36' LVL Ceiling Beam - Is It Possible? - Remodeling - Contractor Talk

36' LVL Ceiling Beam - Is It Possible?

 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 05-13-2020, 02:06 PM   #1
Registered User
 
aar0nhurst's Avatar
 
Trade: Laborer
Join Date: May 2020
Location: KY, US
Posts: 15
Rewards Points: 42

36' LVL Ceiling Beam - Is It Possible?


Home built in 1961. Rafter, hip roof. Looking to add a flush beam to span 36'.

Can someone help me better understand roof load and what type of LVL beam I would need to span 36'? I know I can do the work and I am confident in my job execution, but I don't know how to calculate what type of beam I need. I assumed that a few 2"x10"x36' LVLs sistered together, posts at opposite ends, concrete footers, and joist hangers would do the trick. But I'm stuck on engineering the beam!

My question:
How do I figure out what type of LVL beam can be used?
Attached Thumbnails
36' LVL Ceiling Beam - Is it possible?-img_0130.jpg   36' LVL Ceiling Beam - Is it possible?-img_0134.jpg  
aar0nhurst is offline  

Warning: The topics covered on this site include activities in which there exists the potential for serious injury or death. ContractorTalk.com DOES NOT guarantee the accuracy or completeness of any information contained on this site. Always use proper safety precaution and reference reliable outside sources before attempting any construction or remodeling task!

   

Advertisement

 

Old 05-13-2020, 03:03 PM   #2
Fire up the BBQ
 
griz's Avatar
 
Trade: GC
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: ex-calif
Posts: 23,258
Rewards Points: 2,206

Re: 36' LVL Ceiling Beam - Is It Possible?


You need to hire an engineer...

Advertisement

__________________
SOME JOBS JUST AREN'T WORTH DOING:
griz is online now  
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to griz For This Useful Post:
aar0nhurst (05-13-2020), overanalyze (05-16-2020), Seven-Delta-FortyOne (05-13-2020), SouthonBeach (05-14-2020)
Old 05-13-2020, 06:44 PM   #3
Registered User
 
aar0nhurst's Avatar
 
Trade: Laborer
Join Date: May 2020
Location: KY, US
Posts: 15
Rewards Points: 42

Re: 36' LVL Ceiling Beam - Is It Possible?


Quote:
Originally Posted by griz View Post
You need to hire an engineer...
Definitely will
aar0nhurst is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 05-13-2020, 09:25 PM   #4
Goin' Down in Flames....
 
Seven-Delta-FortyOne's Avatar
 
Trade: Highwayman
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Somewhere Between Heaven And Hell
Posts: 4,639
Rewards Points: 1,734

Re: 36' LVL Ceiling Beam - Is It Possible?


Not something builders size on their own.

Project like this is probably going to need to be permitted anyway, and the building dept is most likely gonna need to see the engineering.

Might be able to have the lumber size it for you, since it's going to be through a company like Boise Cascade or Weyerhouser. They do a lot of their own engineering.

However, the building dept might not accept that. They might want a site specific engineering report, talking local wind and seismic into consideration.
Seven-Delta-FortyOne is online now  
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Seven-Delta-FortyOne For This Useful Post:
aar0nhurst (05-14-2020), griz (05-13-2020), overanalyze (05-16-2020)
Old 05-13-2020, 09:57 PM   #5
Pro
 
Fouthgeneration's Avatar
 
Trade: Masonry
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Middle
Posts: 2,691
Rewards Points: 9,815

Re: 36' LVL Ceiling Beam - Is It Possible?


Build a truss..... a 4-6' deep truss, especially if steel rods/ cables are used for tension members. You might have to push it above the roof line, and weatherproof the exposed portion, think suspension bridge.....Or hide the structure in a 'clerestory' which would allow natural light and no loss of head room.

Run cables under plywood deck between opposite rafter tails to reduce dead & live loads on ridge beam
__________________
I might be an Idiot, but I know things that You don't: Please wait till after you get my know-how to insult me....

Last edited by Fouthgeneration; 05-13-2020 at 10:04 PM.
Fouthgeneration is online now  
The Following User Says Thank You to Fouthgeneration For This Useful Post:
aar0nhurst (05-14-2020)
Old 05-14-2020, 07:59 AM   #6
General Contractor
 
greg24k's Avatar
 
Trade: New Home Construction-Additions-Remodeling
Join Date: May 2007
Location: NJ
Posts: 7,770
Rewards Points: 8,750

Re: 36' LVL Ceiling Beam - Is It Possible?


If you want to span a beam 36' what is the beams carry span?
Also, are you trying to make living space up there or only for walk-up storage?
__________________
I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!
greg24k is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to greg24k For This Useful Post:
aar0nhurst (05-14-2020)
Old 05-14-2020, 09:45 AM   #7
Pro
 
hdavis's Avatar
 
Trade: remodeling
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: CoastalME
Posts: 25,437
Rewards Points: 1,652

Re: 36' LVL Ceiling Beam - Is It Possible?


You have more than the beam to worry about, you have to get that load down to correctly sized footers.
hdavis is online now  
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to hdavis For This Useful Post:
aar0nhurst (05-14-2020), greg24k (05-14-2020), overanalyze (05-16-2020), ScipioAfricanus (05-14-2020), Seven-Delta-FortyOne (05-14-2020)
Old 05-14-2020, 11:24 AM   #8
General Contractor
 
greg24k's Avatar
 
Trade: New Home Construction-Additions-Remodeling
Join Date: May 2007
Location: NJ
Posts: 7,770
Rewards Points: 8,750

Re: 36' LVL Ceiling Beam - Is It Possible?


Quote:
Originally Posted by hdavis View Post
You have more than the beam to worry about, you have to get that load down to correctly sized footers.
Most definitely he will have cut the wall bellow and install a post to carry point load continuously down to the foundation and in some cases being this a gable wall most likely the main house girder is resting on that wall and if there is no structural pier and the girder just cut into a block, in many cases the block would have to be cut and solid grouted down to the footing (depending on how old the house is and how many stories the house is)
__________________
I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!
greg24k is offline  
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to greg24k For This Useful Post:
aar0nhurst (05-14-2020), overanalyze (05-16-2020)
Old 05-14-2020, 11:57 AM   #9
Registered User
 
aar0nhurst's Avatar
 
Trade: Laborer
Join Date: May 2020
Location: KY, US
Posts: 15
Rewards Points: 42

Re: 36' LVL Ceiling Beam - Is It Possible?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Fouthgeneration View Post
You might have to push it above the roof line, and weatherproof the exposed portion, think suspension bridge.....Or hide the structure in a 'clerestory'
Uhhh........I'm hoping this is sarcasm, lol.
aar0nhurst is offline  
Old 05-14-2020, 12:04 PM   #10
Registered User
 
aar0nhurst's Avatar
 
Trade: Laborer
Join Date: May 2020
Location: KY, US
Posts: 15
Rewards Points: 42

Re: 36' LVL Ceiling Beam - Is It Possible?


Quote:
Originally Posted by greg24k View Post
...what is the beams carry span?
I was hoping someone on here could help me answer that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by greg24k View Post
Also, are you trying to make living space up there or only for walk-up storage?
Neither. I'm trying to open up the floor plan between the kitchen, living area, and dining room. Attic space won't be used.
aar0nhurst is offline  
Old 05-14-2020, 12:11 PM   #11
Goin' Down in Flames....
 
Seven-Delta-FortyOne's Avatar
 
Trade: Highwayman
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Somewhere Between Heaven And Hell
Posts: 4,639
Rewards Points: 1,734

Re: 36' LVL Ceiling Beam - Is It Possible?


Quote:
Originally Posted by aar0nhurst View Post
I was hoping someone on here could help me answer that.


Not here.

That's where engineers come in. I never size those things.

I sketch out a floor plan, rafter size/spacing, dimensions, foundation details that I can ascertain, and take that info to my engineer.

And voila, like magic, he spits out an answer.
Seven-Delta-FortyOne is online now  
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Seven-Delta-FortyOne For This Useful Post:
aar0nhurst (05-14-2020), hdavis (05-14-2020), overanalyze (05-16-2020)
Old 05-14-2020, 12:35 PM   #12
Registered User
 
aar0nhurst's Avatar
 
Trade: Laborer
Join Date: May 2020
Location: KY, US
Posts: 15
Rewards Points: 42

Re: 36' LVL Ceiling Beam - Is It Possible?


Quote:
Originally Posted by greg24k View Post
Most definitely he will have cut the wall bellow and install a post to carry point load continuously down to the foundation and in some cases being this a gable wall most likely the main house girder is resting on that wall and if there is no structural pier and the girder just cut into a block, in many cases the block would have to be cut and solid grouted down to the footing (depending on how old the house is and how many stories the house is)
Man, yes. So I have a CMU block wall as the girder and I assume it's on top of a concrete footer (I haven't seen the footer). If I understand you correctly, it's possible that I would need a solid pier down to the footing cut through my block girder? And only then could I set the post for the beam?

FYI, I know there is fungus on the floor joists. I am getting them treated and a vapor barrier put in place. Luckily no rot or termite damage.
Attached Thumbnails
36' LVL Ceiling Beam - Is it possible?-img_0164.jpg  
aar0nhurst is offline  
Old 05-14-2020, 02:02 PM   #13
General Contractor
 
greg24k's Avatar
 
Trade: New Home Construction-Additions-Remodeling
Join Date: May 2007
Location: NJ
Posts: 7,770
Rewards Points: 8,750

Re: 36' LVL Ceiling Beam - Is It Possible?


The beam carry load is the with of the house perpendicular to the girder (the joist span on each side of the girder)

That said I'm not giving you structural advice here I'm just curious to know what size that beam would need to be.

As the foundation and the footing goes that is a different story and the integrity of it and if it can support the additional load, i.e that would depend on the footing width, depth, and the soil.

So as an example with basic calculation...If you plan on doing a habitable attic space to meet L/360 floor load criteria @30LB PFT design load...and if your building width is 24' you need a beam to support a total of 13,320LB load that 370LB per foot... so every bearing point on each side has to support an additional 6,660LB.

That said a 5 1/4" x 18" beam can support 391LB PFT which is only good for a 26' span and the weight of that beam is 578.8 LB so I don't know how you plan on getting that beam inside, because the beam to span 36' will be even more and a much larger beam.

You should consult with an engineer and see what would be a steel I-Beam option.

Good luck
__________________
I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!
greg24k is offline  
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to greg24k For This Useful Post:
aar0nhurst (05-14-2020), hdavis (05-14-2020), TheConstruct (05-15-2020)
Old 05-14-2020, 02:23 PM   #14
Pro
 
hdavis's Avatar
 
Trade: remodeling
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: CoastalME
Posts: 25,437
Rewards Points: 1,652

Re: 36' LVL Ceiling Beam - Is It Possible?


Keep in mind, for replacing a ridge board with a structural ridge on a hopped roof, you'll most likely have columns coming down through living space, not the exterior walls. There probably won't be foundation under them as it was built.
hdavis is online now  
The Following User Says Thank You to hdavis For This Useful Post:
aar0nhurst (05-14-2020)
Old 05-14-2020, 02:34 PM   #15
Goin' Down in Flames....
 
Seven-Delta-FortyOne's Avatar
 
Trade: Highwayman
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Somewhere Between Heaven And Hell
Posts: 4,639
Rewards Points: 1,734

Re: 36' LVL Ceiling Beam - Is It Possible?


Take this for what it's worth, and you're getting it for free, so it's probably worth exactly what you're paying for it.


You're a bit over your head on this one. We can't give you all the info you'll need to do this job. It's a serious structural remodel, and it takes a lot of experience to pull these off correctly and safely.

In fact, the Mod staff here usually shut these down right away. They must be feeling generous.

The questions you are asking are actually irrelevant if you were getting this job permitted, because the AHJ would require you to do what we've repeatedly told yo to do, which is "Go get it engineered".

I'm guessing you're going to skip the permit process on this one.

If you are in fact in the construction trade, this is too big of a project to tackle for a laborer. Why don't you have a co-worker or 2 over on a Saturday, put a 12 pack on ice, and see if they can give you some help.
Seven-Delta-FortyOne is online now  
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Seven-Delta-FortyOne For This Useful Post:
aar0nhurst (05-14-2020), greg24k (05-14-2020)
Old 05-14-2020, 03:15 PM   #16
Pro
 
hdavis's Avatar
 
Trade: remodeling
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: CoastalME
Posts: 25,437
Rewards Points: 1,652

Re: 36' LVL Ceiling Beam - Is It Possible?


Personally I do as much structural calcs as possible before going to a SE just so I have an understanding of what the options are. Nothing worse than a structural design you don't want to build.
hdavis is online now  
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to hdavis For This Useful Post:
aar0nhurst (05-14-2020), greg24k (05-14-2020), Seven-Delta-FortyOne (05-14-2020)
Old 05-14-2020, 03:22 PM   #17
Pro
 
rrk's Avatar
 
Trade: remodeling
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: new jersey
Posts: 6,613
Rewards Points: 5,204

Re: 36' LVL Ceiling Beam - Is It Possible?


Quote:
Originally Posted by hdavis View Post
Keep in mind, for replacing a ridge board with a structural ridge on a hopped roof, you'll most likely have columns coming down through living space, not the exterior walls. There probably won't be foundation under them as it was built.
I dont think he wants to replace ridge, just carry ceiling load to be able to remove interior walls

the one I did recently was 21 ft long 5 1/2 x 16 microlam, which means nothing in his case but may give him an idea of size
rrk is online now  
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to rrk For This Useful Post:
aar0nhurst (05-14-2020), greg24k (05-14-2020), hdavis (05-14-2020), TheConstruct (05-15-2020)
Old 05-14-2020, 04:52 PM   #18
Registered User
 
aar0nhurst's Avatar
 
Trade: Laborer
Join Date: May 2020
Location: KY, US
Posts: 15
Rewards Points: 42

Re: 36' LVL Ceiling Beam - Is It Possible?


Quote:
Originally Posted by greg24k View Post
You should consult with an engineer and see what would be a steel I-Beam option.
I'll call the lumber yard tomorrow and get an engineer's information.

Quote:
Originally Posted by greg24k View Post
Good luck
Thank you, sounds like I'm going to need it!
aar0nhurst is offline  
Old 05-14-2020, 05:04 PM   #19
Registered User
 
aar0nhurst's Avatar
 
Trade: Laborer
Join Date: May 2020
Location: KY, US
Posts: 15
Rewards Points: 42

Re: 36' LVL Ceiling Beam - Is It Possible?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Seven-Delta-FortyOne View Post
In fact, the Mod staff here usually shut these down right away. They must be feeling generous.
D'oh! Didn't realize that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seven-Delta-FortyOne View Post
The questions you are asking are actually irrelevant if you were getting this job permitted, because the AHJ would require you to do what we've repeatedly told yo to do, which is "Go get it engineered".
I'm going to call an SE on this one for sure. I wasn't planning on getting this permitted but after reading everyone's comments, I'd be a fool not to listen. And as far as "irrelevant questions" go... you're not wrong but a day ago I didn't know so much went into a beam! I figure better for me to ask and listen than to not ask and end up with a collapsed house.

Last edited by aar0nhurst; 05-14-2020 at 05:06 PM. Reason: too many exclamation marks
aar0nhurst is offline  
Old 05-14-2020, 05:05 PM   #20
Registered User
 
aar0nhurst's Avatar
 
Trade: Laborer
Join Date: May 2020
Location: KY, US
Posts: 15
Rewards Points: 42

Re: 36' LVL Ceiling Beam - Is It Possible?


Can't thank everyone enough for the help, info, and guidance on this one. I'm going to call my lumber yard tomorrow and get a couple SE numbers. I'll post an update once I have more info on my project.

Advertisement

aar0nhurst is offline  



Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Join Now... It's Fast and FREE!

I am a professional contractor
I am a DIY Homeowner
Drywall Talk is for
PROFESSIONAL CONTRACTORS ONLY!

At DrywallTalk.com we cater exlusivly to professional contractors who make their living as a contractor. Knowing that many homeowners and DIYers are looking for a community to call home, we've created www.DIYChatroom.com DIY Chatroom is full of helpful advices and perfect for DIY homeowners.

Redirecing in 10 seconds
No Thanks
terms of service

Already Have an Account?