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Whats With Some Guys?

 
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Old 09-22-2010, 11:15 AM   #1
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Whats With Some Guys?


What the hell is this insane notion that some guys have that a customer BELONGS to a CG? Or that subs BELONG to a GC? Or that GC's belong to a sub? That reeks of a jealous, controlling, abusive, insecure stalker. I've seen this on my jobs and on this forum in many different forms and its sick!

Just because you did business with someone; either a HO or sub or GC, that does not give you any rights to anything else other than the actual business you did, or are doing with them. Some guys act like you're going steady with them, and somehow they are being cheated on if you do business without them.

Did it ever occur to these guys that if the HO or sub chooses not to do business with them, there is a reason, and its always because they don't want to do business with them?

One time I had hired a different mason to put in a foundation for me. He did a great job, was quick and neat. I was happy with the work and figured I would use him again. I met him at the site and as I was giving him his check he said to a woman that was with him, that he was doing all my foundations now. There was never any talk about any future work between him and me. Because of that comment and the way he said it, I never used him again. He was done!

I was doing a remodel once a mile from my home, and an electrician marched into the house and told me that he had put the service in for that place. He wanted to know why I, as the GC or the HO, didn't hire him to do the wiring for the remodel? He said he does all the electrical work in that area! It was his area! The guy was a first class bully, azz, jerk, etc.

After 25 years working here, I never even knew he existed until that moment, and told him so. I ordered him off my job site as he was trespassing. I can't even remember his name as he was so unimpressive with that attitude. He actually believed he owned that customer and that area! WTF?

Guys who think like that and don't get rehired or are bypassed for future work don't realize that their possessive controlling attitude comes through when they are dealing with others. Can you imagine how nuts he would be if he was a GC and saw a sub doing work for someone else, or worse yet a past client? He'd probably start a thread here on CT wining about how HOs aren't rehiring him for additional work and can't understand why.
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Old 09-22-2010, 12:12 PM   #2
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Re: Whats With Some Guys?


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Old 09-22-2010, 12:50 PM   #3
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Re: Whats With Some Guys?


People are funny, weird different everywhere. In each walk of life, profession or neighbourhood there are those who are nice, nasty, boring and seemingly normal.

The fact that this appears everywhere suggests to me that this diversity is in fact the normal range of human expression and being.

It's too bad that those who rub us the wrong way tend to make a much bigger impression on our experience than the nicer folks out there.

My solution for my little corner of the world is to have a no a-hole policy in life. That goes for customers, suppliers, friends and associates. Sometimes they slip through and I have to deal with what I think of their emotional pollution.

So, there's my generalized take on things. I'm looking forward to hear how others feel and deal...

Cheers,
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Old 09-22-2010, 12:54 PM   #4
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Re: Whats With Some Guys?


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Originally Posted by iHandy View Post
My solution for my little corner of the world is to have a no a-hole policy in life. That goes for customers, suppliers, friends and associates. Sometimes they slip through and I have to deal with what I think of their emotional pollution.
Well said, and pretty much the way I go about things as well. Personally, I think this is what rubs some folks the wrong way. They're too wrapped up in their petty dramas that they can't see that, just maybe, there are other ways to interact with others or do business.
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Old 09-22-2010, 01:04 PM   #5
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Re: Whats With Some Guys?


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One time I had hired a different mason to put in a foundation for me. He did a great job, was quick and neat. I was happy with the work and figured I would use him again. I met him at the site and as I was giving him his check he said to a woman that was with him, that he was doing all my foundations now. There was never any talk about any future work between him and me. Because of that comment and the way he said it, I never used him again. He was done!

I agree, he may have spoken out of turn,but I'm not sure I understand that, may be best for both in the long run.
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Old 09-22-2010, 02:25 PM   #6
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Re: Whats With Some Guys?


That one struck me as wrong too.
WTH, can't take a joke.
Dumb reason to fire someone.
Maybe in his neck of the woods,
good help is easy to find.
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Old 09-22-2010, 02:33 PM   #7
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Re: Whats With Some Guys?


I don't think the mason spoke out of turn. He perhaps knew that the guy liked the job he just did, and was - in joking - implying he would be getting more work from him.

I've had new subs do that to me once or twice - and it's just an ice breaker, he was probably looking for feedback, etc.

No reason to eliminate a good sub over it.
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Old 09-22-2010, 02:56 PM   #8
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Re: Whats With Some Guys?


After 25 years in the business, you probably have a thicker skin than you're showing here. Don't focus on such inane things that people say, most times they won't remember they said it the next day. I myself could care less what is said, within reason, if my job is going good and I'm content with the work provided. Maybe you should take up yoga.
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Old 09-22-2010, 03:24 PM   #9
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Re: Whats With Some Guys?


Quote:
Originally Posted by CookeCarpentry View Post
I don't think the mason spoke out of turn. He perhaps knew that the guy liked the job he just did, and was - in joking - implying he would be getting more work from him.

I've had new subs do that to me once or twice - and it's just an ice breaker, he was probably looking for feedback, etc.

No reason to eliminate a good sub over it.
I tend to agree. I had to edit my reply because I was unsure how to spell presum... presumptous, whatever. I miss my spell check!

I would hope to find someone that did quick, good work at a fair price.

Of course, we do not know the context/attitude in which the words were spoken. There may have been a 'badda bing' at the end.

I also kept in mind the warning from Leo and was trying to be diplomatic.
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Old 09-22-2010, 03:36 PM   #10
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Re: Whats With Some Guys?


People who yell all the time usually don't make ideal clients. I think you did those guys a favor by refusing to hire them.
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Old 09-22-2010, 03:50 PM   #11
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Re: Whats With Some Guys?


MBS maybe just had a bad day, it happens to all of us.

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Old 09-22-2010, 04:04 PM   #12
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Re: Whats With Some Guys?


I did work for a particular GC for several years. When I decided to move on to better pastures, he was pissed because he thought I owed him for getting an education from him over the years.

First off, he didn't give me the drive, ambition or ability to learn, so that's bulls#!t.

He gave me an hourly wage for services provided and when the check was cashed, we were even.

Anyway, when I heard that he thought I owed him my life, I said, "You're right, thank you, now let me get going so I can make myself a better one."
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Old 09-22-2010, 04:56 PM   #13
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Re: Whats With Some Guys?


"If it don't make dollars, it don't make sense (cents)"

The relationship between a Sub & GC revolves around dollars and sense. It could be a very symbiotic and mutually beneficial relationship.

From the position of a GC, I'm supplying YOU with work on a regular basis. Call it $50k worth of work/year. This is clearly beneficial to you/your business. Furthermore, not only does this money trickle in, but most often, it trickles in EASIER than it would coming directly from a HO. Working with the right GC can make your life A LOT easier.

So far, we've established briefly what a GC can do for a sub.

So what can a sub do for a GC in return? Nothing? Treat the GC as if he were an unknown HO? Does that make sense?

The rules aren't written but I would put it like this: If the relationship is making your life easier AND putting more money in your pocket vs not dealing with that particular person, then common sense dictates that you try and preserve that relationship by making certain sacrifices (money, time, etc.).

All bets are off when the relationship doesn't meet that criteria.

Subs that don't do anything "extra" for me (whatever that may be) will not remain my subs. I do my part, you do yours, I make your life easy, you make my life easy. It's a judgment call.

Last year a sub handed the HO his business card after he finished his job. The HO is not your client, I AM your client. You worry about keeping me happy. When you can no longer see ME, then I can't see YOU. I could have given him min. 5 kitchen cabinet installs ($3-$5k). How many do you think the HO gave him so far?

You can lead a horse to water...
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Old 09-22-2010, 05:06 PM   #14
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Re: Whats With Some Guys?


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............So what can a sub do for a GC in return? Nothing? Treat the GC as if he were an unknown HO? Does that make sense?.........
I'm not sure what you mean by this..........How about a sub sends YOU business? Let's say $50k a year. Now where's my cut of your action?

I'm an electrician. I don't to cabinets, floors, roofs, drywall, plumbing, etc. So when I tell a HO about you, are you going to lavish wealth on me? I doubt it.
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Old 09-22-2010, 05:27 PM   #15
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Re: Whats With Some Guys?


The bottom line is, business is business. If you are a sub and choose to circumvent the GC and go straight for the HO, you are employing bad business practices. You will reap what you sow.

As a GC, if you constantly throw additional work that is out of the original scope on top of your subs, without remunerating them properly, you are employing bad business practices. You also will reap what you sow.


The GC/sub relationship is one of mutual respect and if either party feels slighted, the relationship is doomed. Loyalty is born from respect on either side of the checkbook.

In any case, when the scope of work is complete and the final bill is paid, if both parties walk away feeling good about the job, both parties will be eager to work together again. Nobody owes anything to anyone and both parties should understand that.
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Old 09-22-2010, 06:14 PM   #16
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I'm not sure what you mean by this..........How about a sub sends YOU business? Let's say $50k a year. Now where's my cut of your action?

I'm an electrician. I don't to cabinets, floors, roofs, drywall, plumbing, etc. So when I tell a HO about you, are you going to lavish wealth on me? I doubt it.
I never said there are clear terms of tit-for-tat, it varies by situation.

But the general principle revolves around reciprocity. I do for you, you do for me. If I do for you, over and over again, and you do nothing for me in return...it's one sided.

You can reciprocate in a number of ways:

-Bump be up in the schedule (priority scheduling)
-Maybe a kick back
-Refer work to me
-Give me a discount
-Send me a christmas present
-Buy me a cup of coffee every now and then


WHATEVER! The point is, the relationship has to be there & I should feel some kind of appreciation and a little something that helps my business along the way.

If you referred work to me, I'd throw you a kick back or refer more work back to you, or something. Sounds like you've been dealing with the "other" kinds of contractors. Forget them, they're the losers. Business sense and common sense don't have to be 2 different things.
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Old 09-22-2010, 06:35 PM   #17
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Re: Whats With Some Guys?


There is no written law, do whatever you like. But I guarantee that life is easier when you help each other out. If you circumvent, that's like a kick to the balls. Like..."**** you very much"
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Old 09-22-2010, 06:47 PM   #18
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Re: Whats With Some Guys?


Any sub that would give out his business card to a GC's customer is not worth ever using again. Now if the GC gives you permission to do other work for a customer, that's different. I have often had GC's throw me jobs that they couldn't handle for various reasons. Now if the same homeowner asked me to GC a home for them, I would steer them back to the original. Some guys get this, some don't. It works both ways. I would never want to do business with the original poster. Just rubs me the wrong way.
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Old 09-22-2010, 07:09 PM   #19
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Re: Whats With Some Guys?


I have found a few trusted subs--a floor guy who always makes my work look good--a roofer that is fast and clean--a new electrician that the customers trust in their home-a painter who can hide my mistakes-----

and a few others---I ask only for the best work and receive it--I give their names out freely--

I am the one the customers seek out for solutions---this comes back to me ,time and time again.

The painter has landed me a lot of trim jobs---My carpet guy has sent me a few leads---

I figure that if there is work out there that I can't do,I want it to go to the people who have helped my business---If they are earning money because of me-- I know that when I need a favor--it will come.


It's always worked for me---Mike---
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Old 09-22-2010, 07:12 PM   #20
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Any sub that would give out his business card to a GC's customer is not worth ever using again. Now if the GC gives you permission to do other work for a customer, that's different. I have often had GC's throw me jobs that they couldn't handle for various reasons. Now if the same homeowner asked me to GC a home for them, I would steer them back to the original. Some guys get this, some don't. It works both ways. I would never want to do business with the original poster. Just rubs me the wrong way.

So if a customer asks me for a card, I have to ask the GC for permission? What am I, 5 years old?

Sorry... my company name, phone number & web site are slobbered all over my truck. You gonna tell me to take the vinyl off too?

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