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Old 03-21-2019, 07:27 AM   #61
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Re: 737 Crash


They could have done all that when the allowable computer control went from a non disastrous 0.6 degrees to a potentially disastrous 2.5 degrees during flight tests...
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Old 03-21-2019, 07:28 AM   #62
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Re: 737 Crash


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If so, makes you wonder why it wasn't done from the get go.


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I agree, it’s definitely more complicated than that which doesn’t mean BA won’t try to get away with just a software patch. The MCAS was originally limited to 0.6° but the engineers eventually changed it to 2.5°. They must have believed the engine thrust and CG required it. What’s changed there?

One article mentioned the MCAS can pitch the HS 2.5° each time it activates adding up to 5° of pitch. That seems like a it would have been caught long ago and fixed but if not maybe the software fix will limit it to one 2.5° movement.
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Old 03-21-2019, 12:13 PM   #63
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Re: 737 Crash


So, would you like the additional potentially life-saving options with your plane order?

https://nypost.com/2019/03/21/boeing...ented-crashes/
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Old 03-21-2019, 01:13 PM   #64
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Re: 737 Crash


Maybe n o t. You would still have to know what to do and when. Statistically, the light would come on when the MCAS is operating on a good sensor half the time. More, if the non-controlling sensor isn't fixed when it's bad
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Old 03-21-2019, 03:31 PM   #65
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Re: 737 Crash


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So, would you like the additional potentially life-saving options with your plane order?

https://nypost.com/2019/03/21/boeing...ented-crashes/


I see a lot of criticism online over paying for the additional safety feature however let’s remember not too long ago airbags were an option as well in cars

Same could be said about alot of other safety items such as.....

Head rests

Seat belts....

Shoulder harnesses

Anti lock brakes

Passenger side mirrors

Etc etc

All of these were considered premium options back in the day on cars but now we couldnt imagine them not being standard features

Without the government requiring most of those they would still be options to this day

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Old 03-21-2019, 03:41 PM   #66
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Re: 737 Crash


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Originally Posted by Windycity View Post
I Spent alot of time in the L1011 and to this day is/was my favorite aircraft. I have some great memories and experiences because of the L10 A Lemon

Plus we always had fun with the ghost rumors from the salvaged parts from that crashed aircraft


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So you must have missed this, were you a pilot or maintenance?
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Old 03-21-2019, 04:46 PM   #67
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Re: 737 Crash


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So you must have missed this, were you a pilot or maintenance?


Yea i did miss that

None of the above....

I was working in the back and lower galley as a FA on the L10 and other aircraft

Traveled the world serving Coke mostly to our men and women in uniform

At the time the Iraq war was going on and most of my flying was bringing guys in and out of the middle east....The airline I work for did a lot of military charters

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Last edited by Windycity; 03-21-2019 at 04:49 PM.
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Old 03-21-2019, 06:47 PM   #68
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Re: 737 Crash


I don't think that little light us going to make a safer plane. It may help someone who hasn't been adequately trained to find the right page in a checklist. The light isn't going to be as clean of an indicator as one may think. There has only been one published fail showing the actual data. For that particular failure mode, it would have lit up on the ground. The in-flight output actually tracked better at slower speeds. Think takeoff and landing.

I'm not sure which is better, an imperfect indicator, or no indicator. Turning off MCAS due to a false indication gets back to the sudden pitch up issue....

Either way, pilots would have to be trained.
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Old 03-21-2019, 06:58 PM   #69
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Re: 737 Crash


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Originally Posted by hdavis View Post
I don't think that little light us going to make a safer plane. It may help someone who hasn't been adequately trained to find the right page in a checklist. The light isn't going to be as clean of an indicator as one may think. There has only been one published fail showing the actual data. For that particular failure mode, it would have lit up on the ground. The in-flight output actually tracked better at slower speeds. Think takeoff and landing.

I'm not sure which is better, an imperfect indicator, or no indicator. Turning off MCAS due to a false indication gets back to the sudden pitch up issue....

Either way, pilots would have to be trained.
After all this, that's going to be the safest plane in the skies. The pilots will know it inside out, too.
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Old 03-21-2019, 07:00 PM   #70
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Re: 737 Crash


Quote:
Originally Posted by Windycity View Post
I see a lot of criticism online over paying for the additional safety feature however let’s remember not too long ago airbags were an option as well in cars

Same could be said about alot of other safety items such as.....

Head rests

Seat belts....

Shoulder harnesses

Anti lock brakes

Passenger side mirrors

Etc etc

All of these were considered premium options back in the day on cars but now we couldnt imagine them not being standard features

Without the government requiring most of those they would still be options to this day

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Actually that's not true at all. A few lawsuits and they may think twice. It's a system of checks and balances orchestrated through the Justice system vs. Blanket regulations.


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Old 03-21-2019, 07:04 PM   #71
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Re: 737 Crash


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Originally Posted by Joasis View Post
So you must have missed this, were you a pilot or maintenance?


He was a waiter. Lol


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Old 03-21-2019, 07:24 PM   #72
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Re: 737 Crash


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Originally Posted by Calidecks View Post
He was a waiter. Lol


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Stewardess.
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Old 03-21-2019, 07:42 PM   #73
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Re: 737 Crash


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After all this, that's going to be the safest plane in the skies. The pilots will know it inside out, too.

At this point, any pilot for one that doesn't know about it needs to get a different job.
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Old 03-21-2019, 08:16 PM   #74
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Re: 737 Crash


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At this point, any pilot for one that doesn't know about it needs to get a different job.

If Boeing is found culpable, then it will be over one issue, and it won't be the safety one.

As I pointed out, every heavy aircraft is a "type rating", meaning you are qualified to fly that plane....a 737-200 pilot is not qualified to fly a 777, and so on.

Boeing tried to market the Max jet as a plane that essentially needed little training for qualified 737 crews. easy transition, as opposed to extensive time learning another aircraft, but in reality, the Max Jet will be now under it's own type rating, and specific training, already used by Southwest Airlines and others (since the problems have been widely reported, their training works), will be the rule.


A black eye, and maybe an executive will get early retirement.

The People who will get the least will be the Ethiopian crash....because Boeing will say they do not certify one pilot planes, and a co-pilot with 200 hours total time is the same as NO ONE IN THE RIGHT SEAT...the captain had it all by himself.
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Old 03-21-2019, 08:20 PM   #75
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Re: 737 Crash


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If Boeing is found culpable, then it will be over one issue, and it won't be the safety one.

As I pointed out, every heavy aircraft is a "type rating", meaning you are qualified to fly that plane....a 737-200 pilot is not qualified to fly a 777, and so on.

Boeing tried to market the Max jet as a plane that essentially needed little training for qualified 737 crews. easy transition, as opposed to extensive time learning another aircraft, but in reality, the Max Jet will be now under it's own type rating, and specific training, already used by Southwest Airlines and others (since the problems have been widely reported, their training works), will be the rule.


A black eye, and maybe an executive will get early retirement.

The People who will get the least will be the Ethiopian crash....because Boeing will say they do not certify one pilot planes, and a co-pilot with 200 hours total time is the same as NO ONE IN THE RIGHT SEAT...the captain had it all by himself.
So you're blaming a lack of training, right? Who's shoulders does that fall on?
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Old 03-21-2019, 08:22 PM   #76
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Re: 737 Crash


Big business?


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Old 03-21-2019, 08:33 PM   #77
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Re: 737 Crash


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Big business?


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Probably, according to the legal profession. And Boeing will surely blame the airline itself.
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Old 03-22-2019, 05:50 AM   #78
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Re: 737 Crash


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So you're blaming a lack of training, right? Who's shoulders does that fall on?

Go to law school and get on the bus...sue the crap our of Boeing.

I am a layman, with a simple understanding of the issue....very basic.

I gave you my opinion, and it isn't worth much. I am certified to fly turbines, but nothing in this class and weight, and these planes are out of my league and universe....so I am simply like the guy with an idea of what the issues are and what the fix will be.

It was probably a mistake on Boeing's part to run the Max Jet under the 737 TC. Now, who do you want to kill? Line them up and execute them...who?

Had there not been any software issues, NO ONE WOULD HAVE NOTICED A PROBLEM, but obviously, it was discovered.

From what is out in the public domain, it appears that Southwest Airlines was aware of the issues immediately, and Boeing and SW were working on the patch, and training for it.

Now....where things get interesting: When these planes are sold off shore....over seas......the FAA, our watchdogs of aviation here...the Feds...they don't have any input into maintenance. Or training. Now they can stop a plane from entering if it hasn't had the maintenance we require, or crew training, but many planes leave and never return.

So who do we execute? Who do you want to line up now? Blame Trump?




Boeing will defend itself in a court action that will take years to sort out, and they will want this to go away....cancelled orders mean lost jobs and less R&D.....so do you wan to cripple the company so you have a guilty party to stand up at the fence and execute by firing squad?

It is a shame, but if you read back to my first posts, I said training. What led to the planes that had issues not crashing? Pilots knowing what to do. Training.

I don't know who you wan to kill first, but it won't bring anyone back, and a 200 hour pilot is just as guilty as anyone so far. IMO.
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Old 03-22-2019, 06:04 AM   #79
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Re: 737 Crash


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Go to law school and get on the bus...sue the crap our of Boeing.

I am a layman, with a simple understanding of the issue....very basic.

I gave you my opinion, and it isn't worth much. I am certified to fly turbines, but nothing in this class and weight, and these planes are out of my league and universe....so I am simply like the guy with an idea of what the issues are and what the fix will be.

It was probably a mistake on Boeing's part to run the Max Jet under the 737 TC. Now, who do you want to kill? Line them up and execute them...who?

Had there not been any software issues, NO ONE WOULD HAVE NOTICED A PROBLEM, but obviously, it was discovered.

From what is out in the public domain, it appears that Southwest Airlines was aware of the issues immediately, and Boeing and SW were working on the patch, and training for it.

Now....where things get interesting: When these planes are sold off shore....over seas......the FAA, our watchdogs of aviation here...the Feds...they don't have any input into maintenance. Or training. Now they can stop a plane from entering if it hasn't had the maintenance we require, or crew training, but many planes leave and never return.

So who do we execute? Who do you want to line up now? Blame Trump?




Boeing will defend itself in a court action that will take years to sort out, and they will want this to go away....cancelled orders mean lost jobs and less R&D.....so do you wan to cripple the company so you have a guilty party to stand up at the fence and execute by firing squad. It is a shame, but if you read back to my first posts, I said training. What led to the planes that had issues not crashing? Pilots knowing what to do. Training.

I don't know who you wan to kill first, but it won't bring anyone back, and a 200 hour pilot is just as guilty as anyone so far. IMO.
Thanks for clarifying. I just want to understand, not go after anyone for the sake of blame and suing.

Btw, my "thanks" to tang's comment in that regard was to acknowledge the pain that his family is enduring, etc.
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Old 03-22-2019, 03:02 PM   #80
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Re: 737 Crash


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Stewardess.




Im sorry sir what did you call me???

Yea that what is thought...NOW SIT DOWN AND SHUT UP!! ......bitch

Hahaha

ATA flight crew didnt put up with anyones chit



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