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Workman's Comp

 
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Old 03-07-2012, 10:30 AM   #1
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Workman's Comp


Can anyone talk a little about operating without worker's comp ins
I'm a sole-proprietor and sub-contractor and in my state they say I don't need it if I don't have employees. Has anyone had problems with General Contractors regarding this issue...
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Old 03-07-2012, 10:36 AM   #2
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Re: Workman's Comp


You don't need worker's comp. if you are self-employed. I don't think you could even collect if you did pay it.

If you want a similar system for yourself then you will need to look at short-term and long-term disability. The downside is that the insurance companies usually require at least two years of income shown for the business before they are willing to offer a price.

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Old 03-07-2012, 10:43 AM   #3
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Re: Workman's Comp


A lot of General Contractors normally list insurance requirements on the spec list of all jobs. When I send over an insurance certificate , should I always expect to be asked about workers comp.
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Old 03-07-2012, 10:44 AM   #4
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Re: Workman's Comp


As long as your within you're state laws most have no issue as long as you have no employees. May have to sign a waiver for some but that should be the extent of it.

Commercial on the other hand is a little different, as most sizable GC's will require it to even step on site regardless of whether you need or by law or not. It's all about passing liability to someone else.
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Old 03-07-2012, 10:51 AM   #5
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Re: Workman's Comp


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Originally Posted by loates1 View Post
A lot of General Contractors normally list insurance requirements on the spec list of all jobs. When I send over an insurance certificate , should I always expect to be asked about workers comp.
Yes it's common for them to ask. But, as stated you can sign a waiver. I have had a builder in the past insist on me getting WC even though I didn't have any employees. I got the policy because it was alot of work. At the end of one year, usually alittle after, WC will send out an audit sheet asking about your "employees", you fill it out stating no employees and you will get back about 70% what you paid. Usually being about $200 or so of what you have to pay in.
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Old 03-07-2012, 05:38 PM   #6
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Re: Workman's Comp


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You don't need worker's comp. if you are self-employed
For conversation sake, and saying your working on a residence. Are you not working for the homeowner? If you get hurt on the residence, who would the lawyer go after to pay your large bills that you could not afford to pay?

If the city or village requires proof of insurance when you pull the permit, do you just tell them you dont have workers comp? Can you still pull permits or do you guys have the homeowners do it?

There are guys that I won't have do work for me just because they don't have workers comp. Somebody has to pay it come ins. audit time.

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Old 03-08-2012, 07:03 PM   #7
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Re: Workman's Comp


Cant pull city permits in cali without workers comp.
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Old 03-08-2012, 07:33 PM   #8
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Re: Workman's Comp


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You don't need worker's comp. if you are self-employed. I don't think you could even collect if you did pay it.
Uh? I'm on my WC policy. I better check and see if I'm covered or not.
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Old 03-08-2012, 07:43 PM   #9
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Re: Workman's Comp


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Cant pull city permits in cali without workers comp.
Same in NYC.
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Old 03-08-2012, 07:47 PM   #10
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Re: Workman's Comp


I carry a WC exemption which really if best for a HO or GC, because I am waving my right to ever file a claim against them.
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Old 03-08-2012, 10:51 PM   #11
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Re: Workman's Comp


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I carry a WC exemption which really if best for a HO or GC, because I am waving my right to ever file a claim against them.
what do i need to fill out to get WC exemption
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Old 03-09-2012, 08:24 AM   #12
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Re: Workman's Comp


Dont want to answer for the post. But I thought I would add my experience.

All, you do is get a WC policy and exclude yourself from coverage.
Should be nothing to fill out, just tell the agent and give a little info.

I too, for years had a WC policy that I was excluded from.

Guys that don't have WC, are just knowingly or unknowingly putting their customers at tremendous risk.
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Old 03-09-2012, 08:38 AM   #13
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Re: Workman's Comp


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Originally Posted by red_cedar View Post
Dont want to answer for the post. But I thought I would add my experience.

All, you do is get a WC policy and exclude yourself from coverage.
Should be nothing to fill out, just tell the agent and give a little info.

I too, for years had a WC policy that I was excluded from.

Guys that don't have WC, are just knowingly or unknowingly putting their customers at tremendous risk.
This is not true at least here in Montana, If I file for a exemption as a contractor with no employees . Then I wave my right to file any kind of claim againt one of my customers. So then my customer is at no risk.

It is my understanding , at least here, that even if I did have WC and got hurt on a customer job , WC is going to look at whos fault it is and if they determine that it is the customer they can go after them.

I have never gotten legal advise on this so there is the possiblity I might be wrong.
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Old 03-09-2012, 09:22 AM   #14
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Re: Workman's Comp


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what do i need to fill out to get WC exemption
here is where you go.

http://www.wcb.ny.gov/content/ebiz/w...onOverview.jsp
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Old 03-09-2012, 12:38 PM   #15
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Re: Workman's Comp


In ma here I'm a sole proprietor and don't need workmanship comp. I have to fill it out on a building permit. If I hire someone to help me I make sure they have workmanship comp for their guys or are a sole proprietor like me. Everyone needs liability insurance. Sure it will change at some point to everyone needing WC. I've never had a problem with GC's. But I usually work for myself.
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Old 03-09-2012, 02:42 PM   #16
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Re: Workman's Comp


In Indiana the state has a waiver form that some general contractors require you to have. It is only $30 and it lasts for one year.
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Old 03-09-2012, 03:40 PM   #17
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Re: Workman's Comp


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Originally Posted by red_cedar View Post
Guys that don't have WC, are just knowingly or unknowingly putting their customers at tremendous risk.
That is NOT TRUE!

Every state is different and the WC laws are different depending on how each company is set up. I don't know where you work (as it's not stated) But, here in Minnesota as an LLC I do NOT qualify to receive any benefits from WC if I where to have an injury. My employees could, if I had any. Now, if I where INC. the company would need WC as I would be an officer or employee of the company. But, what am I going to do file a claim against myself and force my sole-proprietor company to pay me for hours I'm loosing on work? Psst..

Btw, with the liability laws today you better tell your dinner guests what a fork is and what it's used for because if they hurt themselves or someone else with it YOU will loose in court.
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Old 03-09-2012, 09:50 PM   #18
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Re: Workman's Comp


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That is NOT TRUE!

Every state is different and the WC laws are different depending on how each company is set up. I don't know where you work (as it's not stated) But, here in Minnesota as an LLC I do NOT qualify to receive any benefits from WC if I where to have an injury. My employees could, if I had any. Now, if I where INC. the company would need WC as I would be an officer or employee of the company. But, what am I going to do file a claim against myself and force my sole-proprietor company to pay me for hours I'm loosing on work? Psst..

Btw, with the liability laws today you better tell your dinner guests what a fork is and what it's used for because if they hurt themselves or someone else with it YOU will loose in court.


https://www.revisor.leg.state.mn.us/...es/?id=176.041

At the above link read "Subd. 1a.Election of coverage".

The persons, partnerships, limited liability companies, and corporations described in this subdivision may elect to provide the insurance coverage required by this chapter.
(e) A limited liability company which had less than 22,880 hours of payroll in the previous calendar year may elect coverage for any manager if that manager is also an owner of at least 25 percent membership interest in the limited liability company.

Also read the rest of it, there is nothing there that says you cannot have WC coverage for yourself.



Minnesota's WC laws are basically the same as Washington and Oregons laws. The same exemptions for sole proprietor, LLC, Corp, etc. And our laws also state we may elect coverage for ourselves if we wish, we don't have to exempt ourselves. So just because you can be exempt, it doesn't preclude coverage.

Now as I have stated before, you are foolish to not have coverage for yourself unless you have the ability to self insure yourself. Meaning if you don't have a few million in the bank you better have coverage.

For example you fall off of a ladder and break your back, etc. and are permanantly disabled. Who is going to take care of you and your family for the rest of your life. It wasn't anyone elses fault, it was a accident.
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Old 03-09-2012, 10:06 PM   #19
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Re: Workman's Comp


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Originally Posted by red_cedar View Post
Dont want to answer for the post. But I thought I would add my experience.

All, you do is get a WC policy and exclude yourself from coverage.
Should be nothing to fill out, just tell the agent and give a little info.

I too, for years had a WC policy that I was excluded from.

Guys that don't have WC, are just knowingly or unknowingly putting their customers at tremendous risk.

Speaking from experience, that is not a good idea. In Mass we have the option to opt out from WC coverage if you're self employed. I was injured on the job a couple of years ago and I was glad to be covered. All my medical bills and lost wages were paid in full and I got $25,000 compensation for "scarring and disfigurement". (thumb amputation.)
Consider it a disability policy.
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Old 03-10-2012, 07:25 AM   #20
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Speaking from experience, that is not a good idea. In Mass we have the option to opt out from WC coverage if you're self employed. I was injured on the job a couple of years ago and I was glad to be covered. All my medical bills and lost wages were paid in full and I got $25,000 compensation for "scarring and disfigurement". (thumb amputation.)
Consider it a disability policy.
That was when I couldnt afford to have myself covered. Your right, its not a good idea.
Now is different. If Im hurt now, Im covered.




If I have stated anything false here, its not intentional. its just my basic understanding of liability.

Many times though, I see guys that say they dont need WC because they work alone. Low and behold, often they have people helping them.

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