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Microsoft Access 2010

 
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Old 05-13-2014, 12:28 PM   #61
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Re: Microsoft Access 2010


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Nope still here...laptop been in the shop...should get it back tomorow.

Buncha nerds... Carry on

So then have we agreed we are going to use mysql over access? Or both?
Well if you want to have to construct continual query statements for each item you wish to know then use the SQL approach. If you want to know the same exact information in a timely fashion then use scripted buttons and fields in a format such as Access or Filemaker and let that do the work for you. I would youtube or google the products if I were you and watch a video or two to see which method is actually easier or if you are possibly getting led down a path you never intended by strangers who are impressing you with their mighty knowledge on coding and deployment for their own amusement and glory. The other good thing mentioned was Quickbooks contractor version- A great resource right off the shelf.
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Old 05-15-2014, 07:10 PM   #62
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Re: Microsoft Access 2010


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Nope still here...laptop been in the shop...should get it back tomorow.

Buncha nerds... Carry on

So then have we agreed we are going to use mysql over access? Or both?
Yeah, I'm kind of a nerd, I'll take that as a compliment

You can use whatever you want. The examples I gave are from MySql, but they can be ported to Access without a whole lot of trouble.

I don't like Access because of limitations it has so I don't have it - or I would have made them in Access because it's what you've been playing with.
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Old 05-15-2014, 07:53 PM   #63
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Re: Microsoft Access 2010


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Originally Posted by macmikeman View Post
Well if you want to have to construct continual query statements for each item you wish to know then use the SQL approach. If you want to know the same exact information in a timely fashion then use scripted buttons and fields in a format such as Access or Filemaker and let that do the work for you. I would youtube or google the products if I were you and watch a video or two to see which method is actually easier or if you are possibly getting led down a path you never intended by strangers who are impressing you with their mighty knowledge on coding and deployment for their own amusement and glory. The other good thing mentioned was Quickbooks contractor version- A great resource right off the shelf.
I don't see any useful information coming from you buddy - except to repeat MY suggestion that Quickbooks Premier Contractor Edition would probably be easier and faster to get done what he wants done, not to mention it would be integrated into his accounting system.

Wrong path? Amusement and glory? I spent 4 years in college studying software engineering, and another 6 years doing it, but I bow to the expert certified Filemaker salesman. I wasn't aware that Quickbooks was built in Access Since it's so awesome, why didn't Intuit build Quickbooks with Filemaker?

FYI the Windows version of Quickbooks is 10+ million lines of C++ code plus a little C# for the .NET parts. They also have their own storage engine, which is what reads and writes the company file, but there is middleware to access it like a SQL database. What there isn't, is scripted fields and buttons ...

Hows THIS for wrong path: Here's where he would hit the limit of your way RIGHT OFF THE BAT - He said he wanted guys to be able to access it from the field via a web app or something along those lines. Try THAT with Filemaker. Oh you probably could, but you'd spend a lot of time hammering that screw. I've seen web apps built with an Access database. Guess what - you've got to use SQL in the web code, and your scripted buttons and fields go right out the window because they aren't there. Same thing for mobile apps.

Oh, and as for the circle jerk comment, sorry the thread got derailed for a minute by a side conversation with Python guy - who actually had a better suggestion than yours
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Old 05-15-2014, 08:03 PM   #64
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Re: Microsoft Access 2010


Ok now that I'm done responding to possibly the most asnine comment I've ever read that wasn't an obvious troll ...

The reason you don't want to use Access or Filemaker is that those kind of tools make it easy to build a simple piece of software. It might even be useful for a while. After you get going, you're going to want it to do more and more - most of the time this happens before the software is even a finished piece, much less to the stage where it's being revised.

At this point, you'll be stuck with "you can't do that without doing some really bass ackwards hacks if you can do it at all" or "Time to rebuild the system from the ground up using appropriate tools". Do yourself a favor, and build from a solid foundation. I would HIGHLY suggest that you use Quickbooks - get the upgrade to Premier Contractor. It'll do more than you want, and I'm reasonably certain that there IS a way to have products that only apply to certain customers.

I'd bet that Intuit tech support will help you out if you've upgraded, but I'm not sure. I'll ask a quickbooks guy if you want.

But like I said - if you want to play with Access, by all means go for it. Just be aware that it does a lot of things that don't follow industry standards. What I'm showing you applies to Access as much as any other database.

Access and it's ilk is a toy tool belt - like the little nail bags with the baby pink hammers, and itty bitty screwdrivers. If you think you're going to build a mission critical piece of software with it think again. This includes the ones built into other office suites - like LibreBase, and Filemaker, and that whole class of database software.

Personally I think if you learn how to do it that way, you're learning stuff wrong, and it makes it that much more difficult to grasp when you graduate past the pink squeaky hammer.
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Old 05-15-2014, 08:35 PM   #65
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Re: Microsoft Access 2010


The Premier editions of Quickbooks all allow you to build assemblies, which are products that are comprised of multiple other products. I've always thought this would be a good way to do some things - like roofing for example. You've got underlayment, felt caps, shingles, coil nails, and services associated like tear off x layers, steep charges, installation, and other things that are all estimated at a per square unit rate. You might not sell nails, or underlayment to the customer - but you can combine these into an assembly of something you DO sell to a customer.

Another thing you can do is custom fields. I haven't looked into it too much, but in theory you MIGHT be able to create a custom field for a product that is linked to the customer. What I'd try to do first is see if you can find out what the primary key of the customer table is, and create a custom field for products that links to the customer table on the primary key.

For web access there is middleware specifically for that, and I'd bet you could make a mobile app that used the middleware too. To do that, you'll need quickbooks set up on a server that's always on, and hooked up to the internet with a static IP address, and you'll need the multiuser stuff in Quickbooks set up too I think.
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Old 05-15-2014, 08:56 PM   #66
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Re: Microsoft Access 2010


Quickbooks pro or otherwise aint free. I say this because I do not wish to piss money away for something I will not use.

Microsoft acces came with office, so I looked into it. They have a sample file called "northwind" that sparked my imagination.

So i dabbled with it & got more ideas.

As I said, I service apartment complexes & investors doing a wide variety of things.

Example: apartment complexes i just paint & drywall. Investors I do the entire flip.

Therefore, each apartment complex is bid out by unit/floorplan. Usually around 10 items/complex.

Now, in quickbooks that would mean a redonculous amount of inventory items. Plus, if an employee needs to do an invoice well...

But by creating a database, where said employee can log in via laptop or smartphone in the field things could be more smooth.

I dont know databases very well, but I do know that if you want a program to suit your needs you HAVE to build it, because there just isnt a 1 size fits all program for everyone.

So, from the sounds of it mysql is the most flexible & widely used program available.

Lets just use that, & toss ideas around shall we?
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Old 05-15-2014, 10:03 PM   #67
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Re: Microsoft Access 2010


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Originally Posted by Driftweed View Post
Quickbooks pro or otherwise aint free. I say this because I do not wish to piss money away for something I will not use.

Microsoft acces came with office, so I looked into it. They have a sample file called "northwind" that sparked my imagination.

So i dabbled with it & got more ideas.

As I said, I service apartment complexes & investors doing a wide variety of things.

Example: apartment complexes i just paint & drywall. Investors I do the entire flip.

Therefore, each apartment complex is bid out by unit/floorplan. Usually around 10 items/complex.

Now, in quickbooks that would mean a redonculous amount of inventory items. Plus, if an employee needs to do an invoice well...

But by creating a database, where said employee can log in via laptop or smartphone in the field things could be more smooth.

I dont know databases very well, but I do know that if you want a program to suit your needs you HAVE to build it, because there just isnt a 1 size fits all program for everyone.

So, from the sounds of it mysql is the most flexible & widely used program available.

Lets just use that, & toss ideas around shall we?
You don't really have to build your own software necessarily. I worked at Regions, and there was an army of programmers and techs. The mortgage system was third party software, but it was customizable, and had a scripting language built into it so we could program within the program so to speak.

Quickbooks is something like that. They know you're going to have your own needs, and the one size fits all thing doesn't work - so they provide means for you to change things. Not sure if they have a scripting language, but I'm going to look that up for sure.

Access is like that in a way - it's a program with a database built in, and a scripting language to extend it with. Access scripting is programming within a program too.

I don't have Access, but in a lot of ways it works similar to MySql and every other relational database so most of my examples apply for the most part. A little tweaking here and there to change over - at least while it's still small little pieces. It adds up to some real time when your app grows and outgrows it's foundation though.

How about I call some tech friends and see if I can get a copy of Access for "evaluation" purposes
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Old 05-15-2014, 10:08 PM   #68
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Re: Microsoft Access 2010


Yes, the Northwind database has been around since I can remember. I don't remember it in the FIRST version of Access I had (around Circa 1990) even though it might have been there - but I do remember it when I took a database design class in 1998 ...

It's not what I'd call "production stable", and there's a lot of things I'd do differently, but it IS a good starting point, and I've looked back at it many times when I needed a fresh perspective.
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Old 05-15-2014, 11:27 PM   #69
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Re: Microsoft Access 2010


I've been doing a little poking around the Intuit site since I don't have Access to play with yet, and I'm not so sure that there is an integrated scripting engine. I'm not sure why not, especially since there is an "enterprise" class product. I'd expect an enterprise accounting system to have it. And while you can have custom fields, you can only have five of them? Also it doesn't look like there's much of a way to really tie it to another field in another table like you do in a relational database. It could be done in script without being a "bad" thing - except you'd need integrated scripting for that.

What you CAN do is build your own app, with it's own database - and integrate Quickbooks with the sdk to use quickbooks like a database so if you ... add a sales order or customer with your app - you don't have to enter it into QB also - and vice versa - so your accountant logging into the QB can run a report and it shows the sale or customer but you don't have to touch QB to enter the data.

Not much help there - but it's late, I'm tired, and I could be missing something.
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Old 05-16-2014, 12:25 AM   #70
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Re: Microsoft Access 2010


I don't think I ever said Quickbooks was created with Access. I believe I stated it used SQL, but if I am wrong about that I stand corrected.

Mr SmallPierre, I salute your experience and training. I however was , like you trying to help a fellow tradesman on his way along a path to a solution, but unlike you, I didn't try to lead him to the one that requires 5 yrs of post secondary education along with ten years or whatever it was working for Oracle or the like.

I am not a Filemaker Salesman either, but I do have years of use of it and find it to be a very full featured database system regardless of your dismissal of it.

As to the statements of how well it works with web or on Ipads, well let me help you with that. Here is an introductory video on that very subject. You should watch before you make statements on how functional the product is. I think you have no idea. By the way, it is very easy to add tables, adjust the schema on the fly, add fields, reports, summary's, produce layouts, bring in data from other tables - inside and outside joins , run in data from tables related thru thirty other ones if you need to. Look for yourself http://www.filemaker.com/products/ov...=fmpl-overview
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Old 05-16-2014, 12:26 AM   #71
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Re: Microsoft Access 2010


Oh, I forgot, there is plugins for Quickbooks.
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Old 05-16-2014, 01:15 AM   #72
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Re: Microsoft Access 2010


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I don't think I ever said Quickbooks was created with Access. I believe I stated it used SQL, but if I am wrong about that I stand corrected.

Mr SmallPierre, I salute your experience and training. I however was , like you trying to help a fellow tradesman on his way along a path to a solution, but unlike you, I didn't try to lead him to the one that requires 5 yrs of post secondary education along with ten years or whatever it was working for Oracle or the like.

I am not a Filemaker Salesman either, but I do have years of use of it and find it to be a very full featured database system regardless of your dismissal of it.

As to the statements of how well it works with web or on Ipads, well let me help you with that. Here is an introductory video on that very subject. You should watch before you make statements on how functional the product is. I think you have no idea. By the way, it is very easy to add tables, adjust the schema on the fly, add fields, reports, summary's, produce layouts, bring in data from other tables - inside and outside joins , run in data from tables related thru thirty other ones if you need to. Look for yourself http://www.filemaker.com/products/ov...=fmpl-overview
When I said that I was unaware that Quickbooks was written with Access I was being sarcastic. It's not, and there's a reason for that. It's weaksauce.

It doesn't take years of education. I learned more about software my first few months on the job than I did in alllll the time in college. It was because I had access to top notch programmers that build real software instead of academia bound sadists. Yes I learned a lot in college, but some things you can't learn like that.

I have no idea? I can get him up and running in ANY of these solutions in pretty much the same time frame - except that I don't own a copy of Access, or Filemaker.

I explained this before and I'll explain it again ... Web hosting companies do not have Filemaker, or Access databases in their hosting packages. Even the Microsoft hosting packages come with Sql Server, not Access. In order to use data from a smart phone or web browser, or ANY remote system you have to have your central data available via the internet. While there are a few ways to do this, most of them are a little out of the range of an average dude trying to learn how to build an app. Access can be used for that too, but it's slow when used with multiple user connections, and you essentially HAVE to maintain your own webserver to feed out the data.

And I'm not really dismissing Filemaker in and of itself. I wouldn't expect Intuit to put out a polished turd - I'm just saying that this class of database software has limits, and you hit the ceiling fast. Actually, I'd expect it to be better than Access in some ways - namely Access has a 2gb data storage limit, Filemaker doesn't.

Lets end the flame war and just help the guy out eh? He's got Access, and doesn't want to buy anything.

I'm watching the video because I want to see what kind of scripting language it supports, I want to see if it supports standardized SQL instead of the bastardized version Access used - at least as of the last time I used it ...
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Old 05-16-2014, 01:21 AM   #73
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Re: Microsoft Access 2010


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Oh, I forgot, there is plugins for Quickbooks.
I would expect there is being an Intuit product. Intuit also has the SDK which allows pretty much any programming language to connect to it - including Microsoft Access via Visual Basic for Applications (VBA) that's built into Access.



Here's a video that demonstrates that. Note: Around 13:35 or so look at the code. There's a "for" loop where it's dynamically building SQL for Access to execute - the insSQL variable, where theres that INSERT INTO Customers bit in quotes?

EDIT: forgot the video lol!

+ YouTube Video
ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


As for the outer joins - mostly in the real world if your database is properly designed outer joins are RARELY used, or they are being used improperly. If I think an outer join is the thing to use, I rethink what I'm doing.
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Old 05-16-2014, 01:45 AM   #74
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Re: Microsoft Access 2010


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Oh, I forgot, there is plugins for Quickbooks.
It's not an Intuit product - I was thinking of something else

The server looks like a lot of other Apple products in that they try to lock you into proprietary solutions in every way possible.

I do like that there is at least an app though. That's a step forward from Access. It looks like you can only use select queries - not inserts, updates, or any kind of ddl, and the scripting language is proprietary - so you learn it, and to move off of it you have to learn another language. It's also probably much more scalable than an Access app.

EDIT: Now that I've actually seen how the "scripting" works, it's actually just macros built pretty similar to how scheduled tasks are built in Windows. There's a lot you can do with that, but it's not going to get you the functionality of a real scripting language.

Sure, it's an ok piece - I'll give it that. Probably interoperates with it's selected group of products pretty well. Looks like a cool user interface, and the webserver version probably automagically builds a website that's hooked into the data.
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Old 05-16-2014, 01:48 AM   #75
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Re: Microsoft Access 2010


That being said ... He's got Access, doesn't want to buy stuff, and he's been playing with it.

Sure, he could install MySql and either Lazarus or Qt for the user interface also for free, but I'm not trying to push software - I want to help the guy out. If the proverbial brick wall gets hit I guess I'll end up porting yet another Access app
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Old 05-16-2014, 02:25 AM   #76
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Re: Microsoft Access 2010


Ok , I herby drop my defensiveness. Ok , so you looked at it and see what I see in it. IT'S EASY. Enough about it. My actual real love is something entirely different, and also easy to get the hang of because it uses the original hypercard language as the basis of it's IDE. It is open source and free of charge if you are not pushing an enterprise solution. Currently goes by the name LiveCode. Scottish guy buys the rights to the original Hypercard from Steve Jobs after Jobs banishes it from the Apple OS. He turned it into a multiplatform IDE that works for Windows, Linux, MAC OS, Iphone, Ipad, Android, and possibly even for I think Blackberry. Hypertalk is pretty close to Python in ease of scripting, but this also is drag and drop gui. Supports MySql, SqlLite, Oracle, Valentina, and ODBC and XML.

So anybody reading this if you want to develop your own apps in a really easy to learn English language coding IDE , one that does not require you to memorize or utilize a ton of symbols then have a look at LiveCode. I did mention free right? Since you have to script all your routines such as printing it is not going to be anywhere near as easy as let's say .. Oh I dunno , , Filemaker, but it is FREE. Here is your link- http://LiveCode.com/
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Old 05-16-2014, 02:45 AM   #77
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Re: Microsoft Access 2010


Dang, haven't seen HyperCard since the original Mac.

Sure you don't have to know the symbols, but there are syntax rules, and they aren't any easier to remember. It does read easier for someone that doesn't know the rules though.

Looks like it fits the bill of what I've been waiting for - Win/Lin/Mac/iOS/Android cross compilation (a daunting task). Qt has been promising it for a while, and I just downloaded the latest version. Lazarus has been promising it too - but it hasn't got anywhere with that. I think you can target Win/Lin/Mac with it though.

Both Qt and Lazarus are free RAD environments (Rapid Application Development), and from what I've seen so is LiveCode.

I'm downloading that mfker right now just to check it out. I doubt I'll like the language syntax, and I'm dubious as to it's interoperability since it's not a very popular language. It's possible that it does have bindings for all kind of stuff.
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Old 05-16-2014, 02:54 AM   #78
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Re: Microsoft Access 2010


In a RAD you drag and drop things like text fields, buttons, menus, etc - then double click it in the builder, and it opens the code editor with the cursor right inside the block of code that controls it, with default event settings - for a button the event would be set to the "onClick" event. There's a nice visual tool to change things like the buttons properties, and as you're dragging and dropping stuff it looks just like it's going to look after it's compiled and run.

Microsoft Visual Studio is NOT a RAD, and the forms don't even look like they actually will on screen. It sucks big ole donkey d**k
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Old 05-16-2014, 03:16 AM   #79
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Re: Microsoft Access 2010


Here are some tips. Every object is scriptable. You don't have to declare variables if you like, but good coding practices and all..... Every object has properties, and you can use that to do some amazing things- have a graphic object for instance contain nested arrays inside its custom properties. Or large containers of text or graphics or video can be stored inside any objects custom properties. And everything you put on the cards (screen) is an object. There are no classes to deal with. I don't have any formal training , but I learned Hypertalk just by reading all thru the user manual that comes built in with the program. That was something like 25 or so years ago now, and they have put a real polish on the original Hypercard. You are right, you still have to learn the syntax, but it is pretty much just like the English language. My best way to describe it is to say it is ''event'' driven programming. And all the events are english.
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Old 05-16-2014, 03:21 AM   #80
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Re: Microsoft Access 2010


I wish I had time to play with it tonight but it's late. So far it looks like a bad mfker

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