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Power Scooters And Skateboards

 
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Old 04-03-2019, 11:17 AM   #21
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Re: Power Scooters And Skateboards


So how's that work for kid's helmets for bikes?

When mopeds came out you had to get a license to drive it in the street, they were speed limited and drivers hated them. Not allowed on the highway, ever. Yet you'd see them there on the shoulder tooling along.

Don't worry, they'll ban cars soon enough then you won't have to worry about the scooters and whatnot.
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Old 04-03-2019, 11:34 AM   #22
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Re: Power Scooters And Skateboards


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So how's that work for kid's helmets for bikes?

When mopeds came out you had to get a license to drive it in the street, they were speed limited and drivers hated them. Not allowed on the highway, ever. Yet you'd see them there on the shoulder tooling along.

Don't worry, they'll ban cars soon enough then you won't have to worry about the scooters and whatnot.
Definitely depends on the state, sometimes on the city. When mopeds came out here in the early 70's, no one cared. few and far between. Gas crisis comes....now there are thousands (remember all in mid to late 70's). Helmets were not a concern for mopeds, bicycles or motorcycles.

The mopeds then didn't really go more than 40mph tops. Out here, legal on all roadways except Freeways. Kinda treated like bicycles. Street riding no problem, ride with traffic, keep to the right. Out here, highways have cross roads, Freeways do not (on ramps and off ramps). No license was needed.

I believe it was helmets for motorcycles first, then helmets for kids on bikes, then helmets for mopeds, then everything else ....but mostly aimed for kids on everything up to motorcycles.
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Old 04-03-2019, 12:08 PM   #23
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Re: Power Scooters And Skateboards


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So how's that work for kid's helmets for bikes?
Same thing. It was a "common sense" feel good response to head injuries, but nobody had done the tough number crunching to see what really would happen. It was finally done a couple years ago.
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Old 04-03-2019, 03:27 PM   #24
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Re: Power Scooters And Skateboards


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For the speeds involved, helmets result in more head injuries. Cases where your head would have hit nothing, the helmet catches it - a bigger target and more torque.
Maybe in cases where your head wouldn't hit, sure but how many cases are there where your head does hit? A lot.

Your head's like a big egg, really easy to crack. A bicycle helmet probably saved my life or helped me avoid a very serious head injury. Long story short I had to jump on the hood of a car, dude turned his head, slammed on the brakes, I went flying and the back of my head, safely ensconced in the helmet, bounced off the street, shattering the helmet but leaving me unharmed. I shudder thinking of what could have been, won't go on a bike without one.
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Old 04-03-2019, 03:47 PM   #25
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Re: Power Scooters And Skateboards


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Maybe in cases where your head wouldn't hit, sure but how many cases are there where your head does hit? A lot.

Your head's like a big egg, really easy to crack. A bicycle helmet probably saved my life or helped me avoid a very serious head injury. Long story short I had to jump on the hood of a car, dude turned his head, slammed on the brakes, I went flying and the back of my head, safely ensconced in the helmet, bounced off the street, shattering the helmet but leaving me unharmed. I shudder thinking of what could have been, won't go on a bike without one.

Injury rates stayed flat or went up after countries enacted helmet laws. Some people are going to be protected, some will be injured.

Public policy issues like this can be difficult to get an answer.

A buddy had an accident back in the 60s driving a convertible. Wasn't wearing a seat belt. He was thrown clear and lived. If he was wearing a belt, He would have died.

Luck of the draw. Seat belts have solid statistical analysis supporting their use, bicycle helmets don't.
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Old 04-03-2019, 05:28 PM   #26
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Re: Power Scooters And Skateboards


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Same thing. It was a "common sense" feel good response to head injuries, but nobody had done the tough number crunching to see what really would happen. It was finally done a couple years ago.
I have a hunch your "number crunching" study might be a lone outlier.
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Old 04-03-2019, 06:42 PM   #27
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Re: Power Scooters And Skateboards


Back when mandatory helmet laws stated being introduced, there were a couple of studies claiming to show 85% reduction in head injuries.

Since then, these studies have been debunked. Exmple from Australia/New Zealand:

https://www.cyclehelmets.org/1241.html

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Summary of head injury data
The data in Figs 1-5 show large increases in helmet wearing, but no major change in %HI, over and above the general trends. These trends may relate to new diagnostic techniques (e.g. CAT scans), changes in admission policies (as in SA), and safer roads (leading to lower impact speeds in collisions, reducing the risk of head injury - Janssen and Wismans, 1985). Thus it seems impossible to conclude from %HI data that helmet laws have any large or significant benefit.
Now look, it doesn't matter which study or source I or anybody else refers to - the next guy will claim they are biased.

What I'm saying is that its been demonstrated that helmets have not reduced injuries to the extent that was claimed.
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Old 04-03-2019, 06:44 PM   #28
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Re: Power Scooters And Skateboards


I'll ask my ER doc buddy. He has no skin in the game, just lots of stories.

I'd probably be a vegetable if it weren't for wearing a hard bike helmet on a forest trail once upon a time. I ran square into a 2" diam. cut branch, hitting the temple area. It knocked me on my butt, but that's about it.

Last edited by MarkJames; 04-03-2019 at 06:48 PM.
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Old 04-03-2019, 07:02 PM   #29
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Re: Power Scooters And Skateboards


It's easy as all get-out to come up with anecdotal stories pro or con, but my personal opinion is that bicycle helmets aren't worth too much except for making you look silly. I lived on my bike as a kid in the boonies, and while I had my fair share of road rash, never had a head injury worth mentioning.

Motorcycles are another story. They go at highway speeds (or more), in the midst of big cars & trucks. I've seen my share of shattered helmets that would have been busted bone otherwise. Won't ride without one.
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Old 04-03-2019, 07:15 PM   #30
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Re: Power Scooters And Skateboards


https://academic.oup.com/ije/article/46/1/278/2617198
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Old 04-03-2019, 08:08 PM   #31
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Re: Power Scooters And Skateboards


People easily go 25 miles an hour or more on scooters and motorized skateboards and a lot faster on bicycles. 25 miles an hour is over 33 feet a second; slam your noggin into something at that rate and serious damage will be done.

Bike helmets might look dorky but they definitely help reduce head injuries.
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Old 04-03-2019, 08:16 PM   #32
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Re: Power Scooters And Skateboards


So do baseball caps.
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Old 04-03-2019, 08:30 PM   #33
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Re: Power Scooters And Skateboards


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I'll ask my ER doc buddy. He has no skin in the game, just lots of stories.

I'd probably be a vegetable if it weren't for wearing a hard bike helmet on a forest trail once upon a time. I ran square into a 2" diam. cut branch, hitting the temple area. It knocked me on my butt, but that's about it.
Excellent, but that doesn't say anything about whether you would have hit it if you weren't wearing a helmet.
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Old 04-03-2019, 08:31 PM   #34
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Re: Power Scooters And Skateboards


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People easily go 25 miles an hour or more on scooters and motorized skateboards and a lot faster on bicycles. 25 miles an hour is over 33 feet a second; slam your noggin into something at that rate and serious damage will be done.

Bike helmets might look dorky but they definitely help reduce head injuries.
That's the question. Top level studies say they don't.
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Old 04-03-2019, 08:42 PM   #35
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Re: Power Scooters And Skateboards


Doctors are the worst people to have answer this question. They get much simpler questions wrong.

From an analysis side, it's really difficult. Seat bell's benefits could be established because so many cars had both a driver and front seat passenger, so one could be a control for the other. A new statistical analysis technique had to be developed, and the guys who did the work got an award for it.

No such thing for bicycles, so getting into the case by case analysis really gives you nothing to hang your hat on. Top level, however, gets right to the policy question. If we pass a mandatory bicycle helmet law, will injuries go down? The answer to that is no. Will they go up? Maybe. There have not been enough country level studies to say with good certainty, but the data so far suggests injuries go up.
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Old 04-03-2019, 08:49 PM   #36
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Re: Power Scooters And Skateboards


Some of this can be counterintuitive.

Initial response to kids getting hit by a pitch on the left side of the chest led to padding being used. That's better, right?

Wrong. It changed an elastic collision into an inelastic collision, resulting in an increased likelihood of stopping the heart.


Fewer bruised ribs, though....
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Old 04-03-2019, 08:54 PM   #37
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Re: Power Scooters And Skateboards


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Excellent, but that doesn't say anything about whether you would have hit it if you weren't wearing a helmet.
This is a good point, it's kinda like wearing gloves vs not wearing gloves during demo.

If you're wearing gloves, you just grab ahold of any old thing and give it a tank.

Not wearing gloves, and you're a whole heck of a lot more aware of what you're grabbing.

Same can be said wearing a helmet/hard hat IMO, you're just not as aware, because subconsciously, you know you're covered.

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Old 04-03-2019, 09:33 PM   #38
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Re: Power Scooters And Skateboards


It's certainly one factor. Maybe your helmet restricts what you can see some, so you wind up turning your head.

I mountain biked almost every day for years. No helmet. Mostly rocks and trees through the tough parts. Never crashed, never hit a tree limb through those stretches. Extremely steep and fast downhill. Going uphill, put it in low low, and lean as far over the handlebars as you can. The front tire still came off the ground with every pedal stroke.

I did all that alone, with nobody around, and nobody likely to show up if something happened. Just had to plan ahead and pay attention.
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Old 04-03-2019, 09:37 PM   #39
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Re: Power Scooters And Skateboards


Riding on road, I managed to get forced off into the curb. Wound up bouncing back into the road to the sound of a semi that was following upshifting. Couldn't walk, so I crawled out of the way.
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Old 04-03-2019, 09:56 PM   #40
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Re: Power Scooters And Skateboards


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So do baseball caps.
Okay, let me hit you in the head with a bat, take your choice of wearing a baseball cap or a bike helmet...............

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