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Seven-Delta-FortyOne 11-24-2018 04:28 PM

I guess we're talking apples and oranges.

I hate Monsanto, and will never, ever, buy even one cents worth of product from them.

My county passed a GMO ban a couple years back. :clap:

But yes, if you want to play with the big boys, you have to go broke like the big boys.

This country, since the 1930's, has purposefully and systematically destroyed small family farms. Now, if you want to "farm" commercially, you must "Get Big or Get Out". :rolleyes:


Just like cattle. If you want your product to end up on the IBP line, you better have several hundred cows. Thousands would be better.

But, if you want to supply yourself, your neighbors, friends, family, and community, you can make a decent, if part-time, living with 10 cows.

But the key is diversity. 10 cows, 20 acres of grain, some timberland, orchards, sheep, hay, goats, etc., and now you can make a living farming.

I don't have any experience farming commercially. I'm a builder. But I'm part-time involved in my family's endeavors to develop just what I'm talking about. A very diverse, sustainable agricultural-based life.

There are dozens and dozens of folk up here doing the same.

On the topic of tractors, one of the grain farmers that we buy from, his "day" job is the owner of a tractor repair shop. He also farms on the side. He does quite well for himself. He sees tractors all day, and he refuses to buy a new or newer tractor. He would rather have something from the 50's or 60's, and repair it. He says they are just far more reliable. And cheaper, and easier to fix, and on and on.

And when you're working on a small scale, that's all you need.

I don't know if you're familiar with Joel Salatin, but he has some interesting books on the subject of sustainable family farming.

Just as a disclaimer, I don't agree with, nor endorse everything that he says. Buy he's one of the few people writing about this subject right now.

dayexco 11-24-2018 04:51 PM

10 head of feeders would take 20 acres all by themselves.

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Peter_C 11-24-2018 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seven-Delta-FortyOne (Post 7416619)
I hate Monsanto, and will never, ever, buy even one cents worth of product from them.

I agree with you 100% about the hate part, you probably noticed I put a rolls eyes, and made a comment about $$$. Unfortunately the issues of pig weed and the like are not very well accepted at the grain elevators so you must sterilize your soil. Especially during a summer fallow. I used to put on a backpack sprayer with 2fourD and Roundup mixed together and spot spray out thistle, teasel, pig weed, etc. I feel better about spot spraying. Rye would get hand rouged. I wish there were better alternatives. Even my sister who studied South American farms, like in Cuba where they don't use chemicals at all, doesn't have a solution for us. They use crops that are bug resistant by virtue. Genetically chosen.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seven-Delta-FortyOne (Post 7416619)
My county passed a GMO ban a couple years back. :clap:

That's AWESOME! Your county was also the first one to ban plastic bags :clap:

Genetically modified isn't always a bad thing, just get away from the Monsanto line of thinking. My brother in law is a Genetic Horticulturist Professor and that is exactly what he has this Post Docs working on. Grad students are usually just doing genetic plant studies. He doesn't really teach, but is more of a research scientist.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seven-Delta-FortyOne (Post 7416619)
This country, since the 1930's, has purposefully and systematically destroyed small family farms. Now, if you want to "farm" commercially, you must "Get Big or Get Out". :rolleyes:

I don't know about purposefully, but all small businesses are becoming obsolete, such as the brick and mortar, with BIG box stores IE: HD, Walmart, etc, and Amazon taking over. Taxing internet purchases will help the brick and mortar stores big time. They need to include Ebay.

In France they are mostly small farms spread around the country. My wife's family are all farmers of one form or another. Milk, alfalfa, grain for feed, beef cows, veal calves, etc. Always fun to go play on their farms.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seven-Delta-FortyOne (Post 7416619)
But the key is diversity. 10 cows, 20 acres of grain, some timberland, orchards, sheep, hay, goats, etc., and now you can make a living farming.

Uggg, orchards...we had a few 30 or so acre cherry orchards. What a pain in the... They got bulldozed over, plowed and planted. Cows are not much easier to care for. I have great memories of cattle, but would like to keep them that way as I have forgotten the hard work and smells. We allow people to graze on our home farm and our range land with a per head fee.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seven-Delta-FortyOne (Post 7416619)
I don't have any experience farming commercially. I'm a builder. But I'm part-time involved in my family's endeavors to develop just what I'm talking about. A very diverse, sustainable agricultural-based life.

Commonly known as hobby farms. Best bacon and meat you can get! Plus the gardens produce healthy food, just pick a few bugs out of them. No need to wash them, just start munching! Plant fruit trees, lots of them. Nothing like a home grown white peach.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seven-Delta-FortyOne (Post 7416619)
On the topic of tractors, one of the grain farmers that we buy from, his "day" job is the owner of a tractor repair shop. He also farms on the side. He does quite well for himself. He sees tractors all day, and he refuses to buy a new or newer tractor. He would rather have something from the 50's or 60's, and repair it. He says they are just far more reliable. And cheaper, and easier to fix, and on and on.

We still have and use McCormick Farmalls that my grandmother bought/owned from circa 1950's (She did own the tractor dealer), for putting the hay crops up. The little Fords are super old flat head motors but just won't die. Sometimes though you spend more time working on it than using it and it becomes time for an upgrade. New usually offers better write offs, and fuel efficiency can pay major dividends. The first engine I rebuilt was a diesel 3 cyl MF 245 in 1983, and last summer I was still using it to fix the roads and move rocks. The bucket has holes in it but it still runs well. Every part has just about been rebuilt. It is older than I am.

https://www.contractortalk.com/attac...ha-tractor.jpg
Quote:

Originally Posted by Seven-Delta-FortyOne (Post 7416619)
I don't know if you're familiar with Joel Salatin, but he has some interesting books on the subject of sustainable family farming.

Just as a disclaimer, I don't agree with, nor endorse everything that he says. Buy he's one of the few people writing about this subject right now.

Sustainable is something more people need to work towards. Plastic is not one of the words that fits with sustainable for our current uses. Again with France in the small towns you buy your yogurt which comes in a glass jar. The next time you go to buy more, you bring the jar back.

FWIW The guys working for us do a good job on their own accord to pickup bailing twine and not leave garbage about. Can't say the same about other farmers as we have an Osprey nest that is sadly full of twine.

WarnerConstInc. 11-24-2018 06:53 PM

Wow.

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hdavis 11-24-2018 08:07 PM

No offense, but I hate farming...

TxElectrician 11-24-2018 08:34 PM

I've stayed out of this thread because I have no idea the problems cali faces with the fires.

As far as farming, I really have no idea either. But what I do know is my grandfather was able to supply food for him and his wife, my mom, sister and I, along with my aunt and her three kids on 2 acres.

Lots of chicken and veggies growing up but we survived well.

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hdavis 11-24-2018 08:54 PM

Don't get me wrong, I like eating and I like farmers, I just hate farming.

hdavis 11-24-2018 09:13 PM

Back to the defensible space. Cottage gardens were grown next to the cottage and were a backup in case the main crops failed. They may also have whatever cooking herbs and medicinal herbs that msy be needed.

Think of it as edible landscaping.

hdavis 11-24-2018 09:41 PM

An old timer southern farmer trick that seems to have been lost is they'd build what amounts to an apartment house for pigeons. They'd eat the eggs and squab.

Pigeons don't have the same predator problems chickens do.

deckman22 11-24-2018 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hdavis (Post 7416753)
An old timer southern farmer trick that seems to have been lost is they'd build what amounts to an apartment house for pigeons. They'd eat the eggs and squab.

Pigeons don't have the same predator problems chickens do.

Maybe not the land predators but hawks like them.

Peter_C 11-24-2018 11:03 PM

1 Attachment(s)
At this point the Camp Fire is out with 95% containment. The fire is under control at about 50% containment, unless severe weather conditions cause fire lines to jump. The rain Cali got helped the fire fighters.

There isn't much left of the town. Doubt they have running water or electricity. Not many stores are left. Amazing though how fast they can rebuild. Trader Joes had their store reopened in less than a year.

Paradise is going to get hit with enough rain next week to cause problems. After a fire they get crews in to shore up the roads, put hay barriers in place and in general begin cleanup. The rescue/recovery folks are still looking for bodies with the current body count at 84, with over 400 people still missing.

hdavis 11-24-2018 11:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deckman22 (Post 7416777)
Maybe not the land predators but hawks like them.

Narrows it down some, chickens are handy snacks for everyone.

Rio 11-25-2018 12:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hdavis (Post 7416827)
Narrows it down some, chickens are handy snacks for everyone.

Do they feed the pigeons or let them forage for their food, just provide the 'apartment'? Would that even work or do you have to have food for them to keep them hanging out?

SmallTownGuy 11-25-2018 07:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seven-Delta-FortyOne (Post 7416619)
I guess we're talking apples and oranges.

I hate Monsanto, and will never, ever, buy even one cents worth of product from them.

My county passed a GMO ban a couple years back. :clap:

But yes, if you want to play with the big boys, you have to go broke like the big boys.

........................

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_C (Post 7416647)
I agree with you 100% about the hate part, you probably noticed I put a rolls eyes, and made a comment about $$$. Unfortunately the issues of pig weed and the like are not very well accepted at the grain elevators so you must sterilize your soil. Especially during a summer fallow. I used to put on a backpack sprayer with 2fourD and Roundup mixed together and spot spray out thistle, teasel, pig weed, etc. I feel better about spot spraying. Rye would get hand rouged. I wish there were better alternatives. Even my sister who studied South American farms, like in Cuba where they don't use chemicals at all, doesn't have a solution for us. They use crops that are bug resistant by virtue. Genetically chosen.
........................

Good conversation between you two.
I.m learning quite a bit here.:thumbsup:

Seven-Delta-FortyOne 11-26-2018 10:37 AM

I enjoy talking to Peter_C.

We sometimes come at things from different angles, but he's done/is doing a lot of stuff that we do and are learning to do, albeit he's on a much larger scale.

I'm interested in the forest management end of things. He's doing smaller scale tree farming, which is something we're getting started with.



Thanks, Peter. :thumbsup:

hdavis 11-26-2018 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rio (Post 7416847)
Do they feed the pigeons or let them forage for their food, just provide the 'apartment'? Would that even work or do you have to have food for them to keep them hanging out?

You just provide the apartment house for them. Ones hatched and raised there will keep returning, they know it's home. They go out and forage.

If there is food, water, and grit year round, you don't have to feed them, just clean the house periodically.

KAP 11-26-2018 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_C (Post 7416807)
The rescue/recovery folks are still looking for bodies with the current body count at 84, with over 400 people still missing.

Update.. good news on the people still missing being revised down, and it being 100% contained, but added one more death... :sad:

California wildfire that killed at least 85 people fully contained... https://www.reuters.com/article/us-c...-idUSKCN1NU0A9

"The number of people still missing from the Camp Fire north of San Francisco dropped to 249 on Sunday, the Butte County Sheriff’s Office said. The number was revised down from 475 as people who were believed missing were found in shelters, staying in hotels or with friends, officials said, adding that many did not know they were on the list."

Peter_C 11-26-2018 02:23 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Seven-Delta-FortyOne (Post 7417471)
I enjoy talking to Peter_C.

We sometimes come at things from different angles, but he's done/is doing a lot of stuff that we do and are learning to do, albeit he's on a much larger scale.

Helps when they are open ended thoughtful conversations without ANY personal attacks :thumbsup:
Quote:

Originally Posted by Seven-Delta-FortyOne (Post 7417471)
I'm interested in the forest management end of things. He's doing smaller scale tree farming, which is something we're getting started with.

Not so sure most would consider us small scale. :whistling We employ a Forester, and a Logger that runs a crew of 5-6. Although we can only do so when it is profitable, which it barely is. One of the great side effects of logging is fire prevention! Carry it out, or burn it out.

Quote:

Originally Posted by KAP (Post 7417491)
Update.. good news on the people still missing being revised down, and it being 100% contained, but added one more death... :sad:

My friend posted up their crew and dogs are home after doing a job many wouldn't want to do, while working long hours.

Seven-Delta-FortyOne 11-26-2018 04:16 PM

:blush:

Yea I meant smaller scale compared to Green Diamond or SP.


Dunno, maybe not. :laughing:


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