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News From A State With No Licensing Or Bonding

 
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Old 11-27-2014, 09:11 PM   #61
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Re: News From A State With No Licensing Or Bonding


So you are not going to answer yet another question that would completely implode your point.

Do you think a GC should be required to carry a license that proves their credentials?

Do you think that something should be fixed even if it isn't in need of repair?
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Old 11-27-2014, 09:12 PM   #62
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Re: News From A State With No Licensing Or Bonding


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Originally Posted by Californiadecks View Post
I think I'm right.
Thinking and being are two completely different things. Difference between you and me, I know I'm right.
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Old 11-27-2014, 09:13 PM   #63
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Re: News From A State With No Licensing Or Bonding


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Thinking and being are two completely different things. Difference between you and me, I know I'm right.
You're only thinking you know your right.

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Old 11-27-2014, 09:15 PM   #64
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Re: News From A State With No Licensing Or Bonding


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Originally Posted by Californiadecks View Post
Your only thinking you know your right.
Nah, I know that I know I'm right. You only think that I think that I know I'm right.

But nice diversion from my questions again.
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Old 11-28-2014, 10:19 AM   #65
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Re: News From A State With No Licensing Or Bonding


Long discussion, but if someone is a paper contractor and everything is subbed, what's the point of GC licensing if they don't do any of the building?

It would seem to be a barrier to entry that increases consumer costs and business costs as well.
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Old 11-28-2014, 01:45 PM   #66
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Re: News From A State With No Licensing Or Bonding


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Long discussion, but if someone is a paper contractor and everything is subbed, what's the point of GC licensing if they don't do any of the building?

It would seem to be a barrier to entry that increases consumer costs and business costs as well.
Because he can do the work.

That would only make sense from a states point of view if he was forbidden to do any in house work at all. In this state a GC is a critical license, meaning the state Board is stricter about proving your experience and require documentation. But a GC can also do 99% of all work in house too. Including all the other trades. I think I can't dig a well or build a road (general engineering). I think I can't do fire sprinklers either. However I can paper those trades out.
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Old 11-28-2014, 02:15 PM   #67
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Re: News From A State With No Licensing Or Bonding


The reason a homeowner can do his own work he is the one at stake for loosing money- getting his true value.

Being licensed homeowners rely on the governing office to prequalify the contractor. Financially is a big part. Can't afford to be in business maybe you shouldnt be.
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Old 11-28-2014, 02:17 PM   #68
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Re: News From A State With No Licensing Or Bonding


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Originally Posted by Californiadecks View Post
That would only make sense from a states point of view if he was forbidden to do any in house work at all.
No, if people were forbidden doing work requiring a license for which they weren't licensed, which is how it is in every state I know of. Around here, that's plumbing, electrical, heating, sprinkler systems.

If framing required a license, I'd hire a licensed framing sub for framing. I only do the unlicensed parts, and some of them I'll sub out. I TRY not to do any framing or roofing any more, but that doesn't always work out, especially on small projects.
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Old 11-28-2014, 02:20 PM   #69
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Re: News From A State With No Licensing Or Bonding


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The reason a homeowner can do his own work he is the one at stake for loosing money- getting his true value.
Codes and code compliance is till critical, since the house will likely be sold at some point. The buyer shouldn't be saddled with an unsafe house simply because someone had a "good" idea.
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Old 11-28-2014, 02:21 PM   #70
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Re: News From A State With No Licensing Or Bonding


No builders license in VT. However there is in Tennessee. There, if you build a house without a license you must live in it for two years before selling. No renting it either.
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Old 11-28-2014, 04:34 PM   #71
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Re: News From A State With No Licensing Or Bonding


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Originally Posted by hdavis View Post
Long discussion, but if someone is a paper contractor and everything is subbed, what's the point of GC licensing if they don't do any of the building?

It would seem to be a barrier to entry that increases consumer costs and business costs as well.
That's my take on it.

Here in MI, the then head of MAHB argued against the states' own code officials recommending increased attic insulation on new builds, The state ceded, and the old standard stayed.

Then, the same MAHB actively pursued the state to require 60 hours per year in ongoing education for every licensed builder. Again, the state ceded, and that is now law.

You have to pay attention to what the top carnivores in the food chain are doing and fairly gauge why they do the things they do.

Never do they do things out of concern for the consumer. It may turn out that way, but only if it increases their marketshare amd/or margins first.


I'm not slamming them for that - that's the reasons corporations exist - to maximize profit for their owners.

In the case of additional education - that 60 hours represents 1 and 1/2 weeks of man hours that the small mom & pop builder have to take out of their available waking hours.

For a corporate builder - its not even a blip on the salary radar screen.

IOW, those hours raise the barrier to entry/increase the baseline operating costs especially for the smallest builder.
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Old 11-28-2014, 05:49 PM   #72
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Re: News From A State With No Licensing Or Bonding


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Originally Posted by SmallTownGuy View Post
That's my take on it.

Here in MI, the then head of MAHB argued against the states' own code officials recommending increased attic insulation on new builds, The state ceded, and the old standard stayed.

Then, the same MAHB actively pursued the state to require 60 hours per year in ongoing education for every licensed builder. Again, the state ceded, and that is now law.

You have to pay attention to what the top carnivores in the food chain are doing and fairly gauge why they do the things they do.

Never do they do things out of concern for the consumer. It may turn out that way, but only if it increases their marketshare amd/or margins first.


I'm not slamming them for that - that's the reasons corporations exist - to maximize profit for their owners.

In the case of additional education - that 60 hours represents 1 and 1/2 weeks of man hours that the small mom & pop builder have to take out of their available waking hours.

For a corporate builder - its not even a blip on the salary radar screen.

IOW, those hours raise the barrier to entry/increase the baseline operating costs especially for the smallest builder.
most of my customers check the license first. It says right on the website that their recourse of action may be limited more if an unlicensed contractor screws up thier home, or breaks licensing laws. True or not, this directs those people to legitimate contractors in this state.

Last edited by Calidecks; 11-28-2014 at 05:56 PM.
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Old 11-28-2014, 05:53 PM   #73
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Re: News From A State With No Licensing Or Bonding


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Originally Posted by SmallTownGuy View Post

Then, the same MAHB actively pursued the state to require 60 hours per year in ongoing education for every licensed builder. Again, the state ceded, and that is now law.

You have to pay attention to what the top carnivores in the food chain are doing and fairly gauge why they do the things they do.

IOW, those hours raise the barrier to entry/increase the baseline operating costs especially for the smallest builder.
What the MAHB & the State of Michigan did & what PLA's do is to severely restrict competion aka "rig the system".
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Old 11-28-2014, 06:14 PM   #74
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Re: News From A State With No Licensing Or Bonding


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Originally Posted by Californiadecks View Post
most of my customers check the license first. It says right on the website that their recourse of action may be limited more if an unlicensed contractor screws up thier home, or breaks licensing laws. True or not, this directs those people to legitimate contractors in this state.
Legitimate? You mean licensed. I've been watch "To Catch a Contractor". What's weird is it takes place in...you guessed it, California. All but one so far is a licensed contractor.

So they got pointed to "legitimate" contractors that ripped them off. So much for being legitimate.
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Old 11-28-2014, 06:20 PM   #75
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Re: News From A State With No Licensing Or Bonding


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Originally Posted by TNTSERVICES View Post
Legitimate? You mean licensed. I've been watch "To Catch a Contractor". What's weird is it takes place in...you guessed it, California. All but one so far is a licensed contractor.

So they got pointed to "legitimate" contractors that ripped them off. So much for being legitimate.
A license doesn't mean they're honest nor does it mean they are good, as goes for any profession. No one said that. But what is certain is an unlicensed contractor is not a legitimate contractor in this state.

Last edited by Calidecks; 11-28-2014 at 06:32 PM.
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Old 11-28-2014, 06:21 PM   #76
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Re: News From A State With No Licensing Or Bonding


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Originally Posted by TNTSERVICES View Post
Legitimate? You mean licensed. I've been watch "To Catch a Contractor". What's weird is it takes place in...you guessed it, California. All but one so far is a licensed contractor.

So they got pointed to "legitimate" contractors that ripped them off. So much for being legitimate.
Also what is certain is HO'S in this state are directed to legitimate contractors on the CSLB website.

Edit. However not all licensed contractors are legitimate if they are breaking the law. Is that better Rob?

Last edited by Calidecks; 11-28-2014 at 06:34 PM.
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Old 11-28-2014, 06:24 PM   #77
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Re: News From A State With No Licensing Or Bonding


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Originally Posted by TNTSERVICES View Post
Legitimate? You mean licensed. I've been watch "To Catch a Contractor". What's weird is it takes place in...you guessed it, California. All but one so far is a licensed contractor.

So they got pointed to "legitimate" contractors that ripped them off. So much for being legitimate.
Another thing I might add, if those guys on that show broke the law, which most did, if not all, then they are not contracting legitimately.
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Old 11-28-2014, 06:28 PM   #78
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Re: News From A State With No Licensing Or Bonding


le·git·i·mate
adjective
ləˈjidəmət/
1.
conforming to the law or to rules.
So a license by itself doesn't make them legitimate nor did I say that.
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Old 11-28-2014, 06:36 PM   #79
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Re: News From A State With No Licensing Or Bonding


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Originally Posted by Californiadecks View Post
le·git·i·mate
adjective
ləˈjidəmət/
1.
conforming to the law or to rules.
So a license by itself doesn't make them legitimate nor did I say that.
As a matter of fact you did that several times. Re-read your previous posts:

Quote:
But what is certain is an unlicensed contractor is not a legitimate contractor in this state.
Quote:
Also what is certain is HO'S in this state are directed to legitimate contractors on the CSLB website.
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Old 11-28-2014, 06:38 PM   #80
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Re: News From A State With No Licensing Or Bonding


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As a matter of fact you did that several times. Re-read your previous posts:
No where did I say a license is the only thing making a contractor legitimate. I've had people contact me through the state Board so I know it directs people to legitimate contractors. I'm the proof.

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