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-   -   California burning again... (https://www.contractortalk.com/f22/california-burning-again-412997/)

griz 11-10-2018 08:11 PM

California burning again...
 
The "Camp Fire" has literally destroyed the town of Paradise.

Appears to have been caused by a power line problem...

As of this afternoon 6453 homes destroyed and the fire is 20% contained.

There are also two other fires in southern Calif, sorta down in Mikes neighborhood...

TimNJ 11-10-2018 08:22 PM

Unbelievable.
Is there any area of the state, that isn't in the big cities, that hasn't burned in the last three years?


Stay safe out there and have an escape planned.

Seven-Delta-FortyOne 11-10-2018 08:44 PM

We've had multiple small fires here, but nothing too big.

Thank God.

We sometimes get pretty smoky from fires in the east, though.

Eastern county has burned a few times, but once again, small stuff. Especially compared to what else is going on.

Seven-Delta-FortyOne 11-10-2018 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by griz (Post 7406609)
The "Camp Fire" has literally destroyed the town of Paradise.

Appears to have been caused by a power line problem...

As of this afternoon 6453 homes destroyed and the fire is 20% contained.

There are also two other fires in southern Calif, sorta down in Mikes neighborhood...

Been following this pretty closely.

I was over at the Cal-Fire station on Thursday, right after it started, and the guys were telling me that they were getting ready to get sent over there.

We sent 10 Strike Teams from Humboldt to Butte.

So now we're stretched pretty thin here. :eek:

griz 11-10-2018 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seven-Delta-FortyOne (Post 7406629)
Been following this pretty closely.

I was over at the Cal-Fire station on Thursday, right after it started, and the guys were telling me that they were getting ready to get sent over there.

We sent 10 Strike Teams from Humboldt to Butte.

So now we're stretched pretty thin here. :eek:

likely emptied out high rock & alder also....

TxElectrician 11-10-2018 08:52 PM

Stay safe fellas

Sent from my LG-LS993 using Tapatalk

Peter_C 11-10-2018 09:43 PM

1 Attachment(s)
I used to work in the Paradise area as it was part of my territory. Also spent a lot of time NE of there touring around the back country. Really sad to see the devastation, and the fact people died. There are some crazy videos of people escaping the fire. The roads were so packed people abandoned their vehicles and ran. Those that didn't were found dead in their vehicles. They would have been better off parked in one of the big parking lots in town. Hindsight though.

Ironically in cleaning out one of my email accounts today I found this photo of my Suburban from the past that I grabbed on my way home coming out of Paradise, in the canyon area, with Chico in the background.

griz 11-10-2018 09:50 PM

fyi...paradise is a huge retirement area.

very close to chico, a large college town w/all the modern city amenities.

lake oroville is very close & it had a huge dam issue last year or so.

WarnerConstInc. 11-10-2018 10:21 PM

California seems like a bad place to live. Dangerous

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Big Johnson 11-11-2018 07:54 AM

Yea Between earthquakes, illegals and terrorists shooting you dead and forest fires.

hdavis 11-11-2018 08:27 AM

You guys worry too much.

There are plenty of places in Cali where quakes and fires aren't a big deal.

Pretty much no matter where you live, driving and flooding are the biggest risks.

Caleb1989 11-11-2018 09:51 AM

Also incredible, this is happening in November, not July or August.

We better get some rain soon 🤞


-Caleb

John 3:16[emoji120][emoji119][emoji91]

SmallTownGuy 11-11-2018 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seven-Delta-FortyOne (Post 7406629)
Been following this pretty closely.

I was over at the Cal-Fire station on Thursday, right after it started, and the guys were telling me that they were getting ready to get sent over there.

We sent 10 Strike Teams from Humboldt to Butte.

So now we're stretched pretty thin here. :eek:

In another thread, you waxed poetic on the idyllic life in NorCal.
I voiced my reservations, thinking there might be something you were leaving out.

I believe this is it, Sir.

griz 11-11-2018 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmallTownGuy (Post 7407211)
In another thread, you waxed poetic on the idyllic life in NorCal.
I voiced my reservations, thinking thee might be something you were leaving out.

I believe this is it, Sir.

the nor cal fires are way east of me and 7 delta....

don't forget we are smack dab on the coast and not far from the oregon border...

7 delta is a couple of hours and i'm like 25 minutes...

hdavis 11-11-2018 05:56 PM

I don't think there are many cali contractors on here that have had any big problems with wildfires or quakes. Near as I can tell, Redwood is still in the clear.

It's terrible when it happens, but relatively few are badly effected.

Like when I lived in Texas, I'd see and drive by tornados most years. Mainly a damned nuisance. Flooding could be a real problem, though.

Peter_C 11-11-2018 10:00 PM

2 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by hdavis (Post 7407233)
I don't think there are many cali contractors on here that have had any big problems with wildfires or quakes. Near as I can tell, Redwood is still in the clear.

Do you mean fires from 2015 or 2017? Three years ago we had over 600 acres on our tree farm in Oregon go up in smoke, because someone was too lazy to put out their campfire. My house probably should have burned to the ground in last years fire. Our neighbors house caught fire, and I have many friends that lost their homes. I found multiple large embers in the leaves in the yard. My neighbor emptied his pool completely fighting the fire. One of the flooring suppliers lost their home. People are dying in these terrible fire storms.

hdavis 11-11-2018 10:42 PM

Sounds like you're in a fire prone area, sorry you've got hit.:thumbsup:

Peter_C 11-12-2018 12:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hdavis (Post 7407463)
Sounds like you're in a fire prone area, sorry you've got hit.:thumbsup:

At our house I spent 7 years worrying about fire and preparing for it. I was in the best position out of surrounding homes, and I had pushed hard for them to clear and done a lot of it for my own good, which amounted to acres of clearing/cleaning. What you see in the photo used to be bushes 6+ feet high when I first moved in and the oak trees stopped us from seeing much of the backyard as they touched the ground. I brought the fire department marshal out and did a walking tour with them to ask what I could do, and the only thing he said was instead of cutting then raking grass, take it to bare dirt.

Much of California is fire prone and most homes are not good defensible spaces. That and most homes are made of wood for earthquake resiliency. Contrary to Trumps idea of clearing the forest, with MILLIONS of acres it is impossible. The cost would be staggering. I happen to know a little about tree farming, logging, and land clearing.

We talked last night about in some areas going full prepper with an underground bunker for riding out fires :blink:

Now about those earthquakes :censored:

hdavis 11-12-2018 12:35 AM

I remember you talking about maintaining the area around your house for better fire survivability. I've also read california guidelines for building in fire prone areas. AFAIK, only a concrete and steel structure would handle both esrquakes and fire, but there could be sone tricjs for wood framing.

People who haven't lived there don't understand the situation with the wildfires. I've said it before, the only way yo stop them is terrace all the hills and turn them into rice paddies. You'll still get fires, just not as bad.

Eastern forests could theoretically be controlled burned periodically to lower fire danger, but that isn't really done. We just don't get the ridiculously liw humidity abd high winds, so it isn't such a problem.

Controlled burns out there would just turn into out of control burns.

KAP 11-13-2018 08:52 AM

Wow...
Firefighters lose homes while on front lines of Camp Fire ... https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/fi...D=ansmsnnews11

"At least 53 firefighters have lost their homes to a wildfire in Butte County, and that number is expected to grow.

To see the number of them that were out there fighting the fire knowing that their own homes were lost, it’s unbelievable,” Tim Aboudara with the association said.

He was just blocks away from his own home, engaged in a fire fight, well aware that his own home was probably on fire,” Aboudara said about a firefighter who visited the center. “He had to stay on mission and keep doing his job."

It’s not just firefighters who have lost their homes, but other emergency personnel, police officers and public servants. The mayor of Paradise lost her home and she said the town council, all public works’ employees and the majority of the police force lost their houses, too. "

Seven-Delta-FortyOne 11-13-2018 10:07 AM

Meanwhile, some asshole is doing this locally. :rolleyes:


http://kymkemp.com/2018/11/13/approx...et-fire-chief/


http://kymkemp.com/2018/11/12/six-fi...t-king-salmon/


As God is my witness, I don't know what would stop me from putting a round in someone I saw doing that. :mad: Pisses me off.

deckman22 11-13-2018 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seven-Delta-FortyOne (Post 7408375)
Meanwhile, some asshole is doing this locally. :rolleyes:


http://kymkemp.com/2018/11/13/approx...et-fire-chief/


http://kymkemp.com/2018/11/12/six-fi...t-king-salmon/


As God is my witness, I don't know what would stop me from putting a round in someone I saw doing that. :mad: Pisses me off.

You have my permission.

You really have to wonder about some folks. I think a bullet is the best solution to their problem.

deckman22 11-19-2018 05:37 PM

What a coincidence, the places where the fires are match up exactly to the UN's agenda 21 map designating those areas as uninhabitable. Uncanny!

Big Johnson 11-19-2018 07:54 PM

Isis

hdavis 11-19-2018 08:17 PM

I'm pretty concerned that there are still so many people listed as missing.

deckman22 11-19-2018 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hdavis (Post 7413307)
I'm pretty concerned that there are still so many people listed as missing.

Really sad, many no doubt burned beyond recognition. I suspect many will never be found.

griz 11-19-2018 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seven-Delta-FortyOne (Post 7408375)
Meanwhile, some asshole is doing this locally. :rolleyes:


http://kymkemp.com/2018/11/13/approx...et-fire-chief/


http://kymkemp.com/2018/11/12/six-fi...t-king-salmon/


As God is my witness, I don't know what would stop me from putting a round in someone I saw doing that. :mad: Pisses me off.

those gasquet fires are in my backyard....

sob has been caught....

griz 11-19-2018 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hdavis (Post 7413307)
I'm pretty concerned that there are still so many people listed as missing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by deckman22 (Post 7413331)
Really sad, many no doubt burned beyond recognition. I suspect many will never be found.

where that fire is burning is low foothills w/ lots of scrub oak, manzanita & buck brush.

some areas are VERY remote and VERY poor.

residents do not like outsiders or visitors.

LOTS of cash business in commodities....

there is still marginal cell phone communication & none to limited internet.

one issue/concern with the missing list is that people may be listed numerous times due to different spelling of their names.

i've talked to guys who were there and they are of the opinion that many will/may never be found or identified.

there are likely individuals that will take advantage of the situation to help them "disappear"....

the fire was that hot & that fast.....

Leo G 11-19-2018 11:47 PM

Quote:

California Gov. Jerry Brown appears to have quietly admitted President Donald Trump's suggestion about improving California forestry was correct and is now urging state lawmakers to loosen restrictive logging regulations put in place to appease environmentalists
. :eek::eek:

https://www.dailywire.com/news/38520...-emily-zanotti

griz 11-19-2018 11:51 PM

https://www.foxnews.com/weather/camp...g-sheriff-says

more current news....

none of it is good....

12000+ homes!!!!...wtf...how do you deal with that?

also the redding fire earlier this summer....

the current so cal fires....

and don't forget the santa rosa fire last year.....

paradise fire was not a logging or lack of issue....

Leo G 11-19-2018 11:58 PM

Boom for house builders?

griz 11-20-2018 12:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leo G (Post 7413475)
Boom for house builders?

problem is all the infrastructure, as poor as it was, is gone....

roads, power, water & sewer if they had it, phone, cable/tv/internet is all gone.

remember, this is mostly a very poor depressed area....

many residences were basically substandard....

1956 double wides with several un-permitted additions....

there were also many very nice homes....

santa rosa, a major metropolitan area has barely started to rebuild.

many places are not insured & under insured....

i was in tahoe two years ago where the angora fire came thru in 2007ish....

beautiful area, with many EXPENSIVE homes....

there were still houses being rebuilt....

two solar hybrid homes i built didn't make it....

couldn't even tell they were there....

Calidecks 11-20-2018 12:48 AM

California burning again...
 
There's no place that doesn't have something going on that could be dangerous. Been here 51 years never been burned nor had an earthquake do any harm to me. What's also an issue is the BS third world policies that's turning our cities into ****holes, literally. Full of human feces and dirty used needles. It's a ****ing shame actually.


Mike.
_______________
[emoji631] [emoji631]

Rio 11-20-2018 12:57 AM

A drastic new fire policy is desperately needed. There was a really knowledgeable man on Coast to Coast the other night talking about the stuff we should have been doing all these years and how totally the forests are screwed up now, how nature and the Indians through burning kept the fires groomed for lack of a better word. Stuff that we all pretty much know except for the people in charge it seems like.

One of the really terrifying things he mentioned is the terrorist threat. He said imagine instead of having one point of origin for these horrific conflagrations having a dozen or more at the same time.

We need to have bio mass power plants again and where possible get cranking on thinning these overgrown forests are, with greenbelt defenses against hardened towns. The chaparral country will be a lot harder to deal with, probably just monitored burns with a lot of praying they don't get out of control.

Some of the scenarios he was outlining were terrible to contemplate.

Peter_C 11-20-2018 01:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leo G (Post 7413467)
.
Quote:

California Gov. Jerry Brown appears to have quietly admitted President Donald Trump's suggestion about improving California forestry was correct and is now urging state lawmakers to loosen restrictive logging regulations put in place to appease environmentalists
:eek: :eek:

https://www.dailywire.com/news/38520...-emily-zanotti

Let me know what the value of logging brush is, as that is what causes the fires to burn hot. SoCal fire is mostly brush. I also know how loggers work, they will take the biggest trees and leave all the brush behind, and since they can't burn the piles of slash after logging you now have more fuel on the ground.


Meanwhile...
Quote:

Chief Ken Pimlott, Director of the California Department of Forestry and Fire Protection: "There is about 30 million acres of forested landscape in California, so actually raking the forest floor is not practical."
The ONLY solution is defensible space and proper building materials.

Calidecks 11-20-2018 02:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_C (Post 7413511)
Let me know what the value of logging brush is, as that is what causes the fires to burn hot. SoCal fire is mostly brush. I also know how loggers work, they will take the biggest trees and leave all the brush behind, and since they can't burn the piles of slash after logging you now have more fuel on the ground.





Meanwhile...





The ONLY solution is defensible space and proper building materials.



The value of cutting brush is in the billions.


Mike.
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[emoji631] [emoji631]

WarnerConstInc. 11-20-2018 08:10 AM

That over grown forest floor is nothing more than instant kindling.

Manageable forest practices that involve clearing under brush.

These kinds of fires never use to be a problem.

They had no issues doing controlled burns.

Fire is about the only way the redwoods will regrow, heat makes the cones open up and drop seeds.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

Leo G 11-20-2018 08:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by griz (Post 7413479)
problem is all the infrastructure, as poor as it was, is gone....

roads, power, water & sewer if they had it, phone, cable/tv/internet is all gone.

remember, this is mostly a very poor depressed area....

many residences were basically substandard....

1956 double wides with several un-permitted additions....

there were also many very nice homes....

santa rosa, a major metropolitan area has barely started to rebuild.

many places are not insured & under insured....

i was in tahoe two years ago where the angora fire came thru in 2007ish....

beautiful area, with many EXPENSIVE homes....

there were still houses being rebuilt....

two solar hybrid homes i built didn't make it....

couldn't even tell they were there....

So now they can put the tracks in for the train to nowhere without issues.

Robie 11-20-2018 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Johnson (Post 7413289)
Isis

The Japanese during WWII had quite a program to send incendiary balloons over the west coast to start fires.

They knew 78 years ago the damage/turmoil it would cause. The same holds true today...ten fold.

Rio 11-20-2018 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_C (Post 7413511)
Let me know what the value of logging brush is, as that is what causes the fires to burn hot. SoCal fire is mostly brush. I also know how loggers work, they will take the biggest trees and leave all the brush behind, and since they can't burn the piles of slash after logging you now have more fuel on the ground.


Meanwhile...


The ONLY solution is defensible space and proper building materials.

One part of solving this problem will be to bring back bio mass electrical generation stations, outfit them with the most modern scrubbers, and start from the edge of the urban interface and work into the hills getting this dead growth eliminated.

Like Cali Mike points out up the thread, it's worth billions to be active on this, like Griz points out we're well over 20,000 homes burned out.

As was pointed out on the radio by a fire expert by letting the brush undergrowth build up and the trees to get too dense when we do have fires we often get crown fires which are much more devastating and we lose heirloom trees (that happened with the Witch Creek fire down here not too long ago, trees that had survived fire after fire were burned up). Also the fires burn so hot they sterilize the ground, making it more barren and then there's the run off up north silting up the streams.

It's going to take a multi pronged approach and forest and shrub management has to be part of it in one way or another, by burning and generating electricity we'll be able to recoup some of our costs, be able to develop technology more to make those systems cleaner, and provide jobs to locals for the harvesting and tending the plant.

Put the money we're throwing away on giant wind turbines and put it into this instead along with deep sixing the bullet train to nowhere.

hdavis 11-20-2018 10:11 AM

People saying it can't be done don't add anything.

30 million acres? All that could be burned.

Biomass generation has big trouble complying with EPA regulations, but brush, slash, and small trees are run through chippers all the time. That only works for areas yiu can get equipment in and out.

Different areas would work best with different approaches, but there are multiple approaches available. They all get argued against, so the problem doesn't get better.

Calidecks 11-20-2018 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rio (Post 7413621)
One part of solving this problem will be to bring back bio mass electrical generation stations, outfit them with the most modern scrubbers, and start from the edge of the urban interface and work into the hills getting this dead growth eliminated.



Like Cali Mike points out up the thread, it's worth billions to be active on this, like Griz points out we're well over 20,000 homes burned out.



As was pointed out on the radio by a fire expert by letting the brush undergrowth build up and the trees to get too dense when we do have fires we often get crown fires which are much more devastating and we lose heirloom trees (that happened with the Witch Creek fire down here not too long ago, trees that had survived fire after fire were burned up). Also the fires burn so hot they sterilize the ground, making it more barren and then there's the run off up north silting up the streams.



It's going to take a multi pronged approach and forest and shrub management has to be part of it in one way or another, by burning and generating electricity we'll be able to recoup some of our costs, be able to develop technology more to make those systems cleaner, and provide jobs to locals for the harvesting and tending the plant.



Put the money we're throwing away on giant wind turbines and put it into this instead along with deep sixing the bullet train to nowhere.



Environmentalists are partially to blame. These fires have done more to hurt the environment than probably 100 years of Cali cars. The same goes for the Freeways. The Environmentalists throw up court road blocks anytime they want to widen the freeways. So let's keep the cars in stop and go traffic so the smog gets worse. It's always about the unintended consequences.


Mike.
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[emoji631] [emoji631]

Leo G 11-20-2018 10:23 AM

I'd say environmentalists are mostly to blame. They are the one's working feverishly to stop the logging industry from "raping" the forests of timber. They also make fire breaks, make roads for access into areas that aren't accessible and it wouldn't be to hard to make them clean up the underbrush in areas they are working. After all it's not CA govts money, so it should be easy to mandate it.

Peter_C 11-20-2018 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hdavis (Post 7413643)
People saying it can't be done don't add anything.

The forest can't be raked :whistling

To compare Finland (My mother was born and lived in Finland until her early 20's. The wife and I were there two years ago.) to California is ridiculous. It is a colder and wetter climate that stays green in the summer and frozen solid in the winter. The evergreen trees grow well and are harvested at a rapid pace for paper, and wood products, BUT it is a mostly FLAT country where roads and machinery can access most of it. Fire has never been Finland's issue.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hdavis (Post 7413643)
~ but brush, slash, and small trees are run through chippers all the time. That only works for areas you can get equipment in and out.

It just so happens where there are homes there are roads. So the best place to start chipping is around the homes creating a defensible space. I know in Sonoma, Marin, and Napa counties the fire department REQUIRES the home owners to cut their grass by mid to late June depending on the weather. And yes raking the grass is a good thing.

You don't need to log to clear land. A masticator on a powerful excavator can get the job done, which is what loggers use to clean up the forest. The government subsidizes thinning and cleaning the forest, when grants are available which is not every year. Oregon had to attach it to a Medicaid bill to get it through two years ago, or they would not have funded it. It is still expensive to the private land owners so typically it is done when logging to create an offset in costs. Thankfully being a Certified Tree Farm we get alerted first to funds available.

Infestations of bark beetles (And others), mistletoe, acid rain, and many other issues have been killing the forests across California, and the nation. Tall dead trees burn really well.

If you haven't traveled much in California you may not realize how steep some of the hillsides actually are. There are places you can barely walk up that no heavy equipment can access.

This video gives an idea what I am talking about, and shows the type of scrub brush that is burning fast and hot. You can not remove the scrub brush from the area as it is very bulky, and chipping is the only means of making it small enough to haul, at which point why haul it? Just spray it on the ground, which is what a masticator does.


griz 11-20-2018 01:42 PM

around a home and smaller areas a Fecon machine works great.

it usually mounts on a skid steer and although smaller than what Peter has shown they can clear & mulch a lot of ground.

Peter_C 11-20-2018 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by griz (Post 7413721)
around a home and smaller areas a Fecon machine works great.

it usually mounts on a skid steer and although smaller than what Peter has shown they can clear & mulch a lot of ground.

There are many different types of machines for sure. It is up to each home owner to create a space around their own home.

We did around our houses by hand. I kept asking my neighbor "Don't you own an attachment for you Bobcat?" He replied "No, but I really should buy one". At least he owns a serious chipper that eats 14" trees. I ran the chipper for over 20 hours in the last couple of years just on our property in Sonoma County.

After the Tubb's fire I learned a lot, and that I hadn't done enough, even though our house was spared. Thinking back to the homes that burned you could point at every single one of them and point to the cause of them burning. Often just a burning bush next to the house. My neighbors house was a perfect example. I had many discussions with them about their juniper bushes and that they were a major fire hazard, and strongly recommend they remove them. Sure enough the junipers caught their house on fire. Now the bushes are gone.

Here is an overview video of a few types of land clearing machines.

hdavis 11-20-2018 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_C (Post 7413717)
The forest can't be raked :whistling

Of ,course it can be, I spent a summer working for an Engkish woman who wanted her new to her 3 acre lot looking just like the forests back home. Trees trimmed, brush cut out, old dead trees rotting on the ground, leaves, etc raked out, and the whole thing mown. No power equipment to be used except a chainsaw and a lawn mower.

It's very expensive due to the labor involved. It isn't how I'd manage a forest, but it can be done if you're willing. I don't think you'd find 10M people willing to do that kind of work, it's terrible.

Leo G 11-20-2018 03:59 PM

We have a whole caravan of them at the border looking for work.

SmallTownGuy 11-21-2018 02:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Californiadecks (Post 7413497)
There's no place that doesn't have something going on that could be dangerous. Been here 51 years never been burned nor had an earthquake do any harm to me. What's also an issue is the BS third world policies that's turning our cities into ****holes, literally. Full of human feces and dirty used needles. It's a ****ing shame actually.


Mike.
_______________
[emoji631] [emoji631]

Find somebody that knows what a history book is. A teacher maybe.

Then have them read it to you.

You will learn (and likely not believe) that the cities of today bear no resemblance to the poverty and pallor of years past.

Rio 11-21-2018 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmallTownGuy (Post 7414195)
Find somebody that knows what a history book is. A teacher maybe.

Then have them read it to you.

You will learn (and likely not believe) that the cities of today bear no resemblance to the poverty and pallor of years past.

San Francisco bears no resemblance to the city it was a short 30 years ago. There was a women doctor on the radio yesterday explaining that the 'pooper scooper' crews efforts to pick up the tons of human feces every month there are not effective in eliminating the threat of feces borne diseases. She was explaining, 'you can still get sick without stepping in human poop, it's on a micro scale so the sidewalk might look clean but it isn't'.

What a thing to have to be dealing with, not to mention junkies shooting up in the subway stations, passed out in their own vomit, needles strewn everywhere, etc..


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