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Questions On Tiled Shower

 
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Old 08-30-2007, 08:36 PM   #1
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Questions On Tiled Shower


Hey all- new to the forum I am a plumbing/electric/ remodeling contractor, specializing in kitchens and baths. Need some feedback- I'll try to keep a long story short. I got a call couple of weeks ago about a leaking 2nd floor shower. Shower leaked and brought down the living room ceiling. Customer had a "tile contractor" come and look at it- he thought the pan was shot (shower was all tile) he replaced the pan and the first 2 rows of tile. But this didn't fix the problem- shower still leaked. I could see a lot of missing grout on the shower walls and told the homeowner the whole shower had to come out and be redone. I was given the go ahead to proceed. I have done quite a bit of tile work but I've only been doing about 8 years and usually I do tile work as part of an entire remodel. So here's my questions for you guys that have been tiling for awhile.
1. - When I demo'd the shower here is what I found- the original installer stapled metal lath directly to the studs, no plywood plastic or felt paper, They mudded directly over the lath @ 1" thick and tiled on top of that. The mud had the consistency and hardness of chalk I could literally crumble it in my hands. This house is a 800,000$ + house built @30 years ago. So my question is was this installation ever acceptable? I would never do it today but was it common practice at any point?
2. 2nd question the tile guy who replaced the pan also seemed questionable. First layer of deck mud was applied directly over plywood, no felt paper, no lath, PVC liner laid in corners not glue, didn't redo the curb, just removed inside tile and laid liner up the edge, also unsure of the thought of redoing just the pan and first 2 rows of tile- isn't the transition between the new tile and the old tile a little questionable?- So bottom line did they get ripped off by the first tile guy?
3. Question how much should a standard, 36X36 shower stall, with tiled pan, walls and ceiling (standard ceramic 4X4 tile, nothing fancy) cost including complete demo and rebuild. I know everybody hates the how much does it cost question, but like I said I usually do these as part of a total remodel and I quess I am starting to get a little nervous about how much time I have in this and what the final cost is going to be.
4. Final question- since this is all going end up in the insurance companies hands where can I find some standards and codes reference to show the original install was faulty (if indeed it is)
Sorry for the long post, but I will be happy for any feedback you can give me.
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Old 08-30-2007, 10:53 PM   #2
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Re: Questions On Tiled Shower


1 - I've seen a lot of what you are describing, with the exception of the chaulky part of it.

2 - sounds okay but a lot could depend on the exact details of how it was done

3 - a lot. Hey what did you expect?

4 TCNA http://www.tileusa.com/

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Old 08-31-2007, 06:39 AM   #3
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Re: Questions On Tiled Shower


at 36"x36" you could replace with showers other than tile, but if they prefer tile
9 sq ft mud base @ 45 ea+ 405.00
tile 9 sq ft floor @ 8 72.00
tile 63 ft wall w/ [email protected] 9 567.00
72 sq ft tile @ 5.50 396.00
--------
$1440.00 (job cost)
mark up 964.00
----------
$2404.80
demo/dump fee (2nd floor) 450.00
-----------
$2854.80 sell price(not less than)
frameless swingset door (clear or obscure) 350.00
new moen p/b shower valve (chrome) 400.00
------------
$ 3604.80
add for anything other than the norm
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Old 08-31-2007, 09:06 AM   #4
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Re: Questions On Tiled Shower


Quote:
Originally Posted by go dart View Post
at 36"x36" you could replace with showers other than tile, but if they prefer tile
9 sq ft mud base @ 45 ea+ 405.00
tile 9 sq ft floor @ 8 72.00
tile 63 ft wall w/ [email protected] 9 567.00
72 sq ft tile @ 5.50 396.00
--------
$1440.00 (job cost)
mark up 964.00
----------
$2404.80
demo/dump fee (2nd floor) 450.00
-----------
$2854.80 sell price(not less than)
frameless swingset door (clear or obscure) 350.00
new moen p/b shower valve (chrome) 400.00
------------
$ 3604.80
add for anything other than the norm
Your hired.......can you fly out to California and do mine for that price
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Old 08-31-2007, 09:06 AM   #5
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Re: Questions On Tiled Shower


The scary part of all this which I forgot to mention was actually it sounds like all this shower required was a regrouting of the walls where the grout was compromised.
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Old 08-31-2007, 09:53 AM   #6
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Re: Questions On Tiled Shower


I hope you're not waiting for ins $. If so, expect to wait a loooooooooooong time. Insurance would pay to repair damage to the living room ceiling, the damage that resulted from the leak. This is likely to be less than the deductible. No insurance I've heard of will pay to fix the problem. That's maintenance and is covered by the owner.
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Old 08-31-2007, 05:07 PM   #7
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Re: Questions On Tiled Shower


Thanks for the replies they have been helpful. Mike- believe me regrouting would only have bought a little time - there was substantial water damage. The curb was completely rotted and disintegrating. The wood decking under the pan was completely rotting out, I had to replace all the rotted wood with new 3/4 plywood. Besides I was under the impression the grout itself is not waterproof nor intended to be a water barrier, which is why we typically use felt paper or plastic over the studs and concrete backer board and at times a brush on waterproof membrane over top of that. Maybe I am overdoing it?-
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Old 09-05-2007, 08:31 PM   #8
 
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Re: Questions On Tiled Shower


I did that exact same job, except my shower was 4' X 3'.
I replaced everything, removed the walls to the framing and had to remove half of the flooring down to the joists because it had been wet for so long. I did not replace any shower controls however. Customer supplied the tile and grout I supplied everything else, final price 3215.00 .

I haven't make 15 posts yet, or I would post photos of the work, once I have 15 I'll edit this post.

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Old 09-05-2007, 08:55 PM   #9
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Re: Questions On Tiled Shower


Did anyone ever open the ceiling up downstairs to ensure it wasn't a plumbing leak?
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Old 09-06-2007, 05:45 PM   #10
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Re: Questions On Tiled Shower


Yes when I was first called in it was to check that very thing. I spent about two hours trying to trace it down. I was confused because they had just had someone in to replace the shower pan so I didn't think it could be the shower. A large chunk of the ceiling had actually fallen down and I removed some more to really check out the plumbing. Checked and checked couldn't find anything, finally turned on the shower and let it run for about 10 minutes- Bingo- there's my leak.- BTW the info on recent job costs was very helpful from what's been written I should be right on target- feel much better!:
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Old 09-10-2007, 08:54 AM   #11
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Re: Questions On Tiled Shower


Quote:
Originally Posted by ksensen View Post
I was confused because they had just had someone in to replace the shower pan so I didn't think it could be the shower.


Not everyone knows how to properly install a shower pan, and make it waterproof. They may have sealed the weep holes(very common when they don't really know what they are doing)

Grout is not waterproof,

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