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Curbless Shower Large Format Tile

 
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Old 04-01-2019, 06:59 AM   #1
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Curbless Shower Large Format Tile


I have a project coming up where I need a 36" wide x 60" long curbless shower linear drain install.

Problem is shower is open on one side and along front limiting pan thickness.

I have looked at Arc trudeck, too small of a pan 32x51, Wedi and Kerdi both would be too thick and need a curb along one side which client may be ok with. I have used VIM center drain but client wants big tiles.

Any others out there that would work?

I am planning on removing sub floor, cleating joists etc... so I have 3/4" recess. Rest of floor will get ditra heat and Nuheat cables.
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Old 04-01-2019, 07:52 AM   #2
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Re: Curbless Shower Large Format Tile


Locating the drain on the long outside wall?

You can do a center drain with large format, just have to cut the "hip" tiles.

Are you heating the shower floor?

If you're not heating the shower floor use the 76x38x 1-5/8 Schluter pan, by the time you trim off the 2" you'll be at 1-9/16, add the heat mat height to the bathroom floor and you're at approx 1-1/8" height, slice the balance off top of the pan, cover cut area with Kerdi.

Make sure you install a wicking barrier between the pan area and main floor. I use Dilex expansion strip.

Easy peezey.

Link to the Schluter trays;

https://www.schluter.com/schluter-us/en_US/ShowerTrays

Tom

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Old 04-01-2019, 11:44 AM   #3
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Re: Curbless Shower Large Format Tile


Hey Tom was hoping you would chime in. No heat on shower floor as I think that may build it too much with addition of ditra heat membrance on top of pan.

Best choice for them would be valve wall location. My choice would be at long back wall versus glass door.

I was looking at the 76x38 as it seems to be the best choice as I think your correct that by the time I cut it down to 60x36 I would lose enough thickness to be close and could shave down pan and cover with Kerdi.

thanks!
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Old 04-01-2019, 08:36 PM   #4
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Re: Curbless Shower Large Format Tile


If you're going shower valve wall, you'll need the 36x72 not the 76x38. By the time you trim it to 60" it will be 2" tall.

This job is in Highlands Ranch.

Show them these pictures, you can see the pitch and how it interacts with the room floor. I don't uses the Schluter trim for this, I cut the pitch on the tile. You have to start at the low point, this means trimming the tile on the level floor.

The gray line at the exit of the shower is the Dilex I used for the wicking barrier.

This shower floor is heated. I use Ditra Heat cable.

Tom
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Curbless Shower Large Format Tile-img_1586.jpg   Curbless Shower Large Format Tile-img_1669.jpg   Curbless Shower Large Format Tile-img_1792.jpg   Curbless Shower Large Format Tile-img_1786.jpg   Curbless Shower Large Format Tile-img_1709.jpg  

Curbless Shower Large Format Tile-img_1790.jpg  
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Old 04-01-2019, 09:44 PM   #5
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Re: Curbless Shower Large Format Tile


As I mentioned large format is possible.

First photo is my work (8x8 is not really large format by definition), the other two are used with permission of the installers.

Tom
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Curbless Shower Large Format Tile-img_1126-1-.jpg   Curbless Shower Large Format Tile-56319180_2424813144195959_6762747361300054016_n.jpg   Curbless Shower Large Format Tile-55835436_10216853601105701_2563301555302301696_n.jpg  
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Old 04-01-2019, 10:02 PM   #6
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Re: Curbless Shower Large Format Tile


Again, using with permission.

Tom
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Old 04-02-2019, 06:35 AM   #7
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Re: Curbless Shower Large Format Tile


Quote:
Originally Posted by tjbnwi View Post
If you're going shower valve wall, you'll need the 36x72 not the 76x38. By the time you trim it to 60" it will be 2" tall.

This job is in Highlands Ranch.

Show them these pictures, you can see the pitch and how it interacts with the room floor. I don't uses the Schluter trim for this, I cut the pitch on the tile. You have to start at the low point, this means trimming the tile on the level floor.

The gray line at the exit of the shower is the Dilex I used for the wicking barrier.

This shower floor is heated. I use Ditra Heat cable.

Tom
Nice work!

How deep is the recess for the pan? Looks deeper than 3/4 for some reason.

All in all it seems easiest choice would be the 76x38 as it is thinner and puts drain at back wall.
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Old 04-02-2019, 08:06 AM   #8
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Re: Curbless Shower Large Format Tile


It is deeper than 3/4. I used the 36x72 pan to get the drain at the mixing valve wall. Probably 1-1/4". Trimmed the joist and doubled where necessary, due to the 72" tub and joist span I had to double up others anyways.

Tom
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Old 04-15-2019, 05:50 PM   #9
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Re: Curbless Shower Large Format Tile


So it seems pan is 7/8" thick at drain body edge of pan so I think I can put drain at door and raise drain body 5/8" or so to match field tiles. That sound about right?
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Last edited by kevjob; 04-15-2019 at 05:59 PM.
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Old 04-15-2019, 06:32 PM   #10
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Re: Curbless Shower Large Format Tile


Give Rod Katwyk a shot. He is the king of custom foam pans. Actually the king of custom foam anything.

https://rodkat.com/

No reason to slice and dice a Schluter pan. He will make a pan to any spec (within reason).
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Old 04-15-2019, 06:50 PM   #11
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Re: Curbless Shower Large Format Tile


Quote:
Originally Posted by TNTRenovate View Post
Give Rod Katwyk a shot. He is the king of custom foam pans. Actually the king of custom foam anything.

https://rodkat.com/

No reason to slice and dice a Schluter pan. He will make a pan to any spec (within reason).

Thanks!


His pans work with kerdi line? Have all the testing done for permitting?
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Old 04-15-2019, 07:10 PM   #12
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Re: Curbless Shower Large Format Tile


Quote:
Originally Posted by kevjob View Post
Thanks!


His pans work with kerdi line? Have all the testing done for permitting?
If your job is in Douglas county the inspector has no clue how to inspect a barrier free shower.

Tom
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Old 04-15-2019, 08:00 PM   #13
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Re: Curbless Shower Large Format Tile


This one is in Wheat Ridge which I have heard can be a pita. They want 2 weeks just for plan review for a bathroom!, Douglas County in an out in 30 mins.
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Old 04-15-2019, 08:59 PM   #14
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Re: Curbless Shower Large Format Tile


Quote:
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This one is in Wheat Ridge which I have heard can be a pita. They want 2 weeks just for plan review for a bathroom!, Douglas County in an out in 30 mins.
It was about 2 weeks for the Douglas county permit for the job I posted the pictures of. They wanted an arc fault breaker on the heat floor, problem was it's a 2 pole floor circuit which does not require an arc fault.

Guy came to inspect the flood test, had no clue what he was looking at. Starred at it for 5 minutes then walked away...

Tom
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Old 04-15-2019, 10:03 PM   #15
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Re: Curbless Shower Large Format Tile


Quote:
Originally Posted by kevjob View Post
Thanks!


His pans work with kerdi line? Have all the testing done for permitting?
Yep! He will even premount the fabric.
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Old 04-16-2019, 08:18 AM   #16
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Re: Curbless Shower Large Format Tile


Have a call into Schluter rep and see what he says. I am pushing for curb opposite of valve wall and put drain at entrance of shower which I think will solve all the mental math of flat field tile and sloped pan tiles meeting up.
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Old 04-16-2019, 08:24 AM   #17
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Re: Curbless Shower Large Format Tile


Quote:
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It was about 2 weeks for the Douglas county permit for the job I posted the pictures of. They wanted an arc fault breaker on the heat floor, problem was it's a 2 pole floor circuit which does not require an arc fault.

Guy came to inspect the flood test, had no clue what he was looking at. Starred at it for 5 minutes then walked away...

Tom
Huh, never seen them take more than 45 mins even for kitchens with structural mods.

There are a couple smart guys I deal with regulary that I know by name and couple that have no idea what they are looking at!
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Old 04-30-2019, 08:18 AM   #18
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Re: Curbless Shower Large Format Tile


Quote:
Originally Posted by tjbnwi View Post
If your job is in Douglas county the inspector has no clue how to inspect a barrier free shower.

Tom
Seems that the thread has stalled or even ended (Kevin got his answer?) so Iím going to take it in a slightly different direction.

As many know, here in Colorado, we deal with different building department authorities in just about every county, city, town and even some neighborhoods. Tom mentioned Douglas County as having no clue, but the reality is that I donít think many of the various authorities have a clue... and it pisses me off!

Can we discuss what we believe to be the minimum requirements of a barrier free shower? I would simply like to get a feel for what you guys think gets passed.
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Old 04-30-2019, 08:26 AM   #19
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Re: Curbless Shower Large Format Tile


Update: I ended up with adding a curb opposite of valve wall and putting linear full width tileable drain at door. Recessed area like the drawing and approved by Wheat Ridge who are a total PITA to get permit.

Head guy is great front office gal has an attitude and don't dare ask her about permitting questions even though her job is Permit Technician. They have 1.5 star rating for good reason.

I was reading Schluter literature about drains at shower door entrance and they recommend the closed and or tileable drains only.

If KERDI-LINE is placed at shower entrance,
it is recommended that grate assembly A or
the covering support is chosen and that the
drainage openings span the maximum width
of the entrance to limit potential overflow;
secondary drainage (e.g., KERDI-DRAIN) may
be required in the drying area. page six https://sccpublic.s3-external-1.amaz...ta%20Sheet.pdf
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Curbless Shower Large Format Tile-lord-shower-drain.jpg   Curbless Shower Large Format Tile-recess-shower-base-framing.png  

Last edited by kevjob; 04-30-2019 at 08:28 AM.
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Old 04-30-2019, 07:57 PM   #20
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Re: Curbless Shower Large Format Tile


Quote:
Originally Posted by DaVinciRemodel View Post
Seems that the thread has stalled or even ended (Kevin got his answer?) so Iím going to take it in a slightly different direction.

As many know, here in Colorado, we deal with different building department authorities in just about every county, city, town and even some neighborhoods. Tom mentioned Douglas County as having no clue, but the reality is that I donít think many of the various authorities have a clue... and it pisses me off!

Can we discuss what we believe to be the minimum requirements of a barrier free shower? I would simply like to get a feel for what you guys think gets passed.
We have done two curbless showers both of which were inspected. We used Schluter on both of them for everything including the bathroom floor. We used Kerdi band and waterproofed the Ditra to drywall joint several feet out from the shower on both jobs.

On the pan inspection we just filled it up to about where it would start to travel into the rest of the room. No issues with either. I think in general that our building departments around here at pretty reasonable.

By far the worst time I ever had was with one inspector and it was remedied by calling his boss.
He wouldn't pass something my HVAC guy did on a mini split drain, and after he told me he used duct tape and it passed back when he was an HVAC technician, I said have a nice day and called his boss...

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