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College: Is It Worth It?

 
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Old 06-10-2015, 06:36 PM   #41
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Re: College: Is It Worth It?


I'm not trying to be terribly contradictory here... but I have no college education. I was home schooled through high school and started working for Dad before I had finished HS.

I'm pretty much the exact opposite of everything Stephen outlined as issues people have by not going to college. I don't consider myself superior to others in a sort of
"I don't need no stinking education" way. I just had no desire whatsoever to go to college and do something that to me felt like being a big waste of time.

I was able to work a decent job that has great potential, for a business that I will most likely own one day and can make just as much with or without having that college education. There are not many jobs out there that appeal to me other than doing exactly what I'm doing right now.

My parents taught me how to be educated, respect others, talk to adults, have a good attitude in a bad situation, how to deal with problems, and the list goes on.

In my opinion, it's personality traits and those don't have to be learned in college.
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Old 06-10-2015, 06:50 PM   #42
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Re: College: Is It Worth It?


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Originally Posted by Xtrememtnbiker View Post
I'm not trying to be terribly contradictory here... but I have no college education. I was home schooled through high school and started working for Dad before I had finished HS.

I'm pretty much the exact opposite of everything Stephen outlined as issues people have by not going to college. I don't consider myself superior to others in a sort of
"I don't need no stinking education" way. I just had no desire whatsoever to go to college and do something that to me felt like being a big waste of time.

I was able to work a decent job that has great potential, for a business that I will most likely own one day and can make just as much with or without having that college education. There are not many jobs out there that appeal to me other than doing exactly what I'm doing right now.

My parents taught me how to be educated, respect others, talk to adults, have a good attitude in a bad situation, how to deal with problems, and the list goes on.

In my opinion, it's personality traits and those don't have to be learned in college.
Xtreme, you make great points and they are all valid but the bottom line is this...

Your parents assisted heavily in exactly whom you are today...which in my little humble opinion is a pretty good all around dude.

SOOO many people don't have that luxury or benefit, not saying one can't succeed without parental insight, but a lot of people don't.

They don't have the will or the ambition ingrained in them. The people that have grinded through college at least have some drive otherwise they wouldn't have a degree. (whatever the paper the degree is printed on's worth is another topic for another time)

You, know it or not, have a far better education than most people because your parents gave 2 poohs. Not that you didn't earn anything mind you, it is just that you are in the exact position every child in the USA should be in but sadly they are not.
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Old 06-10-2015, 06:57 PM   #43
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Re: College: Is It Worth It?


I have worked a bunch of warehouse jobs and I was always amazed at how many real cleaver collage/university educated people worked in these places doing the same exact thing I was on production lines. They all had excuses like no work in their field and over qualified.

My wife's degree was kind of the same example. 80% of friends who done the same 6 year course as her don't work in the field they trained in. Only a couple of them got the placements they went to school for and most had to move away from home to get these jobs.

Yet every single person I knew in trade school got jobs in the field they trained in. Most courses were only a year part time too and most worked on their door steps and earn more than the majority of "collage educated people"

I didn't do collage and wish I had now given trade school a miss too as either way I would have ended up in construction. It was 4 years wasted of my career as I'm no longer an electrician and should have used that time to work a few jobs to figure out what kind of construction I was interested in. It ended up being carpentry. Turned a job down in my mates family's wood yard to go trade school too.
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Old 06-10-2015, 07:03 PM   #44
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I have worked a bunch of warehouse jobs and I was always amazed at how many real cleaver collage/university educated people worked in these places doing the same exact thing I was on production lines. They all had excuses like no work in their field and over qualified.

My wife's degree was kind of the same example. 80% of friends who done the same 6 year course as her don't work in the field they trained in. Only a couple of them got the placements they went to school for and most had to move away from home to get these jobs.

Yet every single person I knew in trade school got jobs in the field they trained in. Most courses were only a year part time too and most worked on their door steps and earn more than the majority of "collage educated people"

I didn't do collage and wish I had now given trade school a miss too as either way I would have ended up in construction. It was 4 years wasted of my career as I'm no longer an electrician and should have used that time to work a few jobs to figure out what kind of construction I was interested in. It ended up being carpentry. Turned a job down in my mates family's wood yard to go trade school too.
A lot of companies don't care what your degree is in but won't hire you without one.

Also on average you will make 1 million dollars more over your lifetime then without a degree. According to the article.

I've read that statistic other places as well.

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Old 06-10-2015, 07:09 PM   #45
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A lot of companies don't care what your degree is in but won't hire you without one.

Also on average you will make 1 million dollars more over your lifetime then without a degree. According to the article.
My Dad hired me.

I'm out here trying to be the best I possibly can in my field, and I guess I fail to see a college degree making me an extra million. If we do good work and have a good reputation (which we do) then our clients aren't asking if we have college degree's and turning us down since we don't.

Dad has a Bachelor's in business, I didn't go to college and neither did my brother, my BIL is maybe a couple credits away from an associates in accounting and hasn't been to college in at least 7 or 8 years, and the other guy did a little bit of online college and it's just not his thing so he stopped.
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Old 06-10-2015, 07:16 PM   #46
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Re: College: Is It Worth It?


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A lot of companies don't care what your degree is in but won't hire you without one.

Also on average you will make 1 million dollars more over your lifetime then without a degree. According to the article.

The kind of places that hired me didn't care lol.

I don't doubt some earn more. The people I know who did get the jobs they wanted are all on good money and their degrees were because of this. Most of them are in medical field and don't earn under $100k a year a few are on over $800+k a year.

What's crazy is the biggest earners are all my friends who didn't do collage or trade school. Some didn't even complete school. They got jobs in London for investment banks, commodities, traders etc etc these guys are on the big money $300k+ bonuses every qtr and great benefits packages and travel the world. All thick as **** but great at being wide boys.
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Old 06-10-2015, 07:17 PM   #47
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Re: College: Is It Worth It?


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My Dad hired me.

I'm out here trying to be the best I possibly can in my field, and I guess I fail to see a college degree making me an extra million. If we do good work and have a good reputation (which we do) then our clients aren't asking if we have college degree's and turning us down since we don't.

Dad has a Bachelor's in business, I didn't go to college and neither did my brother, my BIL is maybe a couple credits away from an associates in accounting and hasn't been to college in at least 7 or 8 years, and the other guy did a little bit of online college and it's just not his thing so he stopped.
I'm not arguing against trade people, but most the real "money People" in life have a degree.that's just a fact. Does that mean a degree guarantees anything? Of course not. Happiness is worth a lot more than money to some. However I know very happy rich people as well.
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Old 06-10-2015, 07:31 PM   #48
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Re: College: Is It Worth It?


Arguing for college, isn't an argument against the trades. It's not if one is good the other has to be bad.
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Old 06-10-2015, 07:38 PM   #49
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Re: College: Is It Worth It?


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I'm not arguing against trade people, but most the real "money People" in life have a degree.that's just a fact. Does that mean a degree guarantees anything? Of course not. Happiness is worth a lot more than money to some. However I know very happy rich people as well.

I agree completely. We don't work for the kind of money you do too often but when we do I am thankful they made a good living. The people who make less are less likely to want the quality of work I like to deliver.

I'm just one of those people that would rather be happy than be rich. For me, happiness isn't college and the business world.

I also don't feel like contractors need to be scraping by their whole lives. If you work hard at running a good and efficient business, I don't see any reason you can't make a really nice living in construction. Especially with a great crew and great subs.
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Old 06-10-2015, 07:53 PM   #50
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I agree completely. We don't work for the kind of money you do too often but when we do I am thankful they made a good living. The people who make less are less likely to want the quality of work I like to deliver.

I'm just one of those people that would rather be happy than be rich. For me, happiness isn't college and the business world.

I also don't feel like contractors need to be scraping by their whole lives. If you work hard at running a good and efficient business, I don't see any reason you can't make a really nice living in construction. Especially with a great crew and great subs.
I wholeheartedly agree Travis, the trades have treated me well, but it wasn't an easy way to go by no means. Some of the things I've had to endure I don't wish on anyone. Then again it's what has made me who I am, and the lessons I've learned are priceless.

I would like to emphasize that being rich or poor has nothing to do with being happy. So when you say "I'd rather be happy than rich" it's not one or the other. I'd rather be happy and rich.
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Old 06-10-2015, 07:53 PM   #51
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Re: College: Is It Worth It?


I am all for college, started saving for my kids college education before she was born. I went to CC at night for a while, i just took courses i wanted to take, mostly business writing, college algebra, record keeping, a few lit courses. Cash out of pocket.

I think it is apparent that a college education is not going to guarantee you more money to a point, dspending on what you do. I know high school drop outs who are oil field and welders making six figures, several guys in construction, and other businesses. But it certainly opens doors that are shut in a lot of fields.

I place the most value on what Stephen described as soft skills, and with good reading and a desire to better ones self it is not imperative to go to college to gain those skills. But it does, i would imagine, open your eyes to different ways of doing things, cultures, theories, ect... and you learn to play well with others, network, socialize in a different environment, ect....

I would not be OK with paying a lot of money for a kid to screw off and avoid the work environment, and if the kid wanted to get an art degree or anthropology or what ever i wouldn't be inclined to pay for it. But my wife would be, so thats that. Lol.
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Old 06-10-2015, 08:16 PM   #52
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Re: College: Is It Worth It?


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I wholeheartedly agree Travis, the trades have treated me well, but it wasn't an easy way to go by no means. Some of the things I've had to endure I don't wish on anyone. Then again it's what has made me who I am, and the lessons I've learned are priceless.

I would like to emphasize that being rich or poor has nothing to do with being happy. So when you say "I'd rather be happy than rich" it's not one or the other. I'd rather be happy and rich.

I guess rich is relative. I'm not going to make 250k a year doing what I do. I figured we were using rich more in the sense of well over 100k.

I'm happy and my needs are met. My statement was geared towards the fact that what I enjoy is working with one to two guys at most on residential remodeling, additions, or deck building type work and I want to be doing the work not bidding jobs.

The above mentioned aren't going to have me making 150k a year so if that's rich, then I won't be rich, but I will be happy.

I fully believe it's possible to be happy and rich. Hell, I'm rich compared to a lot of people. I mostly just consider myself blessed and am thankful to God for where he has me currently in life.
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Old 06-10-2015, 11:09 PM   #53
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Re: College: Is It Worth It?


I think a college education is a good thing. Going to college for four years doesn't actually mean that a person has a "college education", in my opinion. We all know those kids that just count time while they are there. They're wasting time and money. The folks that really work hard are learning something about hard work, organization, networking, etc. in addition to their actual field of study. That will pay off, if implemented, regardless of whether they end up in their field of study.

I only spent three semesters at college and it was a good decision at the time. I wanted to be building stuff and I wasn't in a trade school so I was wasting time and money. The downside is that I don't think I'll be able to go back to college until I'm nearing retirement and that's a bummer because I'd get a lot out of it now, or even ten years ago.

The million dollar lifetime earning difference may be real but I'm a little skeptical. For one thing, they've been using that same number since I was in high school, 20 years ago. It should have doubled due to inflation in that time. The other factors are lost wages for four years and also the cost of the education itself. I bet a lot of folks actually net about 200k LESS because of their college education but the really big earners bring the total way up. It only takes a few billionaires to average out thousands of failures.
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Old 06-10-2015, 11:22 PM   #54
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Re: College: Is It Worth It?


Forbes has it at $830,000. I think it has gone down because of tuition costs
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Old 06-11-2015, 04:41 AM   #55
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Re: College: Is It Worth It?


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I am all for college, started saving for my kids college education before she was born. I went to CC at night for a while, i just took courses i wanted to take, mostly business writing, college algebra, record keeping, a few lit courses. Cash out of pocket.

I think it is apparent that a college education is not going to guarantee you more money to a point, dspending on what you do. I know high school drop outs who are oil field and welders making six figures, several guys in construction, and other businesses. But it certainly opens doors that are shut in a lot of fields.

I place the most value on what Stephen described as soft skills, and with good reading and a desire to better ones self it is not imperative to go to college to gain those skills. But it does, i would imagine, open your eyes to different ways of doing things, cultures, theories, ect... and you learn to play well with others, network, socialize in a different environment, ect....

I would not be OK with paying a lot of money for a kid to screw off and avoid the work environment, and if the kid wanted to get an art degree or anthropology or what ever i wouldn't be inclined to pay for it. But my wife would be, so thats that. Lol.
john,
that's very interesting.

Of course--- the things YOU wouldn't be inclined to pay for ( art degree , anthropology)---- actually are pretty relevant to what we do on the job site.

I will give you an example----

we finished a challenging 2 week job yesterday.
potentially difficult customer.
I was handling the customer just fine---- but still every day he was kind of in our face " what about this, can we change that, how that that...." and so on.
Tuesday june 2 that all changed-largely because one of my lads had an art minor
we had previously executed the customers verbal design on some very basic copper work--- customer didn't like it after all. the customer,his wife and my son put their heads together-came up with an alternative design. customers wife then made some ceramic accessory pieces in a kiln that were then incorporated into the finished design. ( my son could also EASILY have done that, we own 2 kilns, BTW ). Tuesday,june 2 kevin executed the new design ( to my eye it's the ugliest thing we have ever done)--- the customers LOVED it---VERY happy---and from that moment forward the customer was totally out of our face.--- without that art background there is ZERO chance we could have satisfied the guy.

Anthropology-isn't that the study of how people get along,cultures and societies etc???? you don't see job site usefullness there ???

My daughter in law---- Art major, Phsych minor.--- in graduate school now AND fully employed right now---plus 80K job when she graduates--- not much softer and squishier than art and phsych.
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Old 06-11-2015, 06:10 AM   #56
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I despised my 4 years of college
It probably despised you, too.
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Old 06-11-2015, 06:11 AM   #57
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Re: College: Is It Worth It?


Unless you're on the top or near the top of the total totem pole in the trades, you aren't going to get rich, at least not around here.

I went to college took some general credits but I don't contribute my success or lack thereof all because of it. I think I have a lot of common sense that helps more than anything.

I'm 28, this is my sixth summer, I have two crews and sub crews going, a sales rep and fleet of equipment. All things I worked for when I first started and because of hard work, I was able to obtain it. So far this week alone, we sold a total of 1/3 the gross sales I sold my entire first year. All it takes is an understanding of what you're doing, being money smart and being committed to quality. I don't know if college teaches you those things. (With all that said, I still think I'm going the wrong direction with things, and maybe college would've helped me to find something else I enjoy)
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Old 06-11-2015, 06:23 AM   #58
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Re: College: Is It Worth It?


College used to be worth it when legal drinking age was 18.
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Old 06-11-2015, 11:06 AM   #59
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College used to be worth it when legal drinking age was 18.
Should have got a doctorate in Liquid Lunch and Days of our Lives. Dissertation titled "Pitcher of Miller & F*** her brains out Beau"
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Old 06-11-2015, 11:47 AM   #60
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john,
that's very interesting.

Of course--- the things YOU wouldn't be inclined to pay for ( art degree , anthropology)---- actually are pretty relevant to what we do on the job site.

I will give you an example----

we finished a challenging 2 week job yesterday.
potentially difficult customer.
I was handling the customer just fine---- but still every day he was kind of in our face " what about this, can we change that, how that that...." and so on.
Tuesday june 2 that all changed-largely because one of my lads had an art minor
we had previously executed the customers verbal design on some very basic copper work--- customer didn't like it after all. the customer,his wife and my son put their heads together-came up with an alternative design. customers wife then made some ceramic accessory pieces in a kiln that were then incorporated into the finished design. ( my son could also EASILY have done that, we own 2 kilns, BTW ). Tuesday,june 2 kevin executed the new design ( to my eye it's the ugliest thing we have ever done)--- the customers LOVED it---VERY happy---and from that moment forward the customer was totally out of our face.--- without that art background there is ZERO chance we could have satisfied the guy.

Anthropology-isn't that the study of how people get along,cultures and societies etc???? you don't see job site usefullness there ???

My daughter in law---- Art major, Phsych minor.--- in graduate school now AND fully employed right now---plus 80K job when she graduates--- not much softer and squishier than art and phsych.
I imagine we will have to agree to disagree.

I am all for being well rounded, cultured, "artsy" if thats your thing. But i view art as a hobby, or a profession for wealthy people. Im not dropping 100k or so on my kid to learn about art. I would be supportive and happy for them if thats what they chose, but the old man aint paying for it. I work very hard for my living and am happy to provide well, and i will be more than willing to make sure my children can provide for their families in whatever field they chose, as long as it is a viable profession that i believe they will be able to support themselves with. If they chose to pursue surfing, rodeo, ect.... i aint financing that either.

As far as "jobsite skills", i hope my daughter chooses not to become a contractor, but if she did, i dont think it is necessary to have an anthropology degree or an art degree to do either. The best builders i have ever known do not have an anthropology degree, they somehow make it through. I would push for Business, Construction Science, Engineering ( Civil or Architectural ). I would be happy to pay for some electives in their hobby though.

While your saying there is ZERO chance your guy wouldnt be able to pull off his work in that instance without an art minor, i have to disagree, speaking generally. I of course dont know your employee. I do know and work with several talented designers and architects who can draw anything that a person could aspire to want to commission to be built, altered , replicated or renovated. They dont have art degrees that i am aware of. The best of all of them didnt get his architectural degree until he was 40, and has worked in several countries and states. I am confident that they could of figured it out and got me something to work with, i have never lost a job or had a dissatisfied client due to not being able to produce a drawing of their vision, which i could build.

All a moot point. My wife is going to want to pay no matter what the educational field they choose. She will win that argument because she is smarter, more educated and way better looking than me. I will just have to be satisfied that i have taught my children how to work and make intelligent decisions if they choose art as degree. At least they will have the work ethic and critical thinking skills to make a living doing something while they are paying their way through college.

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