Torch Down Modified "Hater"? - Roofing - Contractor Talk

Torch Down Modified "Hater"?

 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 05-01-2010, 03:51 PM   #1
Registered User
 
vandiesel99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 11
Rewards Points: 10

Torch Down Modified "Hater"?


"FLAT ROOFING Torch Roofing Caution" on youtube(Haven't posted enough to post URL apparently)

This guy seems to make his biggest selling point the fact that he doesn't use torch down products. There are several videos incredibly overemphasizing the fact the torches can set stuff on fire. In episode #3 he proceeds to tell about how he set a house on fire with one back when he was younger. Seems to me that emphasizing the pros of your niche would be more productive than trying to beat up another roofing system.
vandiesel99 is offline  

Warning: The topics covered on this site include activities in which there exists the potential for serious injury or death. ContractorTalk.com DOES NOT guarantee the accuracy or completeness of any information contained on this site. Always use proper safety precaution and reference reliable outside sources before attempting any construction or remodeling task!

   

Advertisement

 

Old 05-01-2010, 10:31 PM   #2
Commercial Roofing
 
AaronB.'s Avatar
 
Trade: Roofing Contractor
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Illinois IL
Posts: 1,220
Rewards Points: 500

Re: Torch Down Modified "Hater"?


Telling anyone that you're too stupid to use the professional products seems like the wrong thing to do.

Advertisement


Last edited by AaronB.; 05-03-2010 at 08:44 AM.
AaronB. is offline  
Old 05-01-2010, 10:50 PM   #3
Pro
 
dougger222's Avatar
 
Trade: Roofing Contractor
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Stillwater Minnesota
Posts: 1,678
Rewards Points: 1,116

Re: Torch Down Modified "Hater"?


Didn't watch the video and to be honest have better things to do...

If he in fact burnt a house down with torch down he should just get a job at McDonalds or Wallmart. That way he can burn burgers and sell stuff made in China and never have to worry about burning another house down.

As far as torch down is concerned. Call me old fashion call me what you will. I only use torch down on flat roofs. Don't do a lot but have never had a call back on a flat roof. My father can say the same thing which goes back to the 80's. He's done a fair amount of torch down roofs.
dougger222 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 05-01-2010, 10:54 PM   #4
The Flooring Guy
 
cork-guy's Avatar
 
Trade: Flooring
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Chicagoland Area
Posts: 437
Rewards Points: 250

Re: Torch Down Modified "Hater"?


Quote:
Originally Posted by dougger222 View Post
If he in fact burnt a house down with torch down he should just get a job at McDonalds or Wallmart. That way he can burn burgers and sell stuff made in China and never have to worry about burning another house down.
How is he still in business is the real question.
__________________
Cork Flooring - Educational information on cork flooring for consumers
Cork Flooring Twitter | Cork Flooring Facebook | Ventless Fireplace
cork-guy is offline  
Old 05-02-2010, 11:00 AM   #5
Registered User
 
tumpline's Avatar
 
Trade: roofing
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Mississauga,Ont
Posts: 16
Rewards Points: 10

Re: Torch Down Modified "Hater"?


I know of a certain company who talks crap about torch down modified systems and gives a big speech that they use to use them but realized the products didnt hold up and so on and how they now only use single ply.

Anyone who has been around this area long enough know that the real reason they do not use modifieds anymore is because they didnt have their crews take the proper training on how to properly install a torchdown modified system,which resulted in several failures and fire related damage. Which lead to an insurance issue for them.

I dont know of any roofing membrane/system out there that is the best fit in all situations.
tumpline is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to tumpline For This Useful Post:
seeyou (05-02-2010)
Old 05-02-2010, 12:06 PM   #6
Dan
 
ApgarNJ's Avatar
 
Trade: Remodeling Contractor
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Stockton, NJ
Posts: 4,822
Rewards Points: 2,000

Re: Torch Down Modified "Hater"?


isn't EPDM, the heavier grade a faster to put down product and no flame involved? i'm not here to bash torch down. as most of my work is residential and I see very few torchdown flat roofs. most of it is rolled roofing which I can't stand either. not many guys around me really know how to do a properly installed EPDM roof. they don't need to be coated either.
ApgarNJ is offline  
Old 05-02-2010, 01:00 PM   #7
copper magnet
 
seeyou's Avatar
 
Trade: custom metal fabrication
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Lexington,KY
Posts: 806
Rewards Points: 512

Re: Torch Down Modified "Hater"?


Quote:
Originally Posted by ApgarNJ View Post
isn't EPDM, the heavier grade a faster to put down product and no flame involved? i'm not here to bash torch down. as most of my work is residential and I see very few torchdown flat roofs. most of it is rolled roofing which I can't stand either. not many guys around me really know how to do a properly installed EPDM roof. they don't need to be coated either.
The speed depends a lot on the actual roof and the applicators. I'm not a big fan of modified bitumen (torch down), but that doesn't mean it doesn't have it's applications. There are also modified systems out now that install with a heat welder rather than an open flame.

The devil is in the details of any flat roof system. A poorly detailed roof with a bunch of penetrations is about as likely to leak with modified as it is a membrane.

And there are coatings to prolong/extend the life of EPDM as well as modified. I'm not sure about coatings for TPO and PVC.
seeyou is offline  
Old 05-02-2010, 10:41 PM   #8
Pro
 
dougger222's Avatar
 
Trade: Roofing Contractor
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Stillwater Minnesota
Posts: 1,678
Rewards Points: 1,116

Re: Torch Down Modified "Hater"?


Roofing liability insurance with coverage for torch down roofing is not cheap. More than likely this is one big reason why companies are getting away from the torch.

On an episode of Homes on Holmes Mike tore off a newer flat roof on a large garage and his roofing crew put down torch down. Seen torch on the show on other episodes as well.

Over on the coffeshop a roofer in New Zealand(sp?) does a lot of torch down. His work is amazing! Been doing it a few years...
dougger222 is offline  
Old 05-03-2010, 12:43 PM   #9
Registered User
 
Grumpy's Avatar
 
Trade: Roofing and Gutter Specialist
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Chicago
Posts: 8,573
Rewards Points: 2,000

Re: Torch Down Modified "Hater"?


I tell customers somethign to the affect of this... We've been doing torch down roofing for years. Infact the first torch down rof I did was back in 2001. I haven't burned down a building ever, but still none the less we are literally playing with fire. There have been numerous instances of roofers burning down buildings. INfact that recent historical church that burnt down was a direct result of the roofers. Torch applied modified bitumen was our primary roof covering but now we only install it on request. It's a good roofing system, but now I prefer single ply. Single ply requires less steps to install, has the same or better warranties and is installed without fire. I know when we remove the torch from the equation our chances of burning down the building decrease dramatically. Which would you prefer?"


I don't care if you have a fire extinguisher on the roof, one hour fire watch, etc... Even the best roofers have caused some major damage from the torch. Life is a numbers game. The more torch roofs you install, the closer you are to burning one down. It's just a matter of time. And anyone who tells me they have been doing it for 20 years and have never burned down a building... All I can say it "Yet".
__________________
-Grumpy
Chicago Gutters Chicago Roofing
Grumpy is offline  
Old 05-03-2010, 05:12 PM   #10
Dan
 
ApgarNJ's Avatar
 
Trade: Remodeling Contractor
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Stockton, NJ
Posts: 4,822
Rewards Points: 2,000

Re: Torch Down Modified "Hater"?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Grumpy View Post
I tell customers somethign to the affect of this... We've been doing torch down roofing for years. Infact the first torch down rof I did was back in 2001. I haven't burned down a building ever, but still none the less we are literally playing with fire. There have been numerous instances of roofers burning down buildings. INfact that recent historical church that burnt down was a direct result of the roofers. Torch applied modified bitumen was our primary roof covering but now we only install it on request. It's a good roofing system, but now I prefer single ply. Single ply requires less steps to install, has the same or better warranties and is installed without fire. I know when we remove the torch from the equation our chances of burning down the building decrease dramatically. Which would you prefer?"


I don't care if you have a fire extinguisher on the roof, one hour fire watch, etc... Even the best roofers have caused some major damage from the torch. Life is a numbers game. The more torch roofs you install, the closer you are to burning one down. It's just a matter of time. And anyone who tells me they have been doing it for 20 years and have never burned down a building... All I can say it "Yet".
No EPDM out your way for flat roofs?

the edge work takes extra time but the flat open areas really go down fast. just roll it with a heavy roller and minimal if any bubbles.
i've always had great success with them, and no chance of burning down a building.
ApgarNJ is offline  
Old 05-04-2010, 12:55 PM   #11
Registered User
 
Grumpy's Avatar
 
Trade: Roofing and Gutter Specialist
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Chicago
Posts: 8,573
Rewards Points: 2,000

Re: Torch Down Modified "Hater"?


I prefer thermoplastics over thermosets. I've been installing TPO as our primary low slope covering for about 2-3 years now. I like the heat welded seams vs the glued/adhesive seams. In my realm of operations, residential, multi-family and small commercial... Modified is king. Only with recent code changes has single ply gained any market share on the resi, multi & small commercial. On commercial new construction and large commercial single ply has been king for many years, but we don't get much into that.
__________________
-Grumpy
Chicago Gutters Chicago Roofing
Grumpy is offline  
Old 05-09-2010, 01:48 PM   #12
Roofing Sage
 
2ndGen's Avatar
 
Trade: Thoroughbred Roofer
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 3,409
Rewards Points: 2,048

Re: Torch Down Modified "Hater"?


Haha!

Great!

Keep that F'n torch off of my roof!



You'll never have a house burned by a cold-applied system.

__________________
"I've been up on the roof. I know what those guys go through.
My whole life has been about making that profession respectable
."
Ken Hendricks

Last edited by 2ndGen; 05-09-2010 at 01:55 PM.
2ndGen is offline  
Old 05-09-2010, 02:02 PM   #13
Commercial Roofing
 
AaronB.'s Avatar
 
Trade: Roofing Contractor
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Illinois IL
Posts: 1,220
Rewards Points: 500

Re: Torch Down Modified "Hater"?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Grumpy View Post
I tell customers somethign to the affect of this... We've been doing torch down roofing for years. Infact the first torch down rof I did was back in 2001. I haven't burned down a building ever, but still none the less we are literally playing with fire. There have been numerous instances of roofers burning down buildings. INfact that recent historical church that burnt down was a direct result of the roofers. Torch applied modified bitumen was our primary roof covering but now we only install it on request. It's a good roofing system, but now I prefer single ply. Single ply requires less steps to install, has the same or better warranties and is installed without fire. I know when we remove the torch from the equation our chances of burning down the building decrease dramatically. Which would you prefer?"


I don't care if you have a fire extinguisher on the roof, one hour fire watch, etc... Even the best roofers have caused some major damage from the torch. Life is a numbers game. The more torch roofs you install, the closer you are to burning one down. It's just a matter of time. And anyone who tells me they have been doing it for 20 years and have never burned down a building... All I can say it "Yet".
Well, since you use fire in the kitchen, and kitchen fires do happen, then since you haven't burned your house down cooking, all you could logically reason by way of your justification is YET.

You should stop cooking and/or grilling immediately in order to avoid this.
AaronB. is offline  
Old 05-09-2010, 02:05 PM   #14
Roofing Sage
 
2ndGen's Avatar
 
Trade: Thoroughbred Roofer
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 3,409
Rewards Points: 2,048

Re: Torch Down Modified "Hater"?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Grumpy View Post
I tell customers somethign to the affect of this... We've been doing torch down roofing for years. Infact the first torch down rof I did was back in 2001. I haven't burned down a building ever, but still none the less we are literally playing with fire. There have been numerous instances of roofers burning down buildings. INfact that recent historical church that burnt down was a direct result of the roofers. Torch applied modified bitumen was our primary roof covering but now we only install it on request. It's a good roofing system, but now I prefer single ply. Single ply requires less steps to install, has the same or better warranties and is installed without fire. I know when we remove the torch from the equation our chances of burning down the building decrease dramatically. Which would you prefer?"


I don't care if you have a fire extinguisher on the roof, one hour fire watch, etc... Even the best roofers have caused some major damage from the torch. Life is a numbers game. The more torch roofs you install, the closer you are to burning one down. It's just a matter of time. And anyone who tells me they have been doing it for 20 years and have never burned down a building... All I can say it "Yet".
All that, + cold applied is wayyyyyy faster to install.

Safer, more profitable, easier to train crew, etcetera...

__________________
"I've been up on the roof. I know what those guys go through.
My whole life has been about making that profession respectable
."
Ken Hendricks
2ndGen is offline  
Old 05-09-2010, 02:07 PM   #15
Roofing Sage
 
2ndGen's Avatar
 
Trade: Thoroughbred Roofer
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 3,409
Rewards Points: 2,048

Re: Torch Down Modified "Hater"?


Quote:
Originally Posted by AaronB. View Post
Well, since you use fire in the kitchen, and kitchen fires do happen, then since you haven't burned your house down cooking, all you could logically reason by way of your justification is YET.

You should stop cooking and/or grilling immediately in order to avoid this.
I doubt that he'd be cooking off of the floor or walls!

Fire + Roof = more potential for Roof Fire.

"No" Fire+ Roof = no possibility for Roof Fire.

(Watch for new thread...)
__________________
"I've been up on the roof. I know what those guys go through.
My whole life has been about making that profession respectable
."
Ken Hendricks

Last edited by 2ndGen; 05-09-2010 at 02:10 PM.
2ndGen is offline  
Old 05-09-2010, 02:17 PM   #16
Roofing Sage
 
2ndGen's Avatar
 
Trade: Thoroughbred Roofer
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 3,409
Rewards Points: 2,048

Re: Torch Down Modified "Hater"?


So funny...I was driving to inspect a roof on a school that we were supervising and managing.

Heard on the radio how traffic was being diverted because of a roof fire!

It was my route that was diverted.

Showed my City Inspector's I.D. to the cops and they let me through.

Turns out that it was the roof next to our school that was on fire.
Some Jacklegs were torching the roof on a Sunday morning at 7:30am to avoid
having to deal with getting a permit (especially since they weren't licensed).

I got great pictures of it and some video and turned it into the division's manager.
We had a great laugh and he said "that's why we torch!"

The smoke went up for miles into the sky.

__________________
"I've been up on the roof. I know what those guys go through.
My whole life has been about making that profession respectable
."
Ken Hendricks
2ndGen is offline  
Old 05-09-2010, 02:21 PM   #17
Commercial Roofing
 
AaronB.'s Avatar
 
Trade: Roofing Contractor
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Illinois IL
Posts: 1,220
Rewards Points: 500

Re: Torch Down Modified "Hater"?


Solderers and plumbers start roof fires, too. It gets classified as open flame roof fires.

Does not matter if you cook on the floors or walls... kitchen fires happen, and the risk is there, so by the very same logic, he should stop eating or stop cooking to eliminate the risk.
AaronB. is offline  
Old 05-09-2010, 02:25 PM   #18
Commercial Roofing
 
AaronB.'s Avatar
 
Trade: Roofing Contractor
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Illinois IL
Posts: 1,220
Rewards Points: 500

Re: Torch Down Modified "Hater"?


P.S. you can start a fire being careless with a heat gun as well. You can start a fire with no heat aside from a spark on a roof as well. Therefore, you should not have combustible liquids and metal tools on the same roof, nor heat guns.

It hasn't happened to him.... YET.
AaronB. is offline  
Old 05-09-2010, 02:26 PM   #19
Commercial Roofing
 
AaronB.'s Avatar
 
Trade: Roofing Contractor
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Illinois IL
Posts: 1,220
Rewards Points: 500

Re: Torch Down Modified "Hater"?


It all comes down to using scare tactics to sell your own systems. I'm glad that I don't have to resort to such tactics.
AaronB. is offline  
Old 05-09-2010, 02:31 PM   #20
Roofing Sage
 
2ndGen's Avatar
 
Trade: Thoroughbred Roofer
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 3,409
Rewards Points: 2,048

Re: Torch Down Modified "Hater"?


Only you can prevent roof fires!


Advertisement

__________________
"I've been up on the roof. I know what those guys go through.
My whole life has been about making that profession respectable
."
Ken Hendricks
2ndGen is offline  


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
torch down nails pulling out seattlealex Roofing 22 09-01-2010 09:22 AM
Need help identifying torch piece swp4lfe Plumbing 4 02-13-2010 06:48 PM
Favorite torch down material roof-lover Roofing 26 02-25-2009 10:08 AM
Torch Down Roofing steveoboist Roofing 14 09-05-2008 11:26 PM
Modified Torch Down Mark Roofing 7 04-23-2004 09:32 AM

Join Now... It's Fast and FREE!

I am a professional contractor
I am a DIY Homeowner
Drywall Talk is for
PROFESSIONAL CONTRACTORS ONLY!

At DrywallTalk.com we cater exlusivly to professional contractors who make their living as a contractor. Knowing that many homeowners and DIYers are looking for a community to call home, we've created www.DIYChatroom.com DIY Chatroom is full of helpful advices and perfect for DIY homeowners.

Redirecing in 10 seconds
No Thanks
terms of service

Already Have an Account?