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Breeching A Contract With A Builder

 
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Old 06-05-2015, 09:54 PM   #21
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Re: Breeching A Contract With A Builder


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Originally Posted by jpape1224 View Post
Thanks for that pcplumber, I did not take any money down (another thing I never like to do) and you are probably right that its not worth there time to pursue it. I contacted the builder and told him that I could not complete the job and that I was very sorry for the mistake. His next move was to tell me how much I was screwing up there schedule and he'll have to take legal action if I do not complete it. So with that, I made my decision that they were not the type of people I'd like to work with
He's blowing smoke up your skirt. He had no schedule, so he's threatening a suit that has no merit.
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Old 06-05-2015, 11:13 PM   #22
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Re: Breeching A Contract With A Builder


What do you mean that it was a "spoken agreement", and also that you signed a contract? What exactly is your commitment - scope of work - in the written contract?
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Old 06-06-2015, 12:06 AM   #23
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Re: Breeching A Contract With A Builder


What the hell is in this "contract" that you signed, if there's no start date, no completion date, and no scope of work. Holy FUUK me sideways.

How long will it take you to do the job? If it takes 1 week, and you get paid $2,550, and that's only labor, well, s#!t-on-a-shingle, I've worked for less before.


And don't do that again.




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Old 06-06-2015, 12:27 AM   #24
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Re: Breeching A Contract With A Builder


I think the op is asking the wrong question. You should be asking how to get the job done in five days.

I would give myself one day to hang doors, one day for columns a day for trimming windows and doors and a day for case. Day leftover for whatever remains.

Is it paint grade? If so, the painter is there to clean up your speed.
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Old 06-06-2015, 12:30 AM   #25
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Re: Breeching A Contract With A Builder


Also,

Base and case is base and case. The columns and the mantle are a CHANGE ORDER. Players start low and hit em hard on the changes.
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Old 06-06-2015, 12:32 AM   #26
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Re: Breeching A Contract With A Builder


Lastly, 2500 a week is 120k per year. Figure out and make more than most attorneys and some doctors.
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Old 06-06-2015, 12:36 AM   #27
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Re: Breeching A Contract With A Builder


I'm not sure how much I would be apologizing to the builder. He clearly knew he was taking you for a ride, and if you have the original plans you bid on, he has no leg to stand on in court.
Tell him you want the money that it's worth, or he can find someone else.
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Old 06-06-2015, 07:21 AM   #28
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Re: Breeching A Contract With A Builder


HERES WHAT YOU SAY TO THE BUILDER. I am new, I didn't bother to learn estimating, writing contracts or dealing with customers. I will likely end up bankrupt in the next two years from this, I'm sorry. I am a "CONTRACT"or though.
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Old 06-06-2015, 07:33 AM   #29
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Re: Breeching A Contract With A Builder


If you had a set of plans in advance, and you can read those plans, you would have a pretty good grasp of how many doors and how many lineal feet of at least base would be involved, plus get a great idea of casing the doors by the door count.

Am I missing something here? If I offered a trim carpenter a chance to bid my work, I insist on an onsite meeting first, but assuming I sent plans, I would still talk the scope of the job over and not commit without agreeing on the scope and details.

If you can read plans, you are responsible, if you can't, you should not be bidding for builders and GC's, stick with home owners.

FWIW, I would let you out of the contract gladly, because I would not want a trim guy on my job who blames me for not making money because there would be a 100% opportunity the work would not be his best. I also would not hire a trim guy that I had not personally inspected his work. Talk is cheap and trim is what everyone sees, not how well I have the structure framed.
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Old 06-06-2015, 08:12 AM   #30
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Re: Breeching A Contract With A Builder


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Originally Posted by ScipioAfricanus View Post
Damn guys, he has been in business for ten years, he is bound to make a mistake now and then as we all are. I know I have made mistakes.

Andy.
Andy, sorry my friend, I have to disagree with you... Yes we all make mistakes, nobody is perfect, but this is not a mistake this is a major f'up even for someone who is wet behind his ears...

Giving a price without looking at the job (any job) especially to trim out a house, there is so much to take into consideration, just the windows alone you have to see if you have extension jambs, is this a picture frame or its stool and apron, etc. On top of that do you have to return and do shoe molding, install door handles, is there pulldown stairs, etc
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Old 06-06-2015, 08:46 AM   #31
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Re: Breeching A Contract With A Builder


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....
FWIW, I would let you out of the contract gladly, because I would not want a trim guy on my job who blames me for not making money because there would be a 100% opportunity the work would not be his best. .....
Agreed. Obviously that builder doesn't think about it the way you do.

One option the O.P. has is to give the builder a 4-day, $2550 trim carpentry job, including a case of caulk for the painters. Maybe that's exactly what the builder wants.
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Old 06-06-2015, 08:54 AM   #32
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Re: Breeching A Contract With A Builder


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Old 06-06-2015, 09:18 AM   #33
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Re: Breeching A Contract With A Builder


Two options...1 - walk away and never have a chance with this builder again and expect the word to get around. 2- stick to your word and eat your shorts knowing experience and success is costly and become his rock star and expect word to get around that you can deliver.

Either way how you treat this is like a criminal record for your credentials, it will follow you around
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Old 06-06-2015, 09:29 AM   #34
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Re: Breeching A Contract With A Builder


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Two options.... 2- stick to your word and eat your shorts knowing experience and success is costly and become his rock star and ....
I understand what you're saying, but I doubt that there's any such upside in this for the O.P. That builder is looking for a crack whore, not a rock star.
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Old 06-06-2015, 09:46 AM   #35
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Re: Breeching A Contract With A Builder


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I understand what you're saying, but I doubt that there's any such upside in this for the O.P. That builder is looking for a crack whore, not a rock star.
But there IS an upside. Builders that want crack whores associate with other builders wanting crack whores.

Builders that want rock stars associate with with other builders wanting rock stars.



And never the twain shall meet.
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Old 06-06-2015, 10:08 AM   #36
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Re: Breeching A Contract With A Builder


How long does the OP think it will take? Two weeks, three weeks? Is it just not making the timeline? Or is it that he knows he won't make any money.

If it is the time line the way around that is work a ton of hours and get it done. A week or two of 15 or 16 hour days never killed anyone. Just nut up and get it done. If the GC knows you are doing everything you can, he will most likely be fine.

Get this one done and learn from it. Believe me, you will have lots of other opportunities to lose money. Use this lesson to lessen that chance.

And yep, this was about as dumb as it gets.
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Old 06-06-2015, 10:15 AM   #37
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Re: Breeching A Contract With A Builder


Just get the damn job done!!......learn from your mistakes and carry on.
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Old 06-06-2015, 10:15 AM   #38
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Re: Breeching A Contract With A Builder


I had to read what the OP has said on this a couple of times to get the gist of it. It sounds like a verbal agreement as to the start and end dates, but, the agreement to do the job for X amount of money was written.

For one, it seems to me that if this was a responsible GC, he would have come back and said: "Are you sure you can do it for this price ?" That because most GC don't want this kind of problem to come up and screw up the project. Since the GC didn't question anything, it tells me he is more of the "bottom feeder" type. Also, anyone that quickly brings up litigation tends to be a jerk anyway. I would also suspect that this GC deals with other "bottom feeders" and this is just how he does business............personally, I would stay way clear of this guy.

The written agreement will probably hold up, like in small claims court. But it doesn't sound well written to begin with. The cost for an attorney to come back at the GC and say: look, this is an invalid contract according to state and local laws for these reasons (listing them) would far outweigh the amount of money either lost or gained as it is.

With more business knowledge and experience, the OP could possibly have changed ordered up this situation to the point of the GC saying: "Get lost!, I'll find some other newbie who is desperate for work (and willing to lose money)"

This is a big learning lesson of business and trade work 101....don't assume anything....get everything spelled out clearly....if in doubt, see it for yourself......have a solid contract that protects your butt if you or the other guy forgot anything or didn't make it clear.

One more thing.....even with my experience and knowledge of business and legal stuff for over 40 years.....I still, on occasion, screw up.....but I don't post it here on CT......why be a glutton for punishment
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Old 06-06-2015, 11:10 AM   #39
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Re: Breeching A Contract With A Builder


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To clarify, there was no official start date and no completion date. It was a spoken agreement. For that reason it would probably be the safest move to go back to work until it gets done, even if it takes me a month, and hope that the builder in fact pays me and is not impossible to work with at this point. That being said, I felt like it would the responsible thing to let the builder know now that I will not be able to be anywhere close to the timeline they’d like to meet so they can find a different contractor who can.
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Old 06-06-2015, 12:18 PM   #40
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Re: Breeching A Contract With A Builder


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I had to read what the OP has said on this a couple of times to get the gist of it. It sounds like a verbal agreement as to the start and end dates, but, the agreement to do the job for X amount of money was written.

For one, it seems to me that if this was a responsible GC, he would have come back and said: "Are you sure you can do it for this price ?" That because most GC don't want this kind of problem to come up and screw up the project. Since the GC didn't question anything, it tells me he is more of the "bottom feeder" type. Also, anyone that quickly brings up litigation tends to be a jerk anyway. I would also suspect that this GC deals with other "bottom feeders" and this is just how he does business............personally, I would stay way clear of this guy.

The written agreement will probably hold up, like in small claims court. But it doesn't sound well written to begin with. The cost for an attorney to come back at the GC and say: look, this is an invalid contract according to state and local laws for these reasons (listing them) would far outweigh the amount of money either lost or gained as it is.

With more business knowledge and experience, the OP could possibly have changed ordered up this situation to the point of the GC saying: "Get lost!, I'll find some other newbie who is desperate for work (and willing to lose money)"

This is a big learning lesson of business and trade work 101....don't assume anything....get everything spelled out clearly....if in doubt, see it for yourself......have a solid contract that protects your butt if you or the other guy forgot anything or didn't make it clear.

One more thing.....even with my experience and knowledge of business and legal stuff for over 40 years.....I still, on occasion, screw up.....but I don't post it here on CT......why be a glutton for punishment
I couldn't agree with you more, especially the glutton for punishment part I assumed even with a lot of the negative feedback, I would get some good information from other people who want to give some constructive advice and not just throw s#@% at others they do not know. And yes the written portion is for the work required, the timeline was said to me in person, not in writing.

A part of me would consider “nutting up” and finishing the job. However it's not the thought of losing some money, it's the fact that the GC showed his teeth so quickly only leads me to believe that things would only get worse. Grinding it out by myself for the next 3 weeks to a month for a GC that will never use me again, nor would he recommend to the other bottom-feeding builders in my area because I took too long does not seem like a smart move at all.

Also, I do know how to read plans. My estimate for doors, casings and base were not off, although I did make it a little less than I would charge per foot than I generally charge for remodel. Having floors being 3/4" out of level in a 3' span was not planned for. Door casings that need to be scribed to said crooked walls was not included. The bid for "wrapping living room post's with MDF" was included, building craftsman style-multiple piece posts that tie into crown was not. Building a fireplace mantle was not included. Building ten feet of open handrail where the plans clearly said there was to be a closed rail was not. So yes, these items could be change ordered up to a point, but what do you think the builder would say to double my bid?

Again as much blame belongs to me as the builder for not going out and looking at the property before even giving the estimate and signing a bid. I know that this was more than just a little boo-boo, I need to do everything in my power to not make a mistake like this again, otherwise it will be time for me to find another profession....

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