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-   -   How to pay and time manage trade contractors? (https://www.contractortalk.com/f16/how-pay-time-manage-trade-contractors-415649/)

chicagogc2 02-07-2019 04:43 PM

How to pay and time manage trade contractors?
 
Hi,

I am relatively new to being a GC and wanted to get an idea about what technology others are using to pay and manage time for trade contractors?

Also, I also wanted to ask if most GC's pay trade contractors by project based or time/material based.

chicagogc2 02-07-2019 04:47 PM

How to pay and time manage trade contractors?
 
Hi,

I am relatively new to being a GC and wanted to get an idea about what technology others are using to pay and manage time for trade contractors?

Also, I also wanted to ask if most GC's pay trade contractors by project based or time/material based.

jhark123 02-07-2019 06:33 PM

It's not an either/or to me. What trade knowledge/experience do you have? What are you building?

chicagogc2 02-07-2019 08:01 PM

Working on commercial office rehab and also residential rehab above 100k.

I tend to have hourly contractors and I’m not sure if I am costing myself more or less.

chicagogc2 02-07-2019 08:02 PM

When do you decide to use hourly versus project based?

Tinstaafl 02-07-2019 08:35 PM

If you're working 100K+ jobs, it's a little late to be asking strangers on the internet how to handle the finances.

Paying hourly or by the job is a judgement call. If you can trust the sub not to milk the hours, hourly is generally the fairest to both of you.

If instead you pay by the job, the sub is going to quote a CYA number that could be well in excess of what work is actually entailed.

There's no easy, one fits all answer to your question.

griz 02-07-2019 11:38 PM

i gave t&m jobs to guys i knew and trusted...

no deviation...

if it was a competitive bid job, i wanted hard numbers then held the guys feet to the fire to make sure he did everything in his section....

Xtrememtnbiker 02-07-2019 11:57 PM

We have recently started working for a GC who's primary work is higher end kitchen and baths. Everything has been T&M but I have also given them a quick ball park estimate just to see how it might turn out. It is always going to cost them less for T&M and it's just easier for everybody.

Our subs it depends on what's going on and the scope of it. Our mason and drywall guy are usually T&M, our floor guys and insulation guys are always a quote.

It depends on the scope of work and our relationship with the sub.

Stunt Carpenter 02-08-2019 12:04 AM

Once you have a relationship with a trade they sometimes will give you a price sheet for certain tasks that you do often. This way you know exactly what they are going to charge you without having the quote everything.

I have a price sheet for my plumber and electrican. My drywall guy is a minimum charge for small projects and then a sqft price after that. Nice to be able to bid with hard numbers.

TheConstruct 02-08-2019 01:21 AM

I do both subcontract work for builders and occasionally hire subs for my own jobs. I prefer T&M in both cases.

Fishindude 02-08-2019 04:51 PM

Get a quote for them prior to starting the work. Pay them when complete or monthly based upon what percentage of the work is complete to date.

Only give a sub a T&M deal if you client is okay with paying T&M for them. Some subs are great but when they work T&M you wind up paying for their time on cell phone, etc., and jobs drag out longer.

woodspike 02-09-2019 08:32 AM

really matters ( to me) if that sub is actually the guy on the job ,doing the work , or at least being there all the time
if he`s doing T&M , and he doesn`t always have the same guy/s on each job , or he has new guys , those guys could slack , or take longer than needed.they have no loyalty to you
only way i do a t&m is if the guy gave us an aprox. outside cost ( not to exceed )

also it helps if you really know your trade , and what these subs are actually doing ,so you can come onto the site and realize if things are dragging or not.

also it helps if you really know your trade , and what these subs are actually doing ,so you can come onto the site and realize if things are dragging or not.

thats not a typo , i just wanted to repeat that.

also , i do`t agree someone is going to give a totally absurd "CYA" over the top cost
thats why you get 2 or 3 bids
sorry even if i know a sub well , i still now and again check his prices against others . just to keep them honest , and also just to keep me from knowing i`m not making a fool of myself.

i`m in miami , i do tend to not trust as much
nature of the beast

Tinstaafl 02-09-2019 08:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by woodspike (Post 7473393)
also , i do`t agree someone is going to give a totally absurd "CYA" over the top cost
thats why you get 2 or 3 bids

Didn't mean to imply the CYA would necessarily be absurd. But if you consistently give firm bids based on precisely how long you think a job will take and exactly what the material costs will be, you're a heckuva lot better at this game than I.

Platesurfer 02-09-2019 09:14 AM

Around here its almost all by the job or sq ft. Thats just how the more experienced subs seem to operate.

Sent from my LG-H812 using Tapatalk

cwatbay 02-09-2019 11:22 AM

Maybe because we just work commercial (98%). But I would say all the major trades like: electrical, HVAC, plumbing, Grading, Foundations, etc are all bids. No T and M.

The only time I rarely see T and M is when a contractor is hiring some off the books hacks for painting touch up, cleaning and a few minor jobs on the project. Usually these are cash only guys and the GC is trying to get by on the cheap. And, from what I have seen, these cash guys are always trying to pad their hours.

B.Johnson 02-09-2019 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tinstaafl (Post 7473403)
Didn't mean to imply the CYA would necessarily be absurd. But if you consistently give firm bids based on precisely how long you think a job will take and exactly what the material costs will be, you're going to be out of business before long.

I really thought that this is where you were going. :whistling

Stunt Carpenter 02-09-2019 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by woodspike (Post 7473393)
really matters ( to me) if that sub is actually the guy on the job ,doing the work , or at least being there all the time

if he`s doing T&M , and he doesn`t always have the same guy/s on each job , or he has new guys , those guys could slack , or take longer than needed.they have no loyalty to you

only way i do a t&m is if the guy gave us an aprox. outside cost ( not to exceed )



also it helps if you really know your trade , and what these subs are actually doing ,so you can come onto the site and realize if things are dragging or not.



also it helps if you really know your trade , and what these subs are actually doing ,so you can come onto the site and realize if things are dragging or not.



thats not a typo , i just wanted to repeat that.



also , i do`t agree someone is going to give a totally absurd "CYA" over the top cost

thats why you get 2 or 3 bids

sorry even if i know a sub well , i still now and again check his prices against others . just to keep them honest , and also just to keep me from knowing i`m not making a fool of myself.



i`m in miami , i do tend to not trust as much

nature of the beast



It really matters to me also that my subs are actually the guy on site. I think it also matters to my customers. I usually mention it during the first meeting

Warren 02-09-2019 04:54 PM

Most of the remodel jobs we do are T&M. This allows the job to start before all of the decisions are made. Lots of well off customers want to start quickly, and are not interested in making most of the decisions early in the job. T&M allows them flexibility with the build process, and allows the subs to provide the very best job without sweating every hour worked towards their bid number.
,
Early in my business, we only used T&M on "extras". These days, at least half of my work is done this way. We have even framed houses by the hour when they were started, but without completed plans.

chicagogc2 02-10-2019 07:00 PM

Great feedback from everyone!

For T & M tracking are there any good software suggestions that use SMS/Mobile app and are easy for any trade contractor to use?

I have had trouble getting my trade contractors to use basic time tracking software. I really wanted to see if there was something that was SMS driven for simplicity.

Fouthgeneration 02-10-2019 10:46 PM

Installiing spy gear in space that is totally demoed is going to be tough...:whistling

Remember if YOU micro-mange the subs, YOU have to PAY their PAYROLL taxes.

WIth time and Material Subs you are only a hop and skip from being the straight up employer, with all the payroll and with holding mandates.....:sad:

It sounds to me you want BOTH sides of your biscuit buttered....

Trust, But verify......IF you can't be there, hire some one YOU TRUST to watch them work (elderly, disabled, pregnant, and or college student)

Are you paying a fair wage for night and evening shifts? overtime?

Is the job tougher then normal? Demo is dirty, noisy, and inconvenient, even to the neighbors, pretending it isn't is silly.


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