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Right Move To Hire A Project Manager?

 
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Old 09-07-2007, 07:58 PM   #1
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Right Move To Hire A Project Manager?


Here is the deal. The last two years have been a learning process. Business has grew in leaps and bounds. I have now moved out of the new business phase and have moved into growing a business phase. I figure out how to price jobs. Everything seemed to always take twice as long as i figure, so i doubled my pricing. I now have a million dollar profolio and some great references, so i am able to get the prices i am asking. It was hard to get what i was worth when i was selling work i have never done before. Am i expensive now? I do not think so. Its all realivent to the quality of work i am selling.

Its the first week of september and it looks like i have 4 major project that people want done first thing in the spring. All referals/previous customers. I will be using a mix of subs and employees. More work will defiently come in between now and March 1st when we start working.

I been talking to a guy the last month about possible coming on as a project manager for me. Basically he would handle the day to day managing of the jobs. He would pick up odds and ends, manage subs, make sure material gets to where it needs to go. Basicly it would free up an enormous amount of time for me. The guy wants in the neighborhood of 20 bucks a hour WITH bennies. He ran his own business for years but just could not cut it. Seems to be one of those guys who can do the work, but not run a business.

Does this seem like a smart move? I do not think i will ever be able to grow my business to anything substantial if i keep dealing with the day to day bs. I do not see how i can afford not to hire a person for this position. I am estimating sales next year of 1.6 mil.

What point did you guys start hiring managers?

Matt
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Old 09-07-2007, 08:48 PM   #2
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Re: Right Move To Hire A Project Manager?


come on its a no brainer at 1.6 million. We are trying to get to the million dollar mark this year and are very close. I will charge more and do more business next year and definetly hire a manager.

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Old 09-07-2007, 09:09 PM   #3
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Re: Right Move To Hire A Project Manager?


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Originally Posted by ultimatetouch View Post
come on its a no brainer at 1.6 million. We are trying to get to the million dollar mark this year and are very close. I will charge more and do more business next year and definetly hire a manager.

Thats what i am figuring. Whats funny, several people who all run business under a mil are telling me i should be able to manage up to 3 mil myself!

I think the main reason many small business fail to grow is because they fail to hire the right people.
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Old 09-07-2007, 09:17 PM   #4
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Re: Right Move To Hire A Project Manager?


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Originally Posted by ruskent View Post
Thats what i am figuring. Whats funny, several people who all run business under a mil are telling me i should be able to manage up to 3 mil myself!

I think the main reason many small business fail to grow is because they fail to hire the right people.
I think this is so true..they think they are the best and they do it the best also. Small business owners tend to do to much themselves. You cant do everything..simple as that. I work way to much and hate administrative work. For me to manage over a million dollars worth of work is way to strenuous. I am already over worked but I cant justify hiring somone at this point to manage projects. I want to take the proceeds home with me cause they are not that much at this point..except for a decent living.
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Old 09-07-2007, 09:20 PM   #5
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Re: Right Move To Hire A Project Manager?


Or fail to find the right people. I have always had a hard time accepting some of the stuff my previous employees did. I had a few homeowners and builders come up to me and say that the quality is not the same as when I was smaller. I got tired of trying to figure ways to get people to do it right.
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Old 09-07-2007, 09:51 PM   #6
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Re: Right Move To Hire A Project Manager?


Quote:
Originally Posted by ruskent View Post
Basicly it would free up an enormous amount of time for me. The guy wants in the neighborhood of 20 bucks a hour WITH bennies. He ran his own business for years but just could not cut it. Seems to be one of those guys who can do the work, but not run a business.
So he can do the work, but can he do the work and still meet the quality that you are selling?

Is $20US/hour really a lot? Is it enough to make sure he's not side-dealing in order to make some extra cash? Does he have any bad habits?

If it frees up your time, what are you going to be doing to contribute to the bottom line? And will that be enough to pay his salary and cover the screw-ups that he will make? (because he will make them since he is not you)
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Old 09-07-2007, 11:32 PM   #7
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Re: Right Move To Hire A Project Manager?


Before I started my company, I use to manage $10 mill/ year for a commercial general contractor. But one thing I realized was - Do I want to do $10 mill / yr to make $300,000/year, or do $1mill / yr to make $250,000/year. Weight the risk vs. the profit. Another thing I learned was - STICK TO QUALITY! If you are getting more work than you can handle, your prices are too low. You need to loose a minimum of 20% of your bids. I use to have the same mantality of " double the price and I'll be fine". But I have also experienced the fact that this will get you in trouble real fast. When you can't deliver because you can't hire "quality help" like you think you can going into it, it not only will get you in big trouble, but also hurt your reputation. 1 good referance will get you 1 good job. 1 bad referance will loose you 10 good jobs!
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Old 09-07-2007, 11:50 PM   #8
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Re: Right Move To Hire A Project Manager?


I need to add to my previous opinion since I read the rest of the first post. You made 2 comment that stood out to me. 1) " He ran his own business for years, but just couldn't cut it." and 2) " i will never be able to grow my business to anything substantial if i keep having to deal with the day to day bs" The construction business is a trade based business. The guy that "ran his own business for years, but just couldn't cut it" was a great tradesman, but didn't have the "BS" background. The guy that "has to deal the day to day bs" is a great BSman but doesn't have the trade background. My advise if you are a "Tradesman", hire someone to help with the business side of things. Hire someone to do your payroll. Hire an accountant to do your bills. Stay in the field where you can manage and train your employees, and not loose your quality. Expand when your help is ready, not when the market tells you your help is ready.
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Old 09-08-2007, 06:12 AM   #9
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Re: Right Move To Hire A Project Manager?


Definetly gave me someting to think about.

I just do not want to turn away these killer jobs is a market that is slow.


It would free up my time to sell more jobs. My strong point seems to be sales/design and marketing/advertising. Ofcourse i can do the work good, but i really do not have much interest in doing the acctual work much anymore. I am bad at bookkeeping and it seems that i am bad at managing jobs so that everything goes smoothly. One of the reasons is i have to much on my mind.

My workers produce good work because of me. I hold them to very high standards. I am not expecting to hire a pm and have him be perfect right away. I am still going to have to mold him into the project manager i want.

Maybe i'd be better off hiring a secertary to do all the books/paper work and order all material, and then hire a cheap kid to just be the guy to drive around and pickup the odds and ends. Thats one thing that eats up a enormous amount of time.
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Old 09-08-2007, 06:23 AM   #10
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Re: Right Move To Hire A Project Manager?


that might be your better bet....
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Old 09-08-2007, 06:53 AM   #11
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Re: Right Move To Hire A Project Manager?


The times when we have needed a project manager, salesman, or a sub we have turned to our painters to figure out which one would be the best fit. IMO it is impossible to just hire anyone and expect them to do what is asked. They need to be around you and your company for a while in order to accheive the results you are looking for, and understand the direction of your compnay. Maybe it wouldnt be a bad idea to hire someone to help in the office, and to promote one of your better guys to projet management position. It's hard to differentiate everyones role with in your orginization but the results will be outstanding. Each individual at your compnay should have one specific task that they are personally responsible for. That will take much needed weight off your shoulders and you would be able to concentrate more on sales or tradesman which ever will be best for your company.
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Old 09-08-2007, 10:18 AM   #12
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Re: Right Move To Hire A Project Manager?


Dude, you need to buy a book or two.

Not to be a jackass, but these questions you ask are getting a bit retarded.

I'm booked for 6 years... I can't do all the work myself... should I hire somebody???

Come on now. Do you think Sears is a business with just one guy doing everything?

Do you have a trade organization for what you do? Almost every industry has a trade organization, some of the better ones offer courses, books, and information such as bench marks and outlines for running a business, getting it from zero to infinity.

Every answer to your questions is YES. If you want to grow to a substantial company you need to hire infastructure to get it there.

If you do what everyone else does you won't get there without about 15 fits of starts and stops, 2 steps forward 3 steps back, two steps forward one step back. That's the monkey tred mill that most people run on.

Hire ahead of your production, reinvest into your business, it's an investment not an expense. You don't get bigger by trying to sell more and then running in circles trying to find people to then do the work.

SET DOWN, WRITE DOWN WHAT YOU WANT TO DO AND THEN FILL IN THE BLANKS WITH GOOD PEOPLE. THEN GO OUT AND EXPAND.

Rant done, but my God dude don't make this so hard on yourself. Buy a book. You need some basics under your belt and then you won't be struggling so much with the basics.

Once you believe that everything has already been done before you will finally realize you don't have to reinvent the wheel every time.

It seems to me you are following in the footsteps of others who spend 10 years spinning their wheels because you are being reactive instead of proactive.

You are reacting to a potential production manager presenting himself to you and now the wheels are turning about whether he would be a good thing or not.

If you get a handle on things it will be the other way around. You will know that you need a production manager at this time or not in your business plan and the issue will be finding the right one to hire, instead of do I need one?

As I keep saying you need to put your plan together and fill in the people in the holes you have, not the other way around.

Step 1 if you have never done it is on a sheet of paper write down every job there is and chart them all out on another piece of paper. From the owner all the way down to the minimum wage laborer. You can probably come up with at least 10 separate positions.

In a small company you might only need 1 person to fill all 10 positions, that was you when you first started, now you have gotten to the point where it is you and maybe 2 others to fill all 10 of those positions, once you get to a huge company it will be 20 people to fill those 10 positions.

Once you take the time to do this, things become much easier it's just a matter of separating the duties as you grow and assigning them to either a totally new person dedicated to that one thing or shuffling around the existing duties to better utilize people. But until you know these things you're going to be totally in the dark like you are now.

Last edited by Mike Finley; 09-08-2007 at 10:36 AM.
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Old 09-08-2007, 01:53 PM   #13
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Re: Right Move To Hire A Project Manager?


Wow...I totally agree with Mike.

Nice to see you outside the P&R Mike

You're steering the ship, if you hadn't already planned for a GM the day you started your business then you're late in the game. 1 million + a year, by yourself? You're doing something right. But how did you not have a plan for what you were going to do the day when you moved to phase 2?

I would say, this is the phase that could either make you or break you. Get in over your head, your over-head will eat you up. Hire the wrong people, they will sweep it out from under you. Skimp on necessities, you lose jobs. Infrastructure, infrastructure, infrastructure.

It might be worth the $ to hire a business coach, a person to come in, diagnose your company, assess your goals and come up with a plan for you. They don't come cheap, but it's something I've been thinking about myself. Hiring a Ivy league business school infrastructure guru will cost you, but you're hiring the best of the best and let's face it...none of us are Ivy league business school kids. We have our limits.
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Old 09-08-2007, 03:44 PM   #14
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Re: Right Move To Hire A Project Manager?


Quote:
Originally Posted by ruskent View Post
Definetly gave me someting to think about.

I just do not want to turn away these killer jobs is a market that is slow.


It would free up my time to sell more jobs. My strong point seems to be sales/design and marketing/advertising. Ofcourse i can do the work good, but i really do not have much interest in doing the acctual work much anymore. I am bad at bookkeeping and it seems that i am bad at managing jobs so that everything goes smoothly. One of the reasons is i have to much on my mind.

My workers produce good work because of me. I hold them to very high standards. I am not expecting to hire a pm and have him be perfect right away. I am still going to have to mold him into the project manager i want.

Maybe i'd be better off hiring a secertary to do all the books/paper work and order all material, and then hire a cheap kid to just be the guy to drive around and pickup the odds and ends. Thats one thing that eats up a enormous amount of time.
I have a guy that gets most of the materials when I dont have them delivered and he returns things, etc. I have another guy who is more experienced but seems to do better when I am there. I am encouraging him to be more productive and set the pace.
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Old 09-08-2007, 04:04 PM   #15
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Re: Right Move To Hire A Project Manager?


This is an outstanding thread for planning and I've enjoyed hearing everyone's perspectives.

Contractors are particularly suseptible to the "too big, too fast syndrome." I am also at a threshold of growth and analyzing the best next step.

There is a custom builder in my city who is one of two that build most of the $3 million+ custom homes here. He is well known for building very high end work with very high quality. I know for a fact he does $15 million a year gross with just himself, a superintendant, and a secretary.

His counterpart has an equal reputation, but has a much larger operation. For example, he operates a 15,000 square foot mill that rivals just about any lumber yard. He fabricates all of his own trim, doors, cabinets, etc.

Both guys are extremely successful, and both have different approaches to the size of their operation. In the end I think it's about how successful you are at establishing systems for what you do.

Myself, I will probably add an office person to handle bookeeping, invoicing, job costing, payroll, etc. etc. in order to free myself up to manage more projects in the field. Working ten hours a day in the field, and then 2-3 at night on paperwork is getting old.

Before I hire a superintendant/project manager, I want to already have strong systems in place for my subs & employees to ensure they will do things to my standards when I'm not around. As I see it, it's the closest thing I can do to cloning mysef.
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Old 09-08-2007, 07:19 PM   #16
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Re: Right Move To Hire A Project Manager?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Finley View Post
Dude, you need to buy a book or two.

Not to be a jackass, but these questions you ask are getting a bit retarded.

I'm booked for 6 years... I can't do all the work myself... should I hire somebody???

Come on now. Do you think Sears is a business with just one guy doing everything?

Do you have a trade organization for what you do? Almost every industry has a trade organization, some of the better ones offer courses, books, and information such as bench marks and outlines for running a business, getting it from zero to infinity.

Every answer to your questions is YES. If you want to grow to a substantial company you need to hire infastructure to get it there.

If you do what everyone else does you won't get there without about 15 fits of starts and stops, 2 steps forward 3 steps back, two steps forward one step back. That's the monkey tred mill that most people run on.

Hire ahead of your production, reinvest into your business, it's an investment not an expense. You don't get bigger by trying to sell more and then running in circles trying to find people to then do the work.

SET DOWN, WRITE DOWN WHAT YOU WANT TO DO AND THEN FILL IN THE BLANKS WITH GOOD PEOPLE. THEN GO OUT AND EXPAND.

Rant done, but my God dude don't make this so hard on yourself. Buy a book. You need some basics under your belt and then you won't be struggling so much with the basics.

Once you believe that everything has already been done before you will finally realize you don't have to reinvent the wheel every time.

It seems to me you are following in the footsteps of others who spend 10 years spinning their wheels because you are being reactive instead of proactive.

You are reacting to a potential production manager presenting himself to you and now the wheels are turning about whether he would be a good thing or not.

If you get a handle on things it will be the other way around. You will know that you need a production manager at this time or not in your business plan and the issue will be finding the right one to hire, instead of do I need one?

As I keep saying you need to put your plan together and fill in the people in the holes you have, not the other way around.

Step 1 if you have never done it is on a sheet of paper write down every job there is and chart them all out on another piece of paper. From the owner all the way down to the minimum wage laborer. You can probably come up with at least 10 separate positions.

In a small company you might only need 1 person to fill all 10 positions, that was you when you first started, now you have gotten to the point where it is you and maybe 2 others to fill all 10 of those positions, once you get to a huge company it will be 20 people to fill those 10 positions.

Once you take the time to do this, things become much easier it's just a matter of separating the duties as you grow and assigning them to either a totally new person dedicated to that one thing or shuffling around the existing duties to better utilize people. But until you know these things you're going to be totally in the dark like you are now.

Mike did i catch you at a bad time!??!? How am i being retroactive? I do not need one now, i need one in 5-6 months from now.

I come here for advice so i do not make the mistake of the guys who go 10 years and make no progress since they can not make decisions.

Whats funny is, alot of successful people tell me to sell the work first than figure how to manage it....
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Old 09-08-2007, 07:23 PM   #17
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Re: Right Move To Hire A Project Manager?


Quote:
Originally Posted by ruskent View Post

Whats funny is, alot of successful people tell me to sell the work first than figure how to manage it....

Their right, if you have no work you have nothing to manage.
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Old 09-08-2007, 09:47 PM   #18
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Re: Right Move To Hire A Project Manager?


Quote:
Originally Posted by ruskent View Post
Mike did i catch you at a bad time!??!? How am i being retroactive? I do not need one now, i need one in 5-6 months from now.

I come here for advice so i do not make the mistake of the guys who go 10 years and make no progress since they can not make decisions.

Whats funny is, alot of successful people tell me to sell the work first than figure how to manage it....
Sorry,

The point is that most of the mysteries you seem to be facing could be removed with some serious planning, study and introspection.

If there was anybody who would benefit from constructing a business plan with 1 year, 3 year and 5 year projections I would say it's you. Reason being most guys aren't going anywhere, you on the other hand it's easy to see are different. Business plans are a waste of time for what they are required for (getting a loan) but invaluable in making you sit down and actually think, plan and organize.

When you ask questions about project managers and such it hints that you are most likely pretty lacking in knowledge of how successful companies in your field, let alone successful companies in general function, the internal structures required beyond what "you hear" from the ones telling you to sell first and then hire.

You can hear what you want, believe what you want, but like I said, everything has been done before, you don't need to reinvent the wheel to create your business, you just need to find out what is considered the normal ways for a company to accomplish things.

Like I said if you have a professional trade organization I would hope you would explore things with them, the good ones will help you greatly. If that isn't available look into SCORE I'm sure you have a local chapter.

Nothing wrong with asking questions, but like the issues with GenY and the Internet, while this site and others are a good resource, they are what they are. Relying to heavily for the majority of your information from the web is handicapping yourself. What you get from the web is a cross section comprised by 90% of the users who are mediocre. The cream of the crop rarely give away their best information on a public forum like this.

Food for thought, take it for what it's worth.
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Old 09-09-2007, 08:50 AM   #19
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Re: Right Move To Hire A Project Manager?


Sell work and support it later is the way i think to. Why hire people when you dont have a company. Then I think if someone hires a person to do office work, salesman, or project manager for starters really depends on what works for you. The trick is the constant flow of work and the marketing. I believe when the works there you could buy yourself time with start dates, etc. while you are looking for help.
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Old 09-10-2007, 03:46 PM   #20
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Re: Right Move To Hire A Project Manager?


Get the sales first or build your team so that you can grow your reputation? The problem with building a giant backlog is that you are behind from the get go. Now you have to hire the first people who come along because you don't have time to waste interviewing and reviewing resumes, etc. It's fire department management, putting out one fire after another.

Christopher hit it on the head talking about systems. When you have developed the job description to the point that there is a checklist for how to do the job, you are ready to fill that position.

You don't wait until you're in a war to start training an army. Successful business startups raise the capital they need to put their team together first. I think you are in a great position to develop the PM position and have them on board and ready to go for next season, already knowing what you expect of them and exactly how to do things Your Way.

Or you could get a dalmatian and paint your truck bright red....

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