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Enclosing Garage Doors

 
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Old 10-24-2018, 03:35 PM   #1
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Enclosing Garage Doors


Ok, this is something I’ve never dealt with before, so I need some direction.

We’re looking at a project (basement refinish). Complete gut and redo. The home originally had a two-car garage – under the first floor of the house (basement level). The previous homeowner had the garage portion finished along with the basement portion of the basement level – a real “wall of shame” type hack/homeowner project – no permits.

The two garage door openings were simply framed in, insulated, drywalled (interior) and sided (exterior). Currently, when it rains or snows, water comes in under the wall and saturates the baseboard and carpeting.

Do I need to put grade beams in where the doors were? Is there another way to handle this?
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Old 10-24-2018, 03:39 PM   #2
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Re: Enclosing Garage Doors


Quote:
Originally Posted by DaVinciRemodel View Post
Ok, this is something I’ve never dealt with before, so I need some direction.

We’re looking at a project (basement refinish). Complete gut and redo. The home originally had a two-car garage – under the first floor of the house (basement level). The previous homeowner had the garage portion finished along with the basement portion of the basement level – a real “wall of shame” type hack/homeowner project – no permits.

The two garage door openings were simply framed in, insulated, drywalled (interior) and sided (exterior). Currently, when it rains or snows, water comes in under the wall and saturates the baseboard and carpeting.

Do I need to put grade beams in where the doors were? Is there another way to handle this?
Pics?

Driveway slanted toward the garage?

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Old 10-24-2018, 03:49 PM   #3
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Re: Enclosing Garage Doors


it would be best to saw cut the slab across the old opening, remove it, pour a footing & stem wall.

if the driveway should slope back towards the structure you will likely need to add a trench drain.
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Old 10-24-2018, 03:51 PM   #4
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Re: Enclosing Garage Doors


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Pics?

Driveway slanted toward the garage?
No pics yet, but even if I had them, it looks like a finished exterior/interior. The driveway slopes away – very, very little. Not enough.
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Old 10-24-2018, 03:58 PM   #5
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Re: Enclosing Garage Doors


May be able to skip the drain - but I'd definitely pour a small footing/stem wall in the openings AND flash it with coil that goes above the height of the stem walls and probably Grace in front of that

If I can find some pics I did one like 6 years ago that we kerfed the concrete and had the roofer bend the flashing to slip in the cut while he was installing standing seam for us there.

Worked well
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No pics yet, but even if I had them, it looks like a finished exterior/interior. The driveway slopes away – very, very little. Not enough.
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Old 10-24-2018, 04:07 PM   #6
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Re: Enclosing Garage Doors


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Originally Posted by griz View Post
it would be best to saw cut the slab across the old opening, remove it, pour a footing & stem wall.

if the driveway should slope back towards the structure you will likely need to add a trench drain.
The existing house sits on caissons. Due to our soils, we don’t have too many structures built on footings. I think I would need to saw cut the slab, excavate, place a void then pour a grade beam between the caissons (epoxy pinned to the existing caissons/grade beams). I’d need to get the sill plate 8” above the grade.
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Old 10-24-2018, 04:18 PM   #7
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Re: Enclosing Garage Doors


Quote:
Originally Posted by DaVinciRemodel View Post
The existing house sits on caissons. Due to our soils, we don’t have too many structures built on footings. I think I would need to saw cut the slab, excavate, place a void then pour a grade beam between the caissons (epoxy pinned to the existing caissons/grade beams). I’d need to get the sill plate 8” above the grade.
sounds about right.

why can't you form a stem wall on top of the grade beam?
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Old 10-24-2018, 04:23 PM   #8
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Re: Enclosing Garage Doors


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sounds about right.

why can't you form a stem wall on top of the grade beam?
In thinking about it, we are probably talking about the same thing - just different terms.

In reality, I was hoping you guys had some type of miracle solution - not requiring digging. I hate digging - even when I don't have to do it
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Old 10-24-2018, 04:28 PM   #9
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Re: Enclosing Garage Doors


no miracle solution i know of....

cut, dig & cuss.....
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Old 10-24-2018, 07:26 PM   #10
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Re: Enclosing Garage Doors


Well, in my opinion, digging is not necessary.
Just pour a stem wall the same height that the existing stem walls are at, in the door opening. slope the earth away from the new stem wall of course. This will take care of most of the water that may try to migrate under the new stem wall pour.
Make sure the new stem wall in at least 6" high.
Your biggest problem, of course, will be making sure the new concrete is sealed well enough against the old.
I don't see the need for a new footing under the framed opening.

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Old 10-24-2018, 07:35 PM   #11
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Re: Enclosing Garage Doors


Water will infiltrate the cold joint eventually is why id pour it
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Originally Posted by ScipioAfricanus View Post
Well, in my opinion, digging is not necessary.
Just pour a stem wall the same height that the existing stem walls are at, in the door opening. slope the earth away from the new stem wall of course. This will take care of most of the water that may try to migrate under the new stem wall pour.
Make sure the new stem wall in at least 6" high.
Your biggest problem, of course, will be making sure the new concrete is sealed well enough against the old.
I don't see the need for a new footing under the framed opening.

Andy.
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Old 10-24-2018, 09:03 PM   #12
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Re: Enclosing Garage Doors


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Water will infiltrate the cold joint eventually is why id pour it

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That's true, unless you saw cut a thin keyway, and Sika in a water stop. Just saying, there are ways.
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Old 10-24-2018, 11:25 PM   #13
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Re: Enclosing Garage Doors


Quote:
Originally Posted by ScipioAfricanus View Post
Well, in my opinion, digging is not necessary.
Just pour a stem wall the same height that the existing stem walls are at, in the door opening. slope the earth away from the new stem wall of course. This will take care of most of the water that may try to migrate under the new stem wall pour.
Make sure the new stem wall in at least 6" high.
Your biggest problem, of course, will be making sure the new concrete is sealed well enough against the old.
I don't see the need for a new footing under the framed opening.

Andy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by shanewreckd View Post
That's true, unless you saw cut a thin keyway, and Sika in a water stop. Just saying, there are ways.
will argue the keyway/sealant method to the death.....

it fails in freeze/thaw country if you do not provide a footing/stem wall system that eliminates the sealed/keyway/cold joint system.


water & ice are an incredible adversary....


may work in some parts of the country, but is not a bullet proof remedy.
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Old 10-25-2018, 06:45 PM   #14
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Re: Enclosing Garage Doors


So, I talked to my engineer about this today and he gave me a couple of options for handling the garage door opening (basically what we discussed above). But then he blew my mind when I described what I wanted to do about the slope in the concrete garage floor.

Let me set a quick stage here:

• The garage floor portion of the basement slopes by approx. 4-1/2” over 27’.

• The bottom riser on the stairs from the upper floor is 10-1/2” (all the other risers are 7-1/2”).

• The stairs land on the highest part of the concrete – back of the garage. So, I have 3” that I can raise the floor in the back and 7-1/2” in the front (nearest the garage doors).

• My plan was to install sleepers 6-1/2” in depth that tapered down to 2” to level the floor. This entire sleeper floor would then be shimmed (with plastic shims approx. ¼”) to the appropriate height (add ¾” subfloor to leave me with my first 7-1/2” riser). All of this over a 6-mil poly vapor barrier sheet. Note: this sleeper floor structure is not attached to anything – not attached to the slab, the foundation… nothing. It literally floats on and with the slab.

• I would leave the mechanicals (furnace, water heater and water purification system) sitting on the concrete in the unfinished utility closet (approx. 4’ x 10’).

• We would then use rigid foam between the sleepers to create an insulation barrier.

• All of the walls would need a 3” slip joint at the bottom plates (that is standard procedure here) to allow the slab/floor to rise/fall without affecting the structure above.

After I described this to him, he said “No”! I was dumbfounded. He reasoned that that was a hack job and he would not stamp it. I pushed him on his reasoning and he just said take it to the county, but there’s no way they will approve a sleepered floor either.

Am I missing something here? This seemed like the simple part of the project.
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Old 10-25-2018, 08:12 PM   #15
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Re: Enclosing Garage Doors


Did he have any suggestions?
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Old 10-25-2018, 08:29 PM   #16
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Re: Enclosing Garage Doors


Just put down the poly-vinyl and then pour the floor.

Make life easy for yourself, it would be cheaper also.

Andy.

Last edited by ScipioAfricanus; 10-25-2018 at 09:50 PM.
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Old 10-25-2018, 08:38 PM   #17
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Re: Enclosing Garage Doors


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Just put down the poly-vinyl and then pour the floor.

Make life easy for your self, it would be cheaper also.

Andy.
That's a pour over for sure.

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Old 10-26-2018, 08:11 AM   #18
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Re: Enclosing Garage Doors


Quote:
Originally Posted by ScipioAfricanus View Post
Just put down the poly-vinyl and then pour the floor.

Make life easy for yourself, it would be cheaper also.

Andy.
That's a good idea but I wonder if at the 2" side it might not be thick enough as with the poly vapor barrier there won't be any connection between the new and old concrete, might feel a little loose?
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Old 10-26-2018, 08:26 AM   #19
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Re: Enclosing Garage Doors


Quote:
Originally Posted by ScipioAfricanus View Post
Just put down the poly-vinyl and then pour the floor.

Make life easy for yourself, it would be cheaper also.

Andy.
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Originally Posted by WarnerConstInc. View Post
That's a pour over for sure.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rio View Post
That's a good idea but I wonder if at the 2" side it might not be thick enough as with the poly vapor barrier there won't be any connection between the new and old concrete, might feel a little loose?
Never done anything like this before. Walk me through this. You have my attention.

Rio, it would be 3" using this method
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Old 10-26-2018, 08:41 AM   #20
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Re: Enclosing Garage Doors


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That's a good idea but I wonder if at the 2" side it might not be thick enough as with the poly vapor barrier there won't be any connection between the new and old concrete, might feel a little loose?
It will feel fine at 2".

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