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The One Who Doesn't Want To Pay.

 
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Old 03-18-2014, 06:58 PM   #41
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Re: The One Who Doesn't Want To Pay.


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Interesting that so many have mentioned lien first, small claims second. Liens don't get you paid but small claims court does. It's only happened to us twice. Once the guy ran out of money. We ended up in court and the judge set up payments with interest. It was like $50 per month for 4 years. The other. a letter from our lawyers was enough to scare him into paying us.
Personally, I would lien first because there is usually some time sensitive information needed. It's easy and quick and relatively cheap to do. It doesn't hurt and it covers another base just in case.

I have never found that liens do much though. They just sit there until you do something about it.
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Old 03-18-2014, 07:49 PM   #42
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Re: The One Who Doesn't Want To Pay.


In today's market as the homes are increasing in value refi's are still pretty popular. That's when it will have to be settled.
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Old 03-18-2014, 07:57 PM   #43
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Re: The One Who Doesn't Want To Pay.


No, not always. Most if not all states have time limits on when the enforcement of the lien expires. From what I just read on CA law...

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Mechanics liens expire unless you file a lawsuit to enforce your Lien within 90 days of when the lien was recorded.
If they are refinancing in that time line, sure. If it is over, then your lien rights have expired and it is worthless.

One thing I used to do all the time before I got in business with a new contractor was to go to the courthouse and do a history check on lien submittals on the person or company. Eye opening sometimes.
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Old 03-18-2014, 08:28 PM   #44
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Re: The One Who Doesn't Want To Pay.


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One thing I used to do all the time before I got in business with a new contractor was to go to the courthouse and do a history check on lien submittals on the person or company. Eye opening sometimes.
Great idea!
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Old 03-18-2014, 09:20 PM   #45
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Re: The One Who Doesn't Want To Pay.


Hey Kent, you don't look like your avatar.
Really nice website.
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Old 03-18-2014, 10:32 PM   #46
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Re: The One Who Doesn't Want To Pay.


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No, not always. Most if not all states have time limits on when the enforcement of the lien expires. From what I just read on CA law...



If they are refinancing in that time line, sure. If it is over, then your lien rights have expired and it is worthless.

One thing I used to do all the time before I got in business with a new contractor was to go to the courthouse and do a history check on lien submittals on the person or company. Eye opening sometimes.
Kent... I would agree that many states provide by law the expiraation of a lien as a matter of statute if suit has not been filed timely.....

but I would be interested in the statuatory cite for your referenced Cali law.... as i was under the impression it took sort of a quite title action in Cali. (My kids live there is why I was interested)

I agree with your recommendations entirely...

however, I would note to a previous poster, that a favorable small claims court action does not result in payment either.... you still have to take enforcement/collection actions on a judgement.... replevin, garnishment,foreclosure dependent on your state.
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Old 03-19-2014, 05:24 AM   #47
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Re: The One Who Doesn't Want To Pay.


Can you tell I went through this? I hate having to learn these types of lessons. It was expensive and eye opening. I just hope I can help others avoid the costly errors I made.

I'll have to get the link later. I'm heading out and I'm on my phone.
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Old 03-19-2014, 09:30 PM   #48
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Re: The One Who Doesn't Want To Pay.


Thanks all for the advice. I can't talk about this until I make a couple of calls but I'm reading all the advice. I will talk about as soon as I think this won't affect me anymore so everyone can see the resolution of this matter.
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Old 03-19-2014, 09:39 PM   #49
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Kent totally unrelated to this but man I want my website and my whole company to be inspired by yours. You really hit on the head with your business philosophy.
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Old 03-19-2014, 10:21 PM   #50
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Re: The One Who Doesn't Want To Pay.


Liens are 100% useless because you have to go to court to exercise the lien. Court are just about as useless because you have to go to court one time to win, a 2nd time for an appeal and several more times to collect and the chances of getting your money are almost zero. Even when you are 100% right you lose in court, or the judge knocks the amount you want to 50%. Then, the customer appeals and the judge knocks the amount you got another 50%, or to zero. Then, you go nuts because you get zero and you had to pay all the court and supeona costs.


The first thing I always do is either make an appointment to meet with the customer, or just show up at his home, or office. All you need to tell him is you want your money and paying the bill will save everyone a lot of time. He will tell you what is bothering him and then you may have to tell your side of the story and give a discount. Most people who don't want to pay only want some sort of break on the bill, but almost never do they want a 100% discount. So, you have to ask him what is fair to him and negotiate.

Sometimes, it doesn't matter what you say and just showing up, unexpectedly, makes customers nervous. About 40 years ago, I did work for a general contractor who tried to avoid paying me. I went to his office and told him I wanted my f... money and I wanted it now. He immediately opened up his check book and wrote me a check.

I always operate with the theory that, "the wheel that squeaks the loudest gets greased first".
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Old 03-19-2014, 11:35 PM   #51
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Re: The One Who Doesn't Want To Pay.


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Liens are 100% useless because you have to go to court to exercise the lien. Court are just about as useless because you have to go to court one time to win, a 2nd time for an appeal and several more times to collect and the chances of getting your money are almost zero. Even when you are 100% right you lose in court, or the judge knocks the amount you want to 50%. Then, the customer appeals and the judge knocks the amount you got another 50%, or to zero. Then, you go nuts because you get zero and you had to pay all the court and supeona costs.

The first thing I always do is either make an appointment to meet with the customer, or just show up at his home, or office. All you need to tell him is you want your money and paying the bill will save everyone a lot of time. He will tell you what is bothering him and then you may have to tell your side of the story and give a discount. Most people who don't want to pay only want some sort of break on the bill, but almost never do they want a 100% discount. So, you have to ask him what is fair to him and negotiate.

Sometimes, it doesn't matter what you say and just showing up, unexpectedly, makes customers nervous. About 40 years ago, I did work for a general contractor who tried to avoid paying me. I went to his office and told him I wanted my f... money and I wanted it now. He immediately opened up his check book and wrote me a check.

I always operate with the theory that, "the wheel that squeaks the loudest gets greased first".
wow! I wonder why he didn't think of that? What a great idea, just go ask for your money and that should do it!
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Old 03-20-2014, 12:38 AM   #52
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Re: The One Who Doesn't Want To Pay.


What he didn't say is that he is six foot eight, 375 and looks like a tatooed biker.
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Old 03-20-2014, 08:09 AM   #53
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Re: The One Who Doesn't Want To Pay.


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wow! I wonder why he didn't think of that? What a great idea, just go ask for your money and that should do it!
You are 100% right, but my point was; all you have to do to get the conversation going is ask for your money.

The most important thing you want to do when arguing with any person is refrain from threatening and you want to immediately defuse your customer's threats. As soon as your customer mentions the word 'lawsuit' you make a strong point and tell your customer that nobody wants to have to go through the dragged out process of going to court and after it is all done nobody is a winner because we could have utilized our time more productively. After that statement and after people realize that you are not threatening them most customers refrain from threats and start to talk more productively.

Yes, knock on the door and ask for your money in a stern manner with the attitude that you are not leaving without your money, but not to the point where you fuel the fire.

One of my best methods (after you ask for your money) is to have a 3rd party talk to your customer. Customers will usually open up to a 3rd person more than to yourself because they feel they have to argue with you and Customers are very likely to negotiate with a 3rd party and reach a settlement. Personally, I enjoy being the 3rd party when negotiating with angry customers because the dynamics regarding how people open up and change their stories up is fascinating.

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Old 03-20-2014, 03:52 PM   #54
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Re: The One Who Doesn't Want To Pay.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kent Whitten View Post
One thing I used to do all the time before I got in business with a new contractor was to go to the courthouse and do a history check on lien submittals on the person or company. Eye opening sometimes.
That's another great idea. I wish I would have done that before I started with the guy in my last story.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pcplumber View Post
You are 100% right, but my point was; all you have to do to get the conversation going is ask for your money.

The most important thing you want to do when arguing with any person is refrain from threatening and you want to immediately defuse your customer's threats. As soon as your customer mentions the word 'lawsuit' you make a strong point and tell your customer that nobody wants to have to go through the dragged out process of going to court and after it is all done nobody is a winner because we could have utilized our time more productively. After that statement and after people realize that you are not threatening them most customers refrain from threats and start to talk more productively.

Yes, knock on the door and ask for your money in a stern manner with the attitude that you are not leaving without your money, but not to the point where you fuel the fire.

One of my best methods (after you ask for your money) is to have a 3rd party talk to your customer. Customers will usually open up to a 3rd person more than to yourself because they feel they have to argue with you and Customers are very likely to negotiate with a 3rd party and reach a settlement. Personally, I enjoy being the 3rd party when negotiating with angry customers because the dynamics regarding how people open up and change their stories up is fascinating.
You are right, you probably not going to get your money if you don't ask for it.

As far as the methods mentioned I agree but, people need to find out who they are dealing before going through the brain damage. From my situation mentioned I did all the things you mentioned because it is a PIA to lien or go to court etc. My Client ended up being in court all the time because he owns 500+ apartment buildings in the 5 state area, he just assume send it to the attorney than talk about it.

For those that read this now or in the future, Just know who your dealing with at all times...
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Old 03-20-2014, 04:19 PM   #55
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Re: The One Who Doesn't Want To Pay.


Sometimes all it takes is to inject the word "Lien" into the conversation.

Good luck.
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Old 03-22-2014, 03:17 PM   #56
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Re: The One Who Doesn't Want To Pay.


send him a notice.

intent to lien for non payment,

the template is here somewhere, under file swap, 1st thread

it worked for me.

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Old 03-22-2014, 04:05 PM   #57
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Re: The One Who Doesn't Want To Pay.


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Even if it did take you a week longer, that doesn't give him the right not to pay you..

Keep us posted.....good luck




Tell him since it took a week longer he is getting away cheap,you really would like an extra weeks pay.
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Old 03-24-2014, 11:59 AM   #58
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Re: The One Who Doesn't Want To Pay.


Liens are not that difficult to do. A lien only allows one the ability to foreclose on the property.
The owners can still sell the property with a mechanics lien.
You can file lien and then later be demanded to act on it.

I am going thru the process now.
My situation is we did work for common elements of 3 condo buildings.
Relationship went south during the contract, I liened 3 buildings, units were being sold anyway with: 1 short sales, 1 regular purchase, 1 bank sale

total is around 12,000. the 2 buildings with the lowest dollar amounts are moving. We are filing suit to foreclose on 1 building with the highest dollar amount due to being demanded by the other side to foreclose or lose the lien. Our state gives us 30 days.

We are running the full exercise here.
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Old 03-24-2014, 12:07 PM   #59
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Re: The One Who Doesn't Want To Pay.


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Liens are not that difficult to do. A lien only allows one the ability to foreclose on the property.
The owners can still sell the property with a mechanics lien.
You can file lien and then later be demanded to act on it.

I am going thru the process now.
My situation is we did work for common elements of 3 condo buildings.
Relationship went south during the contract, I liened 3 buildings, units were being sold anyway with: 1 short sales, 1 regular purchase, 1 bank sale

total is around 12,000. the 2 buildings with the lowest dollar amounts are moving. We are filing suit to foreclose on 1 building with the highest dollar amount due to being demanded by the other side to foreclose or lose the lien. Our state gives us 30 days.

We are running the full exercise here.
What State RED?
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Old 03-24-2014, 12:21 PM   #60
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Re: The One Who Doesn't Want To Pay.


Illinois

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