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Extra Work Questions For The Pros

 
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Old 02-06-2007, 09:43 PM   #1
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Extra Work Questions For The Pros


I have got a large job going on right now and the HO is wanting lots of extra work outside of the contract, I agree while the walls and cielings are open to do these things. I am familiar with writing the extra work down on an extra work order sheet for the homeowners, normally my jobs in the past were small enough so I could just bill them the extra work with the final payment and it was no big deal.

Now the problem here is and my question is.....do I have to wait until the end of the job at final to collect for the extra work that has been completed, or can I bill them as soon as the extra work has been completed. I just dont want $5,000 in retentions if I dont have to have it.

Thanks -Anthony
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Old 02-06-2007, 10:27 PM   #2
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Re: Extra Work Questions For The Pros


tough crowd tonight

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Old 02-06-2007, 10:35 PM   #3
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Re: Extra Work Questions For The Pros


make a change order sheet figure out a price or atleast a good idea and make them sign it
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Old 02-06-2007, 10:37 PM   #4
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Re: Extra Work Questions For The Pros


You should have dropped the pro part. That way more of us would answer

I don't see why you can't bill for the extras when they are completed. I often do along wih a regular draw
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Old 02-06-2007, 10:55 PM   #5
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Re: Extra Work Questions For The Pros


Make a change order stating the price and have them sign it. Make sure they know that you have a higher markup on changes,tell them about the extra work for the subs to change thier contracts and schedules and the extra work for you to do the same. Bill them for it in the next draw (after the work is done).
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Old 02-06-2007, 10:56 PM   #6
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Re: Extra Work Questions For The Pros


A.W. you can do it however you want. It's perfectly common, legal and ethical to define the terms on the change order of how payment is to be made. Ours is pretty simple, it says payment due as extra work is completed.

Also if your schedule with them can become extended and you think it might be a problem down the road, add another statement that change orders will automatically negate the agreed upon completion date and a new completion date must be determined.
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Old 02-07-2007, 08:45 AM   #7
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Re: Extra Work Questions For The Pros


Will do, thanks for the input guys.....time to write up the extra work order spreadsheet.....chaaaa chiiing

Lat question......have you guys ever had a HO want an itemized list of material and labor charges??
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Old 02-07-2007, 05:04 PM   #8
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Re: Extra Work Questions For The Pros


I've met a homeowner that wanted that, but I've never had a customer, because those homeowners never become customers if that is what they insist on.
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Old 02-07-2007, 06:28 PM   #9
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Re: Extra Work Questions For The Pros


Here's a cut and paste from my estimate/terms.

Additional Work Requests:
Should you require any additional work to be done while we are present, the cost for labour and materials for the additional work must be quoted seperate from the original proposal. If our schedule permits, the additional work may be added to the original paint proposal pending approval between Danahy Design, and you the customer. Otherwise a new date will have to be arranged for completion of the additional work at our next earliest convenience.
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Old 02-07-2007, 06:36 PM   #10
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Re: Extra Work Questions For The Pros


When you guys encounter some unexpecteds on the job that require more than the contract stated do you...

A: Do the work then write the change order and T&M it.
B: Write the change order and wait for the HO to sign off on it.
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Old 02-07-2007, 07:24 PM   #11
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Re: Extra Work Questions For The Pros


Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric K View Post
When you guys encounter some unexpecteds on the job that require more than the contract stated do you...

A: Do the work then write the change order and T&M it.
B: Write the change order and wait for the HO to sign off on it.
I choose "B"

I wouldnt want to do any work without the HO's consent and signature of the extra work to be completed.
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Old 02-07-2007, 07:25 PM   #12
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Re: Extra Work Questions For The Pros


Quote:
Originally Posted by Danahy View Post
Here's a cut and paste from my estimate/terms.

Additional Work Requests:
Should you require any additional work to be done while we are present, the cost for labour and materials for the additional work must be quoted seperate from the original proposal. If our schedule permits, the additional work may be added to the original paint proposal pending approval between Danahy Design, and you the customer. Otherwise a new date will have to be arranged for completion of the additional work at our next earliest convenience.

Thanks Danahy
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Old 02-07-2007, 07:55 PM   #13
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Re: Extra Work Questions For The Pros


If you do the work first, before getting something in writing agreeing to the scope and the cost, you are just asking for problems down the road.

Even the items I repeatedly encounter in my trade, which I have prices listed for in the initial contract, I make sure that it gets signed for.

Also, if you encounter a hard -azz custimer that does not want to sign for extra work that becomes required to complete your original scope of contracted work, you should add a clause in your original contract boilerplate language that deals with this scenario. Additionally, you should add a phrase which indicates, that by the customer allowing the work to proceed after they have been notified in writing, irregardless if they have signed the change order or not, that they have implied consent to the changes and to the additional costs incurred.

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Old 02-08-2007, 05:02 PM   #14
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Re: Extra Work Questions For The Pros


Here's part of our contract (feel free to use any of it)

E. CHANGE ORDERS, CONCEALED CONDITIONS, ADDITIONAL WORK, AND
CHANGES IN THE WORK


1. PEOPLE AUTHORIZED TO SIGN CHANGE ORDERS: The following people are authorized to sign Change Orders:

************__________ (please initial)

************__________ (please initial)

2. CONCEALED CONDITIONS: This Agreement is based solely on the observations Contractor was able to make with the structure in its current condition at the time this Agreement was bid. If additional Concealed Conditions are discovered once work has commenced which were not visible at the time this proposal was bid, Contractor will stop work and point out these unforeseen Concealed Conditions to Owner so that Owner and Contractor can execute a Change Order for any Additional Work.

3. CHANGES IN THE WORK: During the course of the project, Owner may order changes in the work (both additions and deletions). The cost of these changes will be determined by the Contractor and the cost of this Additional Work will be added to Contractor's profit and overhead in order to arrive at the net amount of any additional Change Order work. In addition, there will be an administrative fee of $200.00 added for each change order.

Contractor's profit and overhead, and supervisory labor will not be credited back to Owner with any deductive Change Orders (work deleted from Agreement by Owner).

4. DEVIATION FROM SCOPE OF WORK IN CONTRACT DOCUMENTS: Any alteration or deviation from the Scope of Work referred to in the Contract Documents involving extra costs of materials or labor (including any overage on ALLOWANCE work) will be executed upon a written Change Order issued by Contractor and should be signed by Contractor and Owner prior to the commencement of any Additional Work. This Change Order will become an extra charge over and above the Lump Sum Contract Price referred to at the beginning of this Agreement and will be paid for at time of signing.

5. CHANGES REQUIRED BY PLAN CHECKERS OR FIELD INSPECTORS: Any increase in the Scope of Work set forth in the Contract Documents which is required by plan checkers or field inspectors with city or county building/planning departments will be treated as Additional Work to this Agreement for which the Contractor will issue a Change Order.

Now for the IMPORTANT part:

PAYMENT OF CHANGE ORDERS: Payment for each Change Order is due upon signing of Change Order and prior to the start of any Change Order work.

Using the above we have found that we never have any client that is surprised at the end of the job....or trying to argue about money after the work has been done...that's not a situation you want to find yourself in.

J
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Old 02-08-2007, 05:06 PM   #15
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Re: Extra Work Questions For The Pros


Here's a PDF file of one of our change orders to take a look at.

J
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File Type: pdf Ehrhardt2 - CO 2.pdf (18.2 KB, 343 views)
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Old 02-08-2007, 07:23 PM   #16
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Re: Extra Work Questions For The Pros


Thanks for the very helpful info JF!
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Old 02-08-2007, 07:43 PM   #17
 
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Re: Extra Work Questions For The Pros


Our policy on change orders is that the total amount of the change is due BEFORE the change proceeds and requires approval of both the homeowner and the contractor. At contractors discretion, change may be paid upon the next scheduled draw. There is an estimating fee of 65.00/hr whether or not the change is elected. The reason you need to get paid for these changes before, is that after the work is completed, you have no legal recourse in terms of the original contract.
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Old 02-09-2007, 10:24 AM   #18
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Re: Extra Work Questions For The Pros


No problem Anthony

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Old 02-09-2007, 03:40 PM   #19
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Re: Extra Work Questions For The Pros


have them sign and date and agree to your "Change Order form" (we call it a "Variation"). Then usually we charge them this amount at the next progress claim when due. We have usually five progress claims during the course of the job and either one of these we can bill them the Variations to date. A simple process.
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Old 02-09-2007, 05:17 PM   #20
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Re: Extra Work Questions For The Pros


I like the idea of having some kind of change order form pre made on the truck. Some of these decisions need to be made ASAP while working so your left with the situation of go home earn nothing and loose time or get verbal agreement via phone which anyone can be reached anywhere these days. Whernever I do this with out paper people have a problem--- not with agreeing--- but remembering and it seems the value of your time becomes an issue. Labor is always the most expensive. I myself should start leaving an edited change order with the customer to sign at night and leave for you upon your return.

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