Subcontractor Workers Comp - Business - Contractor Talk

Subcontractor Workers Comp

 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 06-20-2012, 06:18 PM   #1
Registered User
 
Paint pros's Avatar
 
Trade: Painting
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1
Rewards Points: 10

Subcontractor Workers Comp


Hey. Any body know if in the near future sub contractors will have to have workers comp?
Paint pros is offline  

Warning: The topics covered on this site include activities in which there exists the potential for serious injury or death. ContractorTalk.com DOES NOT guarantee the accuracy or completeness of any information contained on this site. Always use proper safety precaution and reference reliable outside sources before attempting any construction or remodeling task!

   

Advertisement

 

Old 06-20-2012, 06:21 PM   #2
Hair Splitter
 
TNTRenovate's Avatar
 
Trade: General
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Naperville, IL
Posts: 18,310
Rewards Points: 1,244

Re: Subcontractor Workers Comp


Sub contractors should have their own WC. Sub contractors are just contractors.

Advertisement

__________________
Tried & True on Facebook
Tried & True Website
Quote:
Originally Posted by CarpenterSFO View Post
You ask for your money frequently, and you collect it quickly, else you stop working immediately.
TNTRenovate is offline  
Old 06-20-2012, 06:49 PM   #3
Builder/Remodeler
 
ChrWright's Avatar
 
Trade: Builder/Remodeler
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Indianapolis, Indiana
Posts: 3,693
Rewards Points: 2,030

Re: Subcontractor Workers Comp


If you have employees, you should have work comp--whether you're a GC or a sub makes no difference.
__________________
Christopher Wright, CR: President @ WrightWorks, LLC
www.WrightWorks.net - Facebook - Instagram - Carmel Remodeling
Indianapolis Kitchen Remodeling Contractor - Master of the Home Feature
ChrWright is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to ChrWright For This Useful Post:
pinwheel (06-23-2012)
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 06-20-2012, 07:59 PM   #4
Pro
 
dom-mas's Avatar
 
Trade: masonry
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Ontario Canada
Posts: 8,133
Rewards Points: 626

Re: Subcontractor Workers Comp


In Canada yes. After Dec 31 2012, all contacrtors/subcontratcors etc.. will need to be registered under WSIB (workplace safety and Ins Board)regardless of whether you have employees or not. I don't like it. in Canada it is a private company that you are REQUIRED to register with. B$llsh!t if you ask me. I'm still not certain if that means that I will have to pay for premiums for myself as well as employees or it only means I would need to be registered even if I had no employees. Currently I could optionally cover myself (for 12.5% not sure about profit since I'm not incorporated)
__________________
New & restoration masonry construction
www.dominionmasonry.ca
dom-mas is offline  
Old 06-20-2012, 08:12 PM   #5
I'm a Mac
 
Chris Johnson's Avatar
 
Trade: ICF Construction
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Hog Town
Posts: 5,487
Rewards Points: 4,254

Re: Subcontractor Workers Comp


Dom-mas, you will be required (as I understand) that you must have WSIB and you must have coverage for yourself if you are on site. One person in the company can be exempt (could be you) provided they are never on site, occasional visits are permitted, but very occasional and even more rare.

My wife owns our company, currently I am an employee and pay the 8.80 per hundred on myself. So currently we meet the new regulations as she has no WSIB coverage on herself, but she may come to the site 3-4 times a year if she is traveling with me for the day, but even at that she never enters the fenced work area and observes from a far
__________________
Chris
Chris Johnson is offline  
Old 06-20-2012, 08:36 PM   #6
Pro
 
dom-mas's Avatar
 
Trade: masonry
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Ontario Canada
Posts: 8,133
Rewards Points: 626

Re: Subcontractor Workers Comp


I'm basically a one man show. Currently I have a labourer (covered by WSIB at 12.5 % according to my trade). i guess in the new year I'll be covering myself as well
__________________
New & restoration masonry construction
www.dominionmasonry.ca
dom-mas is offline  
Old 06-20-2012, 09:07 PM   #7
Thom
 
thom's Avatar
 
Trade: General Contractor/Homebuilder
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Albuquerque NM
Posts: 4,137
Rewards Points: 4,748

Re: Subcontractor Workers Comp


US federal law say if there are 3 or more workers. Many states are more restrictive. My state says WC is required if you have any employees or ever hire an assistant/sub.

As a GC, I am required to cover all subs that don't have it (one-man shows). The insurer charges me the same rate as the sub would pay but charges me on the full amount of the invoice, labor, materials, profit, and overhead. When I hire subs without insurance (rare but it happens) I provide the materials and the sub's price reflects the lack of insurance.
__________________
Patriotism is being loyal to your country all the time and your government when it deserves it. Mark Twain
thom is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to thom For This Useful Post:
TNTRenovate (06-20-2012)
Old 06-21-2012, 05:44 AM   #8
WICKED WOODCHUCKER
 
mnjconstruction's Avatar
 
Trade: Finish carpentry, drywall, Tile
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Bangor, Maine
Posts: 893
Rewards Points: 500

Re: Subcontractor Workers Comp


Holy you guys are lucky, those are low rates for wc.
mnjconstruction is offline  
Old 06-21-2012, 06:44 AM   #9
Pro
 
dom-mas's Avatar
 
Trade: masonry
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Ontario Canada
Posts: 8,133
Rewards Points: 626

Re: Subcontractor Workers Comp


Quote:
Originally Posted by thom View Post
US federal law say if there are 3 or more workers. Many states are more restrictive. My state says WC is required if you have any employees or ever hire an assistant/sub.

As a GC, I am required to cover all subs that don't have it (one-man shows). The insurer charges me the same rate as the sub would pay but charges me on the full amount of the invoice, labor, materials, profit, and overhead. When I hire subs without insurance (rare but it happens) I provide the materials and the sub's price reflects the lack of insurance.
In Ont there is a bunch of paperwork to go through when you do not have a WSIB # and you are a sole proprietor or partnership. You answer a bunch of questions and show past invoices and materials purchased etc...Then WSIB makes a determination of whether the GC has to cover you or not. You're supposed to do it for each contractor you work for. A pain in the butt but at least no ones paying for something they shouldn't be.
__________________
New & restoration masonry construction
www.dominionmasonry.ca
dom-mas is offline  
Old 06-21-2012, 09:49 AM   #10
WICKED WOODCHUCKER
 
mnjconstruction's Avatar
 
Trade: Finish carpentry, drywall, Tile
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Bangor, Maine
Posts: 893
Rewards Points: 500

Re: Subcontractor Workers Comp


Ive never understood why everyone doesnt have workmans comp anyway. its part of being in buisness. just like vehicles, gas, tools, insurances etc got to have it all! I wouldn't start a car dealership and not have any cars to sell.
mnjconstruction is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to mnjconstruction For This Useful Post:
FGCC (06-27-2012)
Old 06-21-2012, 10:39 AM   #11
The Duke
 
Kent Whitten's Avatar
 
Trade: Cabinet Maker
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Portland, Maine
Posts: 14,746
Rewards Points: 2,040

Re: Subcontractor Workers Comp


If it is legal where you are, you should not carry workers comp, but you should carry a disability policy. Wc just covers you under working conditions, whereas disability covers you all the time.

Thats what my insurance guy told me at least.
__________________
If you correct your mind, the rest of your life will fall into place ~Lao Tzu

SalmonFallsCabinetry.com

Salmon Falls Cabinetry on Facebook
Kent Whitten is offline  
Old 06-21-2012, 11:13 AM   #12
Pro
 
dom-mas's Avatar
 
Trade: masonry
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Ontario Canada
Posts: 8,133
Rewards Points: 626

Re: Subcontractor Workers Comp


In Ont if you don't have any employees you can't get a WSIB #. I guess you could incorporate and make yourself an employee but I have no desire for that since as Kent Whitten says, i prefer to have disability ins. it's moot for me now because i do have an employee and in the new year I'll have to have it for myself anyway.
__________________
New & restoration masonry construction
www.dominionmasonry.ca
dom-mas is offline  
Old 06-21-2012, 06:10 PM   #13
Pro
 
GregS's Avatar
 
Trade: Low Voltage
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Burlington, Ontario
Posts: 1,449
Rewards Points: 502

Re: Subcontractor Workers Comp


Quote:
Originally Posted by dom-mas
In Ont if you don't have any employees you can't get a WSIB #. I
Actually yes you can. When you fill out the independent contractors survey the results come back to you with a number, that'd your WSIB number. That's what I was using for a few years when it was just me, and it stayed the same when I got employees.

WSIB rep is actually coming to see me next week at the shop to help make sure I'm doing everything right. I have many questions for them.
GregS is offline  
Old 06-21-2012, 06:27 PM   #14
Pro
 
dom-mas's Avatar
 
Trade: masonry
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Ontario Canada
Posts: 8,133
Rewards Points: 626

Re: Subcontractor Workers Comp


Quote:
Originally Posted by GregS View Post
Actually yes you can. When you fill out the independent contractors survey the results come back to you with a number, that'd your WSIB number. That's what I was using for a few years when it was just me, and it stayed the same when I got employees.

WSIB rep is actually coming to see me next week at the shop to help make sure I'm doing everything right. I have many questions for them.
Weird, when i talked to them i specifically said that i was tired of filling in the stupid questionnaire, can i just get a number? The girl I talked to said WSIB was to protect employees who get hurt at work, if i didn't have employees I was fubared
__________________
New & restoration masonry construction
www.dominionmasonry.ca
dom-mas is offline  
Old 06-21-2012, 10:23 PM   #15
A.C.E.
 
allcityexterior's Avatar
 
Trade: roofer sider
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Madison Wisconsin
Posts: 67
Rewards Points: 75

Re: Subcontractor Workers Comp


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kent Whitten View Post
If it is legal where you are, you should not carry workers comp, but you should carry a disability policy. Wc just covers you under working conditions, whereas disability covers you all the time.

Thats what my insurance guy told me at least.
Good idea for the owner-who is not required to have WC but works on the tools.

__________________________________
Roofing Madison
Siding Madison
Madison Roofing
allcityexterior is offline  
Old 06-22-2012, 10:46 PM   #16
Pro
 
GregS's Avatar
 
Trade: Low Voltage
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Burlington, Ontario
Posts: 1,449
Rewards Points: 502

Re: Subcontractor Workers Comp


Quote:
Originally Posted by dom-mas View Post
Weird, when i talked to them i specifically said that i was tired of filling in the stupid questionnaire, can i just get a number? The girl I talked to said WSIB was to protect employees who get hurt at work, if i didn't have employees I was fubared
May as well just get it then.

If you are the principal then you do not have to get it on yourself. If you have 0 employees then your payroll for the period is $0 and your remittance is $0.

You will have to get it next year regardless.
GregS is offline  
Old 06-22-2012, 11:16 PM   #17
Pro
 
KennMacMoragh's Avatar
 
Trade: Repair/Remodel
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 3,906
Rewards Points: 3,278

Re: Subcontractor Workers Comp


The rules are different in each state. In Washington it is very strange, a GC does not have to have it if he's the only one doing the work. But if he opts to have workers comp for himself, then he has to abide by all of the state safety laws.

If it's a sub-contractor working for a GC and the licensed sub is the only one doing the work, no employees, and the GC starts giving his sub orders. Then the state can say "he's an employee, not a sub", and they will want you to pay workers comp for that sub. Which I don't like and I don't know how far they enforce that, but those are the laws in Washington.
KennMacMoragh is offline  
Old 06-23-2012, 07:30 AM   #18
Pro
 
dom-mas's Avatar
 
Trade: masonry
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Ontario Canada
Posts: 8,133
Rewards Points: 626

Re: Subcontractor Workers Comp


Quote:
Originally Posted by GregS View Post
May as well just get it then.

If you are the principal then you do not have to get it on yourself. If you have 0 employees then your payroll for the period is $0 and your remittance is $0.

You will have to get it next year regardless.
Right, but when the lady asked me my employees name and I replied that I didn't have an employee, she said I couldn't get a number and would have to keep filling out the questionnaire (she suggested just photocopying it and giving each different contractor a copy).
__________________
New & restoration masonry construction
www.dominionmasonry.ca
dom-mas is offline  
Old 06-23-2012, 10:48 AM   #19
Pro
 
Astrix's Avatar
 
Trade: Insurance Broker - Commercial Construction
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 688
Rewards Points: 666

Re: Subcontractor Workers Comp


Work Comp rules vary depending on what state or province you are in. My following comments relate to Ontario only and I see that several of my Ontario neighbours have posted to this thread so hopefully this info will be helpful to them.

The purpose of WSIB is to ensure that EMPLOYEES are protected. Therefore, if you have no employees, then you don't get a registration number. If you have employees that you have to cover, then you are also given the option of adding yourself (owner). If you have no employees then WSIB does not apply to you; and you have to go and get your own personal disability insurance from a private AD&D insurer.

If you had employees and now have none, your WSIB account goes dormant, but your # sticks with you and can be re-activated again if you are required to carry WSIB cover in the future.

The new Bill 119 that is coming into force at the end of 2012 is going to require commercial contractors and new residential contractors to be registered with WSIB, and to cover themselves as owner even if they have no employees. (Previously, these owners didn't get a WSIB # and had to get themselves personally covered through private insurance.)

Home renovators will still be exempt as long as they have no employees and all work is done by registered sub-contractors. Contracts have to be direct with individual homeowners and not through another contractor. The owner of the home renovation company cannot go on site.

Apparently, they are still looking at clarifying what if the owner usually never goes on site to do work but may have to step in to help get work done if behind schedule or a subbed worker calls in sick.

Everyone who uses subs is required to make sure you have proper clearance certificates from all of them. Did you know that you can check out potential subs on the WSIB website? All you need is their name. Also, you can even request the clearance certificates yourself if you have the sub's WSIB #. So rather than waiting for your subs to get you the proper cert, just have them give you their WSIB # at the time you sub-contract with them, and then order the cert yourself.

Webpage is here: Ontario eClearance

Hoping you find this helpful.
Astrix is offline  
Old 06-23-2012, 02:11 PM   #20
Pro
 
VinylHanger's Avatar
 
Trade: I'll do that for 500 bucks.
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Oregon
Posts: 9,902
Rewards Points: 10,838

Re: Subcontractor Workers Comp


Quote:
Originally Posted by Astrix View Post
Home renovators will still be exempt as long as they have no employees and all work is done by registered sub-contractors. Contracts have to be direct with individual homeowners and not through another contractor. The owner of the home renovation company cannot go on site.
I don't have a dog in the fight so I'm just asking out of curiousity.

How do you keep control of a project if you never go on site? Or does this mean, you just can't do the physical labor?

Advertisement

__________________
Your emergency does not constitute a problem with my Constitution.
VinylHanger is offline  


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Worker's Comp question upndnglo General Discussion 34 06-17-2013 04:45 AM
Workers comp and waivers in Michigan N Armstrong Business 7 02-02-2012 10:16 AM
Workers Comp - Rant katoman General Discussion 3 05-06-2009 04:50 PM

Join Now... It's Fast and FREE!

I am a professional contractor
I am a DIY Homeowner
Drywall Talk is for
PROFESSIONAL CONTRACTORS ONLY!

At DrywallTalk.com we cater exlusivly to professional contractors who make their living as a contractor. Knowing that many homeowners and DIYers are looking for a community to call home, we've created www.DIYChatroom.com DIY Chatroom is full of helpful advices and perfect for DIY homeowners.

Redirecing in 10 seconds
No Thanks
terms of service

Already Have an Account?