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$15 An Hour To Flip Burgers

 
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Old 11-01-2013, 06:54 AM   #421
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Re: $15 An Hour To Flip Burgers


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First off construction can be automated to some extent, prefab homes and CNC cutters are a good example.

The problem with automation in manufacturing is it destroys the mid level jobs. You replace 12 semi skilled people with one button pusher, a maintenance tech a couple floor sweepers...but all the mid level manufacturing jobs move over seas.

So on a global scale there is the same number of people working...but on a local scale there is not.
Again, big picture. The company who makes the machine hires people. The company who transports the machine hires people. It's the circle of life. When one person loses his job to automation, many more may gain one.
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Old 11-01-2013, 06:55 AM   #422
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Re: $15 An Hour To Flip Burgers


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Originally Posted by TNTSERVICES View Post
It wasn't about paying a better employee a better wage, they flip burgers for Pete sake. It's about getting more for not doing more.
EXACTLY WRONG. It was entirely about whether people were willing to pay more for a burger if they got better, quicker more pleasant service
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Old 11-01-2013, 07:08 AM   #423
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Re: $15 An Hour To Flip Burgers


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12 robots * 5 jobs per robot & you just eliminated 60 jobs minus the 2 you created = a 58 employee reduction. And thats just for 1 shift. Triple that and you see the trickledown effects. Create 6 jobs at the cost of several hundred.
You are forgetting about the OTHER employees... designers, fabricators, installers, programmers, salesman, etc... and then there is the competition that springs up...

Which is why the horse buggy / car story is applicable...



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EXACTLY WRONG. It was entirely about whether people were willing to pay more for a burger if they got better, quicker more pleasant service
Isn't the answer to that obvious... no, they are not, otherwise they would all be going to get a real burger at a restaurant, who pay more employees to bring you that burger, instead of all the different fast-food joints to save a buck...

If fast-food COULD charge more, don't you think they would?...

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Old 11-01-2013, 07:33 AM   #424
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Re: $15 An Hour To Flip Burgers


In fact, what does it tell you about the value of the position when one robot can replace 5 workers?

Are you then saying that an employer should have to maintain 5 employees, with all the loaded costs associated with that because they somehow owe them a living?

Whose responsibility is it? The employee to make themselves valuable to an employer by creating a skill set that is marketable or is it just for an employer to provide a job no matter the qualifications?

Because if an employer "owes" an employee a job, then I am sure you are hiring non-skilled employees for yours, right? If an employee is owed a job, why should people not be hired, then increase prices to make unemployment go away?

The same argument for $15, is made for $30... so why should they stop at $15?

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Old 11-01-2013, 09:29 AM   #425
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Re: $15 An Hour To Flip Burgers


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EXACTLY WRONG. It was entirely about whether people were willing to pay more for a burger if they got better, quicker more pleasant service
No it wasn't. The context was the protests at the time. The workers adding for more money. You really should go back and read the entire thread and then news articles during that time.
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Old 11-01-2013, 09:48 AM   #426
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Re: $15 An Hour To Flip Burgers


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You are forgetting about the OTHER employees... designers, fabricators, installers, programmers, salesman, etc... and then there is the competition that springs up...

Which is why the horse buggy / car story is applicable...
And also expansion due to the exponentially higher efficiency, which would be more job generated.
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Old 11-01-2013, 10:19 AM   #427
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Re: $15 An Hour To Flip Burgers


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And also expansion due to the exponentially higher efficiency, which would be more job generated.
Why does greater efficiency necessarily breed permenent job generation (ie, greater demand for labor)?

Not saying it doesn't.... but does it not , at least at first, seem counter intuitive. We become more efficient, which then requires more labor.?
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Old 11-01-2013, 10:27 AM   #428
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Re: $15 An Hour To Flip Burgers


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Originally Posted by tedanderson
So I hear that the paper hat burger flippers of America are demanding more money. I thought of this many years ago when I was considering buying a franchise. I figured that if I pay the big bucks I could get the best workers.. and there would be motivation for being the best worker because there would be a waiting list of 100 people who are friendlyier, smarter, and more polite waiting to take a job from the next person that screws up. I figure that if I paid someone $15-$20/hr to have the best customer service, I'd probably make up the difference in volume because people would drive an extra 15 minutes to buy my fries than from the FF joint up the road. Any thoughts?
You'd probably have to charge $13 a hamburger if you paid every employee that much. It wouldn't work because in fast food you can find women with a good enough customer service to sell the food who will work for minimum wage. Since I grew up in fast food I kind of know how this works.
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Old 11-01-2013, 11:37 AM   #429
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Re: $15 An Hour To Flip Burgers


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No it wasn't. The context was the protests at the time. The workers adding for more money. You really should go back and read the entire thread and then news articles during that time.
The entire thread is what I'm talking about. The thread got derailed almost immediately, I think maybe 3 people answered the question asked. The OP was asking if anyone would pay more for a fast food burger if it came with better service and the better service came from paying more and therefore attracting better employees. Don't read the entire thread...read the original post.

we know that the theory holds true in construction. If you pay more you get experienced skilled tradespeople who put out a quality product and you can in turn charge more. You pay peanuts and you get riffraff that are high and fvck up constantly and you charge the customers accordingly (it doesn't always work like that bit the possibility/probability is there). Ted was asking if the same concept was true in the fast food industry. A few people answered his question and the rest got to talking about minimum wage. And finally a month after, I got KAP and a couple others to answer the question (although maybe undercover boss alreadty answered it for Ted)

Personally I don't think the answer is a resounding NO. There are fast food places that do pay more (still not tons but enough more to be an incentive) and are successful. Also go to a boom town, like Calgary was in the early 2000's, and see what fast food people are making...it's way above minimum wage, but is still in correlation to local wages.

Also to those saying that automation just changes which jobs exist...do you really believe that anyone would go automated just to keep the status quo? no it's for (eventual) cost savings, and if the business is saving money those funds aren't being put back into other jobs. It IS put back somewhat because of the growth of the company, and as dividends to shareholders but if the net worth of the company is increasing then that money is out of the economic loop.

And before anyone says that I'm saying that there shouldn't be automation becasue of job loss etc...I'm saying nothing of the sort..I'm saying that if you want to look at the big picture look at the real big picture. If money is in (profit) then it isn't out (back into the economy)
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Old 11-01-2013, 12:13 PM   #430
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Re: $15 An Hour To Flip Burgers


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Originally Posted by dom-mas View Post

The entire thread is what I'm talking about. The thread got derailed almost immediately, I think maybe 3 people answered the question asked. The OP was asking if anyone would pay more for a fast food burger if it came with better service and the better service came from paying more and therefore attracting better employees. Don't read the entire thread...read the original post.

we know that the theory holds true in construction. If you pay more you get experienced skilled tradespeople who put out a quality product and you can in turn charge more. You pay peanuts and you get riffraff that are high and fvck up constantly and you charge the customers accordingly (it doesn't always work like that bit the possibility/probability is there). Ted was asking if the same concept was true in the fast food industry. A few people answered his question and the rest got to talking about minimum wage. And finally a month after, I got KAP and a couple others to answer the question (although maybe undercover boss alreadty answered it for Ted)

Personally I don't think the answer is a resounding NO. There are fast food places that do pay more (still not tons but enough more to be an incentive) and are successful. Also go to a boom town, like Calgary was in the early 2000's, and see what fast food people are making...it's way above minimum wage, but is still in correlation to local wages.

Also to those saying that automation just changes which jobs exist...do you really believe that anyone would go automated just to keep the status quo? no it's for (eventual) cost savings, and if the business is saving money those funds aren't being put back into other jobs. It IS put back somewhat because of the growth of the company, and as dividends to shareholders but if the net worth of the company is increasing then that money is out of the economic loop.

And before anyone says that I'm saying that there shouldn't be automation becasue of job loss etc...I'm saying nothing of the sort..I'm saying that if you want to look at the big picture look at the real big picture. If money is in (profit) then it isn't out (back into the economy)
There are always under tones and context to deal with in a conversation. This thread was posted at the exact time of the walk out.

A discussion is fluid and there are no rules. If the op didn't see an issue with the evolution of the conversation them why are your panties in a bunch?

And to your point, no companies do not automate for a net neutral job creation. They do it to save money on labor.

But big picture is that while those jobs are list more are created. It may be a smart loss, net neutral or a gain. Point is someone has to make the parts for the machines, shop those parts, assemble those parts, ship the machine, install the machine, service and maintain the machine and so on.

The big picture is innovation has always resulted in economic growth and jov creation.
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Old 11-01-2013, 12:23 PM   #431
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Re: $15 An Hour To Flip Burgers


Domy... Has the thread been derailed into a discussion of derailing...?
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Old 11-01-2013, 01:50 PM   #432
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Re: $15 An Hour To Flip Burgers


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we know that the theory holds true in construction. If you pay more you get experienced skilled tradespeople who put out a quality product and you can in turn charge more.
Except that theory doesnt hold true for a fast food franchise where all the menus are the same and you are essentially just reheating food...Paying people more is not going to gain you some substantially higher quality product when you are locked in on what products you have to offer. You might have less people taking their orders back because they were wrong and have better people persons but thats gonna be about the extent of it.


Now if you were to not go with a fast food franchise and change up your business model then it could work...most "fast food" places that do pay their employees more have a few things in common that the bigger chains dont. Mainly a very slimmed down menu. Hell you could even look at costco and walmarts different business models and they work exactly the same. Costco pays more but offers a tiny fraction of the items that walmart does. They also take advantage of their huge racks and pallets allowing one person to completely restock a shelf in a few hours while at a walmart it will take several people days. They also serve a completely different customer base. Costco caters to higher class clients than walmart who have the money and space to buy in bulk. And they will only locate stores in areas with above a minimum population density.

I think these differing business models hold very much true for fast food as well...and buying an existing mcdonalds and paying the staff more to attract better people while labor is already 1/3 of your cost, as well as the fact that you are serving the same items as every other McDs would seem to be a terrible idea. Especially considering every time McDs adds new funky food items to the menu they do horribly...

If you were looking to get into fast food and make money by attracting better employees with better pay i believe you would have to take much of the advice from this very forum....you would have to set yourself apart from the rest of your competition and cater to a higher paying clientele. I believe most McDs franchisees buy into it because they realize McDonalds has a proven strategy that obviously works incredibly well.
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Old 11-01-2013, 03:48 PM   #433
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Re: $15 An Hour To Flip Burgers


Ok. So if I had a burger joint that only sold burgers and fries.. but it was the kind of burgers that you would have to eat with a knife and fork and a napkin on your lap while some schmuck with a violin serenaded you. To add to that, another schmuck selling flowers puts you in that awkward situation of buying something that you can't say "no" to in front of your girlfriend and the waiter with the rat looking mustache and slicked back hair makes you wear a suit jacket before being seated..

Then I suppose I could pay the crew $20/hr.
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Old 11-01-2013, 03:58 PM   #434
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Re: $15 An Hour To Flip Burgers


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Except that theory doesnt hold true for a fast food franchise where all the menus are the same and you are essentially just reheating food...Paying people more is not going to gain you some substantially higher quality product when you are locked in on what products you have to offer. You might have less people taking their orders back because they were wrong and have better people persons but thats gonna be about the extent of it.


Now if you were to not go with a fast food franchise and change up your business model then it could work...most "fast food" places that do pay their employees more have a few things in common that the bigger chains dont. Mainly a very slimmed down menu. Hell you could even look at costco and walmarts different business models and they work exactly the same. Costco pays more but offers a tiny fraction of the items that walmart does. They also take advantage of their huge racks and pallets allowing one person to completely restock a shelf in a few hours while at a walmart it will take several people days. They also serve a completely different customer base. Costco caters to higher class clients than walmart who have the money and space to buy in bulk. And they will only locate stores in areas with above a minimum population density.

I think these differing business models hold very much true for fast food as well...and buying an existing mcdonalds and paying the staff more to attract better people while labor is already 1/3 of your cost, as well as the fact that you are serving the same items as every other McDs would seem to be a terrible idea. Especially considering every time McDs adds new funky food items to the menu they do horribly...

If you were looking to get into fast food and make money by attracting better employees with better pay i believe you would have to take much of the advice from this very forum....you would have to set yourself apart from the rest of your competition and cater to a higher paying clientele. I believe most McDs franchisees buy into it because they realize McDonalds has a proven strategy that obviously works incredibly well.
Hey it worked...I got someone to answer the question asked.

I don't know about undertones...I like to answer questions asked. Or sometimes I like to try lame jokes
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Old 11-01-2013, 04:31 PM   #435
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Re: $15 An Hour To Flip Burgers


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Hey it worked...I got someone to answer the question asked.

I don't know about undertones...I like to answer questions asked. Or sometimes I like to try lame jokes
Easy enough, now for the real challenge. Get Rob to answer it.

Good Luck
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Old 11-01-2013, 05:35 PM   #436
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Re: $15 An Hour To Flip Burgers


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Hey it worked...I got someone to answer the question asked.

I don't know about undertones...I like to answer questions asked. Or sometimes I like to try lame jokes
Yeah, wonder if I looked over your 3600+ posts, would I find rabbit trails and inference any where? If I asked a question about terrorism after a terrorist attack, wouldn't that be an undertone? You are just being obstinate. There is no rule that I have to answer a the OP. Often times questions are asked to spark a conversation. Conversations are fluid.
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Old 11-01-2013, 05:50 PM   #437
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Re: $15 An Hour To Flip Burgers


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Domy... Has the thread been derailed into a discussion of derailing...?
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Easy enough, now for the real challenge. Get Rob to answer it.

Good Luck
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Apparently. One of my trolls showed up. Funny enough, Dave hasn't answered the question either, yet Dum-mas liked post. I guess it's okay to particpate in Dum-mas's derailments.

Dave, please stick to the OP. Only answer the question the OP asked. Any derailment of the OP's question is not sanctioned by Dum-arse.

Dum-Mas, here is the OP:

"So I hear that the paper hat burger flippers of America are demanding more money.

I thought of this many years ago when I was considering buying a franchise. I figured that if I pay the big bucks I could get the best workers.. and there would be motivation for being the best worker because there would be a waiting list of 100 people who are friendlyier, smarter, and more polite waiting to take a job from the next person that screws up.

I figure that if I paid someone $15-$20/hr to have the best customer service, I'd probably make up the difference in volume because people would drive an extra 15 minutes to buy my fries than from the FF joint up the road.

Any thoughts?"

The only question posed was any thoughts on the subject. Since the first sentence was concerning the current events, we discussed as we saw fit, and it was on topic. The OP never asked a specific question as you assert.
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Old 11-01-2013, 06:05 PM   #438
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Re: $15 An Hour To Flip Burgers


Sorry to participate in the derailment Rob. Just wanted to poke you.

And how do you know I didn't answer the OP directly? Have you checked all the other threads?

Good Luck
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Old 11-01-2013, 06:06 PM   #439
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Re: $15 An Hour To Flip Burgers


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So I hear that the paper hat burger flippers of America are demanding more money.

I thought of this many years ago when I was considering buying a franchise. I figured that if I pay the big bucks I could get the best workers.. and there would be motivation for being the best worker because there would be a waiting list of 100 people who are friendlyier, smarter, and more polite waiting to take a job from the next person that screws up.

I figure that if I paid someone $15-$20/hr to have the best customer service, I'd probably make up the difference in volume because people would drive an extra 15 minutes to buy my fries than from the FF joint up the road.

Any thoughts?
He was talking about a restaurant owner of his own free will and volition paying more for an employee to attract a better employee base. That was it. The question was sparked by what was happening at the time but had NOTHING....NOTHING at all to do with GOVERNMENT INTERFERENCE. Nothing to do with MORE REGULATIONS. It was the opposite...a restaurant owner doing WHAT THEY WANTED TO DO...gasp... pay an employee more than they are regulated to do.

Of course people can discuss whatever they want, but before the first page was over you (TNT) had derailed the thread to whatever YOU thought was the real innuendo. In the last page a few folks have actually discussed the topic...but it's pretty far into the thread.
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Old 11-01-2013, 07:17 PM   #440
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Re: $15 An Hour To Flip Burgers


OK......Any thoughts...... Let me ask a question closely related to the topic:

If God is all powerfull, can he make a burger so big that he can not finish eating it......



(Geeze Dommy..... Wasn't the discussion pretty darn interesting and certainly a contemporary/important topic....that apparently pretty many people enjoyed.)

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