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Customers And Illegal Work

 
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Old 11-29-2010, 12:42 PM   #1
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Customers And Illegal Work


OK the Last 3 Jobs I bid - I lost, I can deal with that. Times are tough, So I will trim my Numbers a tad, and Move on.

But wait,,,,,I lost the Bid by Thousands?? Huh - I found Out why "ILLEGALS" Mexican, Guatemalan, whatever.

Painting, Siding, Roofing, Concrete - It doesn't seam to stop as to what trade is getting hammered by this crap!

Now I got Hung up on by a customer who wanted me to Match a bid by a Mexican to do a Porch t&g Pine decking, No Permits, Keep the Illegal 6 1/2 in spacing for the Railings, and cut off 6'' of rot on the Posts. I said if it is Rotted I will replace it with a new one at $ per Post.......Nope - the Other guy says he can just cut off the Rot and put in another Piece.

First of all, you can't tell how much rot is in the Post, because it has Aluminum covering it, This whole Porch might be rotted and may need to have a lot of lumber replaced. "That's ok I will stay with him since HE knows what he is doing"....Click WTF?

I am so Sick of this, I have 3mil Liability,Licenses, and I pay my Taxes. I have been doing this Trade for Over 30 + Years and this is the Worst I have seen in my Lifetime. End of Rant!
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Old 11-29-2010, 01:06 PM   #2
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Re: Customers And Illegal Work


It does get frustrating. When I was doing all that tract work for Pulte in the early 2000s, the Mexicans who actually were employed by a major contractor, would steal products from their employer and knock on doors soliciting the very product for about 10% of what the builder was charging for those upgrades. They were cleaning up. Homeowners could care less. All they knew is they paid 10 cents on a dollar for upgrades they could not afford to purchase from the builder.

Luckily there are not too many Mexicans, illegal or otherwise who are in my line of work. The legal ones we do employ, I wish everyone else would work as hard as them.

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Old 11-29-2010, 01:06 PM   #3
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Re: Customers And Illegal Work


Same story just about everywhere. It seems the building departments don't want to enforce the laws unless you are properly licensed. If you're illegal, you get a pass.

If you have an inspector friend, maybe you can get him out there the first day of the job, after the tear-off has started, and get him to red-tag the job.
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Old 11-29-2010, 01:41 PM   #4
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Re: Customers And Illegal Work


Rant and move on, this type of "customer" will always be around looking for the next sucker to complete his POS job for minimal wages. You could make a lot of trouble for this Ho and illegal if you want to.
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Old 11-29-2010, 01:49 PM   #5
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Re: Customers And Illegal Work


We're all in the same boat out there. I'm lucky to land 1 out of every 4 jobs these days. Never give up
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Old 11-29-2010, 02:00 PM   #6
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Re: Customers And Illegal Work


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Originally Posted by kevjob View Post
you could make a lot of trouble for this ho and illegal if you want to.
do it.
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Old 11-29-2010, 02:16 PM   #7
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Re: Customers And Illegal Work


I am very interested in this topic and will do some research and post my findings

If anyone else has any info on how to report illegal immigrants then please post.

A few years back I tried stopping a few in my area and the police told me unless there’s an alteration that warrants a complaint there is nothing they can or will do.

I guess I (we as a nation) should resort to guerilla tactics to stop them? Our rights and liberties are protecting them from us stopping them, WTF!

I would like to see all CT members should join forces and make a stand against illegal immigrants under bidding and stealing our work!
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Old 11-29-2010, 02:37 PM   #8
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Re: Customers And Illegal Work


I did find this article. These penalties are for employers not home owners.
Ho’s should be held responsible for hiring illegal immigrants as well as hiring an unlicensed contractor.

Since 2005 contractors in NJ are required to have a “home improvement contractor’s license”
Has the state enforced this new law, yes to a point but not nearly enough?

In 2010 contractors are required to have an EPA license for working on homes prior to 1978.
Will this law be enforced, most likely not?

http://www.nvo.com/beaulier/penaltie...mentedworkers/

There are civil and criminal penalties for hiring illegal aliens. Sec. 274A of the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA) and 8 U.S.C. 1324a, makes it unlawful for any person knowingly to hire, recruit or refer for a fee any alien not authorized to work. An employer that violates these laws can face penalties of:
·$250 to $2,000 fine for each unauthorized individual;
·$2,000 to $5,000 for each employee if the employer has previously been in violation; or
·$3,000 to $10,000 for each individual if the employer was subject to more than one cease and desist order.
The employer could also be fined $100 to $1,000 for each individual “paperwork” violation.
The criminal penalties for a pattern and practice violation can be up to $3,000 for each unauthorized alien, imprisonment up to six months, or both
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Old 11-29-2010, 02:51 PM   #9
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Re: Customers And Illegal Work


Think I’m finding the answers myself, LOL
Found this too:
http://www.helmerlegal.com/post-detail.php?id=306
“According to the US Immigration and Customs Enforcement office in Newark, the penalties are part of the agency's crackdown on enforcing immigration law in the state. It's not just New Jersey that was targeted during these increased crackdowns. Across the country, the Obama administration is coming down harder on businesses that fail to ensure that their employees are qualified to work in the country.”
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Old 11-29-2010, 03:03 PM   #10
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Re: Customers And Illegal Work


Keep an eye on the job,if it's not too much trouble. I bet these bozos get 1/3rd the way into it and bail.
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Old 11-29-2010, 03:34 PM   #11
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Re: Customers And Illegal Work


Quote:
Originally Posted by festerized View Post
I am very interested in this topic and will do some research and post my findings

If anyone else has any info on how to report illegal immigrants then please post.

A few years back I tried stopping a few in my area and the police told me unless there’s an alteration that warrants a complaint there is nothing they can or will do.

I guess I (we as a nation) should resort to guerilla tactics to stop them? Our rights and liberties are protecting them from us stopping them, WTF!

I would like to see all CT members should join forces and make a stand against illegal immigrants under bidding and stealing our work!
I have called the local ICE office three times in Syracuse. Toll free number leave a message.

I left detailed message AND WITHIN 2 WEEKS THEY WERE CAUGHT.
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Old 11-29-2010, 03:43 PM   #12
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Re: Customers And Illegal Work


Quote:
Originally Posted by festerized View Post
I did find this article. These penalties are for employers not home owners.
Ho’s should be held responsible for hiring illegal immigrants as well as hiring an unlicensed contractor.

Since 2005 contractors in NJ are required to have a “home improvement contractor’s license”
Has the state enforced this new law, yes to a point but not nearly enough?

In 2010 contractors are required to have an EPA license for working on homes prior to 1978.
Will this law be enforced, most likely not?

http://www.nvo.com/beaulier/penaltie...mentedworkers/

There are civil and criminal penalties for hiring illegal aliens. Sec. 274A of the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA) and 8 U.S.C. 1324a, makes it unlawful for any person knowingly to hire, recruit or refer for a fee any alien not authorized to work. An employer that violates these laws can face penalties of:
·$250 to $2,000 fine for each unauthorized individual;
·$2,000 to $5,000 for each employee if the employer has previously been in violation; or
·$3,000 to $10,000 for each individual if the employer was subject to more than one cease and desist order.
The employer could also be fined $100 to $1,000 for each individual “paperwork” violation.
The criminal penalties for a pattern and practice violation can be up to $3,000 for each unauthorized alien, imprisonment up to six months, or both
I grew up where you did. As you said, licensing did not begin till 2005 so we never had any. Any Pedro with a pick up truck and a tool box could call themselves a contractor.

That said.......

These new laws and fines you listed, as are most laws, designed to steal money from innocent hard working people under the guise of protecting the public. Why bother making a law if no one ever intended to enforce it? Unfortunately these laws only apply to those born in the USA.

Like some one said above. Maybe just maybe........we don't want that type of homeowner who just wants the lowest price and may the quality be damned.
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Old 11-29-2010, 04:09 PM   #13
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Re: Customers And Illegal Work


Quote:
Originally Posted by Trim40 View Post
Keep an eye on the job,if it's not too much trouble. I bet these bozos get 1/3rd the way into it and bail.

No work has started yet, But im sure it will happen soon, as for Driving by the Job - I drive by it every Day, and My friend owns a shop across the Street. I will drive by and Drop off a 30 PK of Beer to the Guys in the Shop and let em know 1St one to call me gets another 30PK!

Ill get em.


And here is Why................

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Old 11-29-2010, 04:39 PM   #14
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Re: Customers And Illegal Work


Just make sure they are actually ILLEGAL aliens. I went to high school with a Mexican in Minnesota. His parents were born in the U.S. (North Dakota, I think). His now a 69 year old paraplegic that was an All-State hockey player (defenseman) and on the football team.

Too often, the "illegal" term is a poorly used term to throw people into a category for the purpose of an objection to a situation without looking further.

To bad you have to pay off your buddies with a 30 pack to harass an owner/possible customer (possibly legal alien) and someone (possibly legal alien) that may just do what is specified by the people with the money to pay and they might even pay more if you raise a bigger fuss. - You were just quoting and and did not have a relationship, so price can be important.

Getting 1 out of 4 jobs is not a bad percentage today. - Far better than average.
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Old 11-29-2010, 04:52 PM   #15
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Re: Customers And Illegal Work


Up here he would need a C of Q in carpentry to touch that.

Do you have similar laws down there? Don't they have to have a tradesmans' licence to do the work?

May be another way to get them kicked off the job.
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Old 11-29-2010, 04:52 PM   #16
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Re: Customers And Illegal Work


I know it easy to just blow it off saying we wouldn't want that type of customer anyway.

Whether or not the customer is trying to the lowest price and don't care about quality may not be the issue here.

They seem to think that if one person is thousands higher than another that someone is trying to fleece them. Pedro has told them what they wanted to hear, that what they want done can be done. You come along with a price thousands higher and say it can't be done that way. Lots would be inclined to think that you're just trying to upsell and that it's not necessary.

This is not just a problem with craigslist customers, it's a problem with anybody who doesn't know better and is afraid of being ripped off by us evil contractors.

We don't just need to sell our work, we also need to educate them why it's needed, and why it needs to be done properly.

JMO

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Just make sure they are actually ILLEGAL aliens. I went to high school with a Mexican in Minnesota. His parents were born in the U.S. (North Dakota, I think). His now a 69 year old paraplegic that was an All-State hockey player (defenseman) and on the football team.

Too often, the "illegal" term is a poorly used term to throw people into a category for the purpose of an objection to a situation without looking further.

To bad you have to pay off your buddies with a 30 pack to harass an owner/possible customer (possibly legal alien) and someone (possibly legal alien) that may just do what is specified by the people with the money to pay and they might even pay more if you raise a bigger fuss. - You were just quoting and and did not have a relationship, so price can be important.

Getting 1 out of 4 jobs is not a bad percentage today. - Far better than average.
Whether he is an "illegal alien" or not- he is performing illegal work if he is doing it improperly like that, no?

I thought it was the law to conform to building codes and to have license & insurance?

Last edited by Winchester; 11-29-2010 at 05:08 PM.
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Old 11-29-2010, 05:22 PM   #17
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Re: Customers And Illegal Work


The HO had the Price for the Material, and wanted me to Match the Price for Doing the Job.
When I had asked what the Contractor was doing, he made a Reference about the Thick Spanish accent, and said something about Rot on the Bottom of the Post's (if you go back and Look at the Porch Picture you will see Plastic covering the Upper deck - Hence a lot of hidden Damage)
I didn't even get to give him a Price - I was commenting on Cutting some Rot off the Support - I said I never cut rot off a Support - I REPLACE IT at $*** Per post - He became Irate that I did not Agree (to hack the Job) about cutting away the Rot and Hung up.

The other Job that was Thousands off was a side by side Total SF was 30 SQ each and we were off by $6000
Most of the Jobs have been off by 500 to 800 and we seem to be in the Middle of the Price spectrum, so the Other Guy striped and Plywood the Job for free??
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Old 11-29-2010, 05:38 PM   #18
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Re: Customers And Illegal Work


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The HO had the Price for the Material, and wanted me to Match the Price for Doing the Job.
When I had asked what the Contractor was doing, he made a Reference about the Thick Spanish accent, and said something about Rot on the Bottom of the Post's (if you go back and Look at the Porch Picture you will see Plastic covering the Upper deck - Hence a lot of hidden Damage)
I didn't even get to give him a Price - I was commenting on Cutting some Rot off the Support - I said I never cut rot off a Support - I REPLACE IT at $*** Per post - He became Irate that I did not Agree (to hack the Job) about cutting away the Rot and Hung up.
Don't know about your area but I suspect it's the same as anywhere I've ever worked. Posts must be continuous unless the connection is spec'd buy an engineer, you can't just hack off part of it. So, it's either replace it or leave it. The guy is still doing illegal work.

Report him, it's the right thing to do. Even if this particular customer deserves a hack job, doesn't mean the person who will live in the house after him does.

Last edited by Winchester; 11-29-2010 at 05:41 PM.
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Old 11-29-2010, 07:11 PM   #19
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Re: Customers And Illegal Work


Snobird -

If you are just doing the labor and not buying materials or scheduling work and guaranteeing the work, you are out of the realm of being a real contractor and are just a labor supplier. - That is an invitation to compete with more people.
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Old 11-29-2010, 07:33 PM   #20
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Snobird -

If you are just doing the labor and not buying materials or scheduling work and guaranteeing the work, you are out of the realm of being a real contractor and are just a labor supplier. - That is an invitation to compete with more people.
Im with you on that

But this was the Conversation (I love the Fact everybody knows what the Cost is for the 2x4 BUT Not one Customer can tell me what the Cost should be to pick it up )

I will only Supply Just Labor for friends and Other Contractors.


It was kind of Like......... Craiglist calling me

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