?

Obviously we'll withhold our actual judgements until the facts are in, but for now, let's speculate wildly.
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Old 01-12-2020, 11:14 PM   #2
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Re: Reckless NJ Speculation Thread


https://www.reddit.com/r/newjersey/c...d_brook_train/

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Old 01-12-2020, 11:20 PM   #3
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Re: Reckless NJ Speculation Thread


Clue me in. What do you mean by Avalon site?
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Old 01-12-2020, 11:24 PM   #4
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Re: Reckless NJ Speculation Thread


It was the plumber working on a Sunday trying to call for a rough on Monday.
Set fire to the site sweating that CVPC .
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Old 01-12-2020, 11:27 PM   #5
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Re: Reckless NJ Speculation Thread


Maybe it's a labor thing, as in union vs non that he's talking about.
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Old 01-13-2020, 07:19 AM   #6
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Re: Reckless NJ Speculation Thread


Avalon was a housing complex that burned to the ground a few years ago, giant fire. Limited sprinklers all wood construction condos. The code was changed a few years ago and now lots of wood framed condos with no separation, just sprinklers in common areas, are being built everywhere.
Usually 4 stories high and as many as 100 units together, when they burn they burn quick and they all burn
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Old 01-13-2020, 07:25 AM   #7
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Re: Reckless NJ Speculation Thread


https://www.reddit.com/r/newjersey/c...nt_complex_in/
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Old 01-13-2020, 08:28 AM   #8
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Re: Reckless NJ Speculation Thread


Where you going to house all the illegal aliens if you guys tighten up building standards? You can’t have your illegals and eat them too.
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Old 01-13-2020, 08:33 AM   #9
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Re: Reckless NJ Speculation Thread


I'm also convinced that tji's burn faster.
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Old 01-13-2020, 09:42 AM   #10
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Re: Reckless NJ Speculation Thread


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Originally Posted by Easy Gibson View Post
I'm also convinced that tji's burn faster.
They fail faster.
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Old 01-13-2020, 10:50 AM   #11
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Re: Reckless NJ Speculation Thread


Also, there's no amount of scientific data you could show me that would convince me that all the TJI glue isn't going to separate in 15 years, leaving every ceiling built between '10 and now caving in, basically condemning buildings. Assuming I'm right and those horizontal 2x start pulling away from the vertical ply(osb?), what's the fix? You can't just sister those things. You'd have to tear the entire ceiling down and re-run everything. Nightmare.
None of these new developments I've worked in have passed the eye test for me. Cheap cheap cheap and poorly thought out. If I'm in a brand new development and there's stuff happening like closet doors hitting entry doors and upper cabinets being installed at the wrong height, I know that nobody is home as far as design goes and that the same guy that designed the kitchen probably designed the foundation. Additionally, the same inspector probably signed off on the whole thing.
The Free Market is about to have a field day with some of these places I've seen built in Jersey. I'm sure we're not the only ones doing it either.

But yeah, if this is an Avalon project, how many of your projects are allowed to catch fire before you get the corporate death penalty?
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Old 01-13-2020, 10:58 AM   #12
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Re: Reckless NJ Speculation Thread


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Where you going to house all the illegal aliens if you guys tighten up building standards? You can’t have your illegals and eat them too.
If they can afford the $400-$700k price tag they can live there.
These places are not cheap
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Old 01-13-2020, 11:40 AM   #13
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Re: Reckless NJ Speculation Thread


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Also, there's no amount of scientific data you could show me that would convince me that all the TJI glue isn't going to separate in 15 years, leaving every ceiling built between '10 and now caving in, basically condemning buildings. Assuming I'm right and those horizontal 2x start pulling away from the vertical ply(osb?), what's the fix? You can't just sister those things. You'd have to tear the entire ceiling down and re-run everything. Nightmare.
I know you're writing somewhat in jest, but there are glulam beams from the 40s that are doing just fine, and they rely on glue.
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Old 01-13-2020, 12:06 PM   #14
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Re: Reckless NJ Speculation Thread


There is no jest here. I really don't think the TJIs are going to last. They fail the eye test, just like framing trusses on 24" faults to me. Sure enough, 5 years later all these townhouses have wavy roofs and wavy floors. It's just so cheap.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but there's nothing from the 40s relying on glue holding horizontally, is there?
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Old 01-13-2020, 01:23 PM   #15
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Re: Reckless NJ Speculation Thread


Quote:
Originally Posted by Easy Gibson View Post
There is no jest here. I really don't think the TJIs are going to last. They fail the eye test, just like framing trusses on 24" faults to me. Sure enough, 5 years later all these townhouses have wavy roofs and wavy floors. It's just so cheap.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but there's nothing from the 40s relying on glue holding horizontally, is there?
Glulams.

Wavy roofs aren't the fault of 24" OC spacing per se. It's the use of garbage 7/16" OSB on top of that. Commercial buildings are 48. 72, 120, 240" spacing depending on materials.

I do agree, we need to stop building for a ~50 year lifespan.
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Old 01-13-2020, 01:53 PM   #16
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Re: Reckless NJ Speculation Thread


Quote:
Originally Posted by Easy Gibson View Post
Also, there's no amount of scientific data you could show me that would convince me that all the TJI glue isn't going to separate in 15 years, leaving every ceiling built between '10 and now caving in, basically condemning buildings. Assuming I'm right and those horizontal 2x start pulling away from the vertical ply(osb?), what's the fix? You can't just sister those things. You'd have to tear the entire ceiling down and re-run everything. Nightmare.
None of these new developments I've worked in have passed the eye test for me. Cheap cheap cheap and poorly thought out. If I'm in a brand new development and there's stuff happening like closet doors hitting entry doors and upper cabinets being installed at the wrong height, I know that nobody is home as far as design goes and that the same guy that designed the kitchen probably designed the foundation. Additionally, the same inspector probably signed off on the whole thing.
The Free Market is about to have a field day with some of these places I've seen built in Jersey. I'm sure we're not the only ones doing it either.

But yeah, if this is an Avalon project, how many of your projects are allowed to catch fire before you get the corporate death penalty?
Don't worry.
My TJI's have been in place since '92 and my ceiling are still over my head.
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Old 01-13-2020, 04:41 PM   #17
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Re: Reckless NJ Speculation Thread


Our building boom here is INSANE right now for apartment complexes in certain areas. We have a severe lack of rental space and they are flying up in the nicer areas next to the doctor and dental colleges

Just in the past few years they've started allowing osb on walls. Something that was all but gone after Hurricane Andrew. Now they're building 4 and 5 story condo and apartment buildings out of them. I dont know about the numbers but heres what I do know...

Every hurrican relief I've ever done most of the building that are destroyed have osb vertically on them. I know in theory they have as high or a higher shear then plywood, but after being wet, or over shot nails... I dont think so. Its anecdotal, but this osb craze seems like a bad idea to me. Burns faster, swells more, and has shown more signs of failure in my experience.

I just know the big builders around here dont give a ****. Just build it and get paid. It's pretty surprising how many people will pay for absolute **** work that I've seen. We have to be leading the nation in ****tiest work that collects checks.

(But I love them because they create a wonderful market for a few guys like me...)
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Old 01-13-2020, 06:44 PM   #18
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Re: Reckless NJ Speculation Thread


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Originally Posted by Golden view View Post
Glulams.

Wavy roofs aren't the fault of 24" OC spacing per se. It's the use of garbage 7/16" OSB on top of that. Commercial buildings are 48. 72, 120, 240" spacing depending on materials.

I do agree, we need to stop building for a ~50 year lifespan.
You're right there, I did a bad job laying blame for the 24's. The trusses do hold up fine, but the sheathing does indeed sag. Should have put the onus on the builder's specs and not the trusses. My apologies, trusses.
Still don't trust those TJI's though!
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Old 01-13-2020, 06:52 PM   #19
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Re: Reckless NJ Speculation Thread


Quote:
Originally Posted by TimNJ View Post
Don't worry.
My TJI's have been in place since '92 and my ceiling are still over my head.
Your days may be numbered!
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Old 01-13-2020, 07:30 PM   #20
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Re: Reckless NJ Speculation Thread


Even if the glue fails on a i-joist it only matters before installation. The web is the “structure” and the glued on flanges are only there for nails or screws to work their magic. They don’t concern me at all. 7/16” osb on a roof is fine if the pitch is steep enough and you use H clips.

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