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Tricks For Installing Seamless Gutters

 
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Old 08-21-2006, 09:12 PM   #1
 
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Tricks For Installing Seamless Gutters


Just working on a seamless gutter job the last few days, kinda being taught the ropes by a guy that i work with. Wondering if anyone has any time saving, or quality improving tips you want to share.
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Old 08-21-2006, 09:46 PM   #2
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Re: Tricks For Installing Seamless Gutters


If you want a quality job dont use the premade corners. Miter the gutter.
Unless you consider quality 20 yrs for a material that should last 100
Oh ya, dont use screws that rusts on a material that does not.

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Old 08-22-2006, 07:53 AM   #3
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Re: Tricks For Installing Seamless Gutters


Red, while I do agree that the aluminum shoudl be able to last 100 years, I don't think mitering the corners has anything to do with it. All corners in aluminum gutter are dependant upon sealant and there are no selants that I know of which will last 100 years. Even if you miter the corner you still have to seal it.

I personally think the problem is people go cheap on sealant at the corners and outlets, and IMO always use an outlet. I have no problem using half a tube at each area to be caulked. I laugh when I go for a repair and see that who ever installed the gutter treated caulk like gold, using as little as possible.

The aluminum material will last 100 years, but the gutter won't IMO... Around here 20 years is the max, and the gutters will need maintenance a few times after 10 years due to sealants.
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Old 08-22-2006, 08:44 AM   #4
 
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Re: Tricks For Installing Seamless Gutters


We were using strip miters, rivets and enough caulk, sure seems to me like it looked good, and was pretty watertight. What do you mean when you say you miter the corner?
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Old 08-22-2006, 08:56 AM   #5
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Re: Tricks For Installing Seamless Gutters


At a corner instead of installing the pre-fab corner piece, usually called an inside and outside miter, instead the gutter installer will cut the ends of the corner at 45 degrees and butt the pieces together. Then usually there is a very small corner piece, only a few inches wide, used to terminate the gutter.

Personally I don't see a difference between the two methods other than more time spent with the miter method.
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Old 08-22-2006, 04:20 PM   #6
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Re: Tricks For Installing Seamless Gutters


I agree with red... we only miter our corners. Much stronger, does not fade to different colors, and looks much nicer. I don't know how many times we are called to fix leaking corners that have been installed only several years prior. Box miters are the worst. Box and strip miters are also made of lower guage aluminum than gutter coil.

Some guys around our area use white corners on all color jobs and then spray paint it after it is up on the house. Within a year you can really see where they sprayed. (I will try to post some pics)

I agree with Grumpy on using good sealant on the corners. That is half the battle.
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Old 08-22-2006, 06:03 PM   #7
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Re: Tricks For Installing Seamless Gutters


My mention of mitering the corner involves a finer method of installation.
It involves no seperate piece ( aka ) strip miter. the gutter pieces are precisely cut and joined together with rivets. if done well, you only see 3 or 4 rivets on each corner. Looks like crown moulding.
Ok maybe not a 100 yrs. But a lot longer then 20. Not to mention the color fading uniformly.
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Old 08-23-2006, 10:16 AM   #8
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Re: Tricks For Installing Seamless Gutters


Can you send a pic? I think I understand what you are saying, which is what we do with copper gutter due to the high cost of miter corners. However we solder all copper.

I see no need on aluminum however. Toss on the prefab corners and be done with it.
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Old 11-17-2006, 10:04 PM   #9
 
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Re: Tricks For Installing Seamless Gutters


In my personal opinion mitered corners are not as good as strip-miter corners. Miter corners are just butt joints with caulking just over the seam, when the gutter expands and contracts it will separate the caulking and cause a leak, I have even see the rivets pull out of the corner because of the movement. On our strip miters we run a bead of caulk on the miter before we install the miter, this bonds the miter to the guttering and then use screw to attach everything. We have taken miters apart years later and it actually pulls the paint off the gutter.

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Old 11-18-2006, 12:02 AM   #10
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Re: Tricks For Installing Seamless Gutters


And because the joints on aluminum will all leak sooner or later, be sure to run the joint laps with the flow of water.
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Old 11-18-2006, 10:03 AM   #11
 
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Re: Tricks For Installing Seamless Gutters


Quote:
Originally Posted by 4319hendrie View Post
Just working on a seamless gutter job the last few days, kinda being taught the ropes by a guy that i work with. Wondering if anyone has any time saving, or quality improving tips you want to share.

If at all possible, avoid using box or strip miters. Use plenty of good quality sealant on all outlets, endcaps, and miters. The most expensive sealant does not always equal best so, you may have to experiment a bit till you find the right product. Also, use a hidden type hanger for your installs.
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Old 11-18-2006, 12:15 PM   #12
 
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Re: Tricks For Installing Seamless Gutters


Some times you have no choice, But to do miters. Sometimes your big bay windows will have gutters and more times than not these are a 22 1/2 deg angle. That's when like Grumpy said you use these narrow miter caps. Made just for bays!
I dont like doing gutters (Don't know a sider that does) but when I do I dont wast time on a house always use pre fab corners! They make for extra hands to on long runs!LOL
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Old 11-18-2006, 03:19 PM   #13
 
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Re: Tricks For Installing Seamless Gutters


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Bridgewater View Post
Some times you have no choice, But to do miters. Sometimes your big bay windows will have gutters and more times than not these are a 22 1/2 deg angle.
My guys have always cut bay miters and don't find it any different than any other miter. Believe me, these guys spent quite a bit of time perfecting their miter patterns and dare anyone to touch them
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Old 11-21-2006, 10:26 PM   #14
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Re: Tricks For Installing Seamless Gutters


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrsamman View Post
In my personal opinion mitered corners are not as good as strip-miter corners. Miter corners are just butt joints with caulking just over the seam, when the gutter expands and contracts it will separate the caulking and cause a leak, I have even see the rivets pull out of the corner because of the movement. On our strip miters we run a bead of caulk on the miter before we install the miter, this bonds the miter to the guttering and then use screw to attach everything. We have taken miters apart years later and it actually pulls the paint off the gutter.

Scott
I can not speak for everyone, but we overlap the miters and pop rivot together.

I don't understand how the caulk would seperate with a mitered corner and not a strip-miter. It is clear you are using a quality sealant when you say it pulls the paint off the gutter. But the gutter will expand just the same as a mitered corner or as strip. And with expansion and contraction of two pieces into a weaker piece will cause more chances for leakage, especially if screws are used in fastening the strip-miter. Screws will turn back out much easier than pop rivots.

This year we had to tear off gutter my Father installed over 20 years ago and the corners looked great with no leaking. We had to take a knife to cut the sealant in order to get the corners apart. All pop rivots were in place except for 2 in the back-side of the gutter on a 90' piece.

We were changing the gutter because the homeowner was changing colors and decided to put all new soffit, fascia, and gutter, as well as a roof.

BTW, it is nice to see more gutter contractors on here! It is good to hear and give different opinions. It keeps everyone on their toes and thinking.

BRNDIVY, where in Ohio are you from? We are in a small town called Ottawa in the Northwest.
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Old 11-22-2006, 09:07 AM   #15
 
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Re: Tricks For Installing Seamless Gutters


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BRNDIVY, where in Ohio are you from? We are in a small town called Ottawa in the Northwest.
I'm in Fairfield. It's just about 20 minutes north of Cincinnati...Not too far from ya.
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Old 11-22-2006, 11:05 PM   #16
 
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Re: Tricks For Installing Seamless Gutters


Well There better than me! LOL. Look! I'm not doing copper on a million dollor house.
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Old 11-27-2006, 07:23 PM   #17
 
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Re: Tricks For Installing Seamless Gutters


When Mitering For A Bay Window (135 Deg Outside Corner ) Should I Use A Piece Of Alum. On The Gutter Floor As Reinforcement? Should The Pop Rivets Be On The Back Side Or On The Bottom?
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Old 11-27-2006, 07:52 PM   #18
 
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Re: Tricks For Installing Seamless Gutters


Most my bays are around 22 1/2 deg LOL
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Old 11-29-2006, 08:43 PM   #19
 
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Re: Tricks For Installing Seamless Gutters


Miters Are Cat At 221/2 Deg, So Overall Angle Is 135 Deg. So How Is It Done? How Is It Assembled?
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Old 01-27-2008, 03:27 AM   #20
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Re: Tricks For Installing Seamless Gutters


Quick question for you veteran seamless gutter installers, I have just purchased 50% of a small gutter company and we were just running a 5K machine and my partner has always used strip miters on the corners, since joining the company I have just purchased a Step Face Fascia Machine and there is no strio miters for this profile and my partner has been using a template that we received from JB Gutterman and just tracing and cuttin the tabs with snips, well heres my question is there a miter saw that you guys could recommend to cut perfect 45's in fascia gutter or do you recommend using a hacksaw then cutting and bending the tabs into em. The reason I ask is I would like to get away from the strip miters with the 5K as well, the custom corner just looks better. But I dont like all the messing around to get the corners to line up and a chop saw with perfect 45's would just seem to be the best way to go ad a miter box would have to be pretty big to cut step face fascia gutter. I'm gonna try and build a miter box to use with a hacksaw and let ya's know how that goes but a saw just seems like a better and quiker way to go.
PS I bought a 14 inch chop saw and I couldnt get all the way through the step face gutter on a 45 so I'm guessing I need at least a 15inch saw anyone got one they can recommend besides the Hitachi. Or are willing to sell at a decent price.

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Last edited by Jameskennedy; 01-27-2008 at 03:29 AM.
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