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Temporary Rafter Support For Clipped Ceiling

 
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Old 09-11-2013, 08:45 PM   #1
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Temporary Rafter Support For Clipped Ceiling


Greetings! I was hoping a few of you guys might be able to help me out.

I have 18' feet of exterior wall damaged by termites. Top Plate to bottom will need to be replaced. Exterior siding will naturally be torn off as well.

The ceiling has been clipped to approximately 10' and the joists/rafter connection is 10d (x4). I am needing to support the roof while replacing the exterior wall; a few hours, tops. The floor under the majority of the relevant roof section is slab concrete, allowing any form of support and the rest is hardwood with sufficient floor joists support.

I am Needing a proper way to secure plumb bracing (temp wall) to an 8:12 slope that will properly support the roof weight as well as negate outward roll tendencies. I am hesitant to brace directly under the ceiling joists as the x4 10d's are designed primarily to hold the rafters postioning and not to also carry the dead load of associated roof square.

I have considered attaching a reinforced, double 2x6 perpendicular to the rafters and directly under the joist intersection to act as a cleat. Then placing a 2x6 temp wall with double top plate under the cleat, but angled properly to sit flush with the rafters. This would appear to handle the downward roof drive, but makes me a bit nervous regarding the potential outward thrust. then again, as long as the joists remain in tact, I am not confident how it could roll.
I also considered removing the exterior soffit in hopes of revealing the rafter tails. Simple wall under the tails and pull the damage inside the house and replace from within as well. But I am not confident the tails will hold the weight. I have never tried it.

Anyway, could use some ideas. As I said, once installed, I should have the wall back in place shortly. I will be unable to prebuild prior so I will be throwing sticks in.

Note:
Ceiling Drawn/Stamped by SE
Approved 2009 IRC
Inspections will be done
Joists installed prior to termite damage being revealed- Tried to save some rock- Rafters have dropped in some areas due to rotted top plate. Ceiling joists installed level (creating possible wave in finish taping but only visible if pressed against the wall and looking up- Had to choose the lesser of two evils) 'Righting' the rafters now will throw the ceiling joist out of level.

I have also considered righting the rafters while replacing wall, cutting the joists in place, reinstalling with butt joint and Plywood Gusset. This is the last time I install with joists with face overlap! Ugggh.

Photos attached and thanks for you time

I am new to the site so feel free to educate me if I have posted incorrectly or missed something.
Attached Thumbnails
Temporary Rafter Support for Clipped Ceiling-image-1.jpeg   Temporary Rafter Support for Clipped Ceiling-image2.jpeg   Temporary Rafter Support for Clipped Ceiling-image3.jpeg   Temporary Rafter Support for Clipped Ceiling-image4.jpeg  
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Old 09-11-2013, 08:53 PM   #2
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Re: Temporary Rafter Support For Clipped Ceiling


Heck of a first post.

How about dropping by the Introduction section and telling us a little about yourself & your business.

You are a Contractor aren't you?

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Old 09-11-2013, 09:40 PM   #3
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Re: Temporary Rafter Support For Clipped Ceiling


Appreciate the note. Introduction made. I will get to work on updating the profile and finding an appropriate photo as well.
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Old 09-12-2013, 07:32 AM   #4
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Re: Temporary Rafter Support For Clipped Ceiling


How do you plan on jacking - beam running in pockets, something else?
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Old 09-12-2013, 09:28 AM   #5
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Re: Temporary Rafter Support For Clipped Ceiling


Not Sure where to Jack. If placing support wall under the tails, then I will jack near the joist/rafter with a cleat and 4x4 or 4x6- bottle jacks. If placing the wall near the joist/rafter then I could jack just inside that or even place bottle jacks inside the temp wall itself and use the top plate for lift. I guess that's where I am stuck.... Where to place the wall. Once confident with that, the lifting can happen almost anywhere as I only need a 1/2" and not for very long. Lifting the tails on older rafters does not sit well with me, so that's probably out.
Do you have any suggestions?
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Old 09-12-2013, 03:13 PM   #6
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Re: Temporary Rafter Support For Clipped Ceiling


Quote:
Originally Posted by TLyon View Post
I have considered attaching a reinforced, double 2x6 perpendicular to the rafters and directly under the joist intersection to act as a cleat. Then placing a 2x6 temp wall with double top plate under the cleat, but angled properly to sit flush with the rafters.
I'd feel confident with that. You're just moving your point of support inward a bit, and if anything there'd be slightly less outward thrust.

The trickier part is isolating the section you're lifting from the "undisturbed" areas.
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Old 09-12-2013, 04:01 PM   #7
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Re: Temporary Rafter Support For Clipped Ceiling


Don't jack or support under the rafter tails, go inboard.

I don't see why you can't preassemble most of the wall on the inside with the top plate marked but not in place. Personally, I like temporary supports to be as temporary as possible.

Good luck. I'd recommend you get someone who has some experience to take a look and do some hand holding, even if it takes a few dollars.
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Old 09-12-2013, 04:22 PM   #8
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Re: Temporary Rafter Support For Clipped Ceiling


I've had somewhat a similar termite replacement issue on my son's place but maybe only replacing 4' of wall....and we had very nominal rafter drop.... but we had interior drywall we wanted in minimize repairs on.....basically did it as you are planning... no problems

I think your idea as Tin spoke of would be fine... I can't really see the problem ...or any problem.

I don't think you're going to have any problem.

Have as much of your new wall organized/built ready to go as possible

I'd just jack it slowly...let it rack/walk/settle back into position.

I'm confused as to your idea of releveling your ceiling joists (cut and gusset them back together?) Can't you just re-set them.... or shim them down....?

Good luck

Edit PS: I'm sure you've closely inspected your rafters/birdsmouth seat/tails so you know if you have to do any sistering.
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Last edited by MTN REMODEL LLC; 09-12-2013 at 04:29 PM.
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Old 09-12-2013, 08:59 PM   #9
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Re: Temporary Rafter Support For Clipped Ceiling


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Originally Posted by Tinstaafl View Post
I'd feel confident with that. You're just moving your point of support inward a bit, and if anything there'd be slightly less outward thrust.

The trickier part is isolating the section you're lifting from the "undisturbed" areas.
Agreed. Hoping to slowly work my way across, jacking 10' sections at a time... jacking as little as possible. Thanks for the response.
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Old 09-12-2013, 09:02 PM   #10
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Re: Temporary Rafter Support For Clipped Ceiling


Bang 3-4 more 16d at that collar tie/rafter connection.

Jack it up & build your temp wall w/a flat top plate bearing on the collar tie against the rafter.
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Old 09-12-2013, 09:11 PM   #11
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Re: Temporary Rafter Support For Clipped Ceiling


Quote:
Originally Posted by griz View Post
Bang 3-4 more 16d at that collar tie/rafter connection.

Jack it up & build your temp wall w/a flat top plate bearing on the collar tie against the rafter.
Yeah.... That too... I don't think you even need the 16D's.... they won' t hurt, unless you want to relevel that ceiling....what do ya have for roofing...it's not 11 lb concrete is it.
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Old 09-12-2013, 09:11 PM   #12
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Re: Temporary Rafter Support For Clipped Ceiling


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Originally Posted by hdavis View Post
Don't jack or support under the rafter tails, go inboard.

I don't see why you can't preassemble most of the wall on the inside with the top plate marked but not in place. Personally, I like temporary supports to be as temporary as possible.

Good luck. I'd recommend you get someone who has some experience to take a look and do some hand holding, even if it takes a few dollars.
Thanks for the response. In light of the rafters settling at different heights and the joists getting out of whack by righting the rafters, I had originally hoped to keep them in place by thowing sticks in vs a prebuild. I no longer see the point and am just going to prebuild the wall, 'right' them and knock her in place when ready. I will just have to address each rafter individually once setting them back in place. So... you're right... prebuild is the way to go.
Unfortunatley, I think I have spent enough $$ staring at it with hands on hips and head cocked. ha! I was confident with everything except the fastening of a plumb, vertical wall to an 8/12 slope; potentially allowing shift. I have always lifted from the joists in the past. I guess the raised joists should hold just as the standard joists have (sitting on a top plate), but I am hesitant to lift them. Its just one of those things. Every once in a while you get jammed up on something small when in reality, your existing prep is usually overkill anyway. I'm in and out in a matter of hours. No worries. Either way, thanks for taking the time to respond.
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Old 09-12-2013, 09:31 PM   #13
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Re: Temporary Rafter Support For Clipped Ceiling


It sounds like the consensus here is just to get over myself and support the damn things by the joists. I think I will hold off placing any more fasteners at the connection though in fear of splitting. This is a standard roof, standard dead load and I think I am over thinking this. 1/2" is all I need and for only an hour or two; prebuild, but shimming will take some time. I think I am going to install the 'cleat' and see how it goes. For one reason or another, placing the support just under the connection and on the rafters sounds like my plan of attack.

I sincerely appreciate all of your comments and will keep you posted. Pulling over for directions have never been so easy.
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Old 09-12-2013, 09:56 PM   #14
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Re: Temporary Rafter Support For Clipped Ceiling


Quote:
Originally Posted by griz
Bang 3-4 more 16d at that collar tie/rafter connection.

Jack it up & build your temp wall w/a flat top plate bearing on the collar tie against the rafter.
Bingo. I'd nail a temporary top plate up to the bottom of the joists against the rafter and then cut the temporary support studs about a quarter long and knock them in straight, one under each joist. There's your jacking up. Should be all you need. If you just do 10-12 feet at a time it's no prob.
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Old 09-12-2013, 10:57 PM   #15
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Re: Temporary Rafter Support For Clipped Ceiling


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Bingo. I'd nail a temporary top plate up to the bottom of the joists against the rafter and then cut the temporary support studs about a quarter long and knock them in straight, one under each joist. There's your jacking up. Should be all you need. If you just do 10-12 feet at a time it's no prob.
Hmmm... Another firm vote for going right under the joists. It definitely would be a lot easier and save time as well. Thanks for the comment.
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Old 09-12-2013, 11:09 PM   #16
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Re: Temporary Rafter Support For Clipped Ceiling


Quote:
Originally Posted by MTN REMODEL LLC View Post
I've had somewhat a similar termite replacement issue on my son's place but maybe only replacing 4' of wall....and we had very nominal rafter drop.... but we had interior drywall we wanted in minimize repairs on.....basically did it as you are planning... no problems

I think your idea as Tin spoke of would be fine... I can't really see the problem ...or any problem.

I don't think you're going to have any problem.

Have as much of your new wall organized/built ready to go as possible

I'd just jack it slowly...let it rack/walk/settle back into position.

I'm confused as to your idea of releveling your ceiling joists (cut and gusset them back together?) Can't you just re-set them.... or shim them down....?

Good luck

Edit PS: I'm sure you've closely inspected your rafters/birdsmouth seat/tails so you know if you have to do any sistering.
I inspected the rafters, not only for termite damage but also for knots and cracks that could be a problem when lifting. Good to go on both.
I'm not confident why the little bastards stopped at the top plate, but they did. From the trails, it looks like they advanced up the studs and then turned left and right at the top plate.
There was a large, rotted tree on the property when I purchased it. I knew I was in trouble when my chain saw whipped through the heartwood like butter. Treated the stump one month prior to removal as well as trenched the property. Lets hope I got them all. I had no idea of the damage waiting for me inside the wall. "Surprise... You've won 18' of damaged exterior wall and here's our operator Judy to tell you about it!". I am expecting some Rim Joist issues for the framed portion of the floor as well. Thanks for the comment.
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Old 09-12-2013, 11:12 PM   #17
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Re: Temporary Rafter Support For Clipped Ceiling


With the time you have spent on this thread you could have jacked that wall up and been done...
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Old 09-12-2013, 11:22 PM   #18
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Re: Temporary Rafter Support For Clipped Ceiling


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With the time you have spent on this thread you could have jacked that wall up and been done...
Ha. Very true. And with the mobile app I can just sit down at the job site and waste even more time!

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