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Sorry To Bring This Back Up "Horizon"

 
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Old 11-11-2008, 04:34 PM   #1
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Sorry To Bring This Back Up "Horizon"


11 years ago I put Blue Horizon 25 yrs on the house I built for myself . 45 sqs 9/12 pitch.
After reading about the lawsuit against Certainteed I really gave my roof a good inspection .
I have noticed a lot of granules in the gutters over the years but not sure it is an abnormal amount . I am only seeing minimal curling on a few shingles and only a few that aren't held down by the tar strip .Overall the roof looks in pretty good shape .
So my question is were all of these shingles defective ? Was it a regional problem . Was it only certain years . All things equal i.e proper venting , install , sun exposure are all of these Horizon shingles doomed to a shorter lifespan ? I looked at some of the pictures of terrible looking roofs only 6 yrs old and wonder if anyone has determined parameters regarding failure rates .
Thanks
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Old 11-11-2008, 04:38 PM   #2
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Re: Sorry To Bring This Back Up "Horizon"


The "Organic Core" ones were the major defective ones. If yours are a fiber-glass reinforcement core and they are not showing sign of alligator cracking up to this point, you should be okay.

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Old 11-11-2008, 07:47 PM   #3
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Re: Sorry To Bring This Back Up "Horizon"


There is a differnce between the horizons and new horizons. Literally the name of the new ones is new horizons. I guess the marketing department had the week off when they were named. Fiberglass are the new ones.
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Old 11-11-2008, 09:03 PM   #4
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Re: Sorry To Bring This Back Up "Horizon"


There are four shangles coined Horizon from Certainteed.

Horizon three tab organic
Classic Horizon three tab fiberglass
New Horizon organic/fiberglass
New Horizon fiberglass

If your shingles are starting to curl that means you have the first mentioned Horizon. Fiberglass shingles only curl if something under them is lifting them up. Organic shingles will curl from the sun. It seems that once they start curling and cracking it won't take long for the granuals to come off in large areas. The South side will be first to fail and the North may be good when the South side has totaly failed. Never got a home owner to think, "It's not all that bad, only half your roof is shot" is funny.

The only one of the four still produced is the last one.
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Old 11-11-2008, 09:41 PM   #5
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Re: Sorry To Bring This Back Up "Horizon"


Wasn't the major defect with those being that the asphalt "Applique" layer started to alligator and crack completely through the shingles? Not the premature curling as much, but the cracking problems?

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Old 11-11-2008, 10:04 PM   #6
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Re: Sorry To Bring This Back Up "Horizon"


Yep, it is sun blistering. Most of the older organic shingles will sun blister. The Horizons, new or old, are almost the last shingle I would sell, just ahead of the 3 tab GAF's.
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Old 11-12-2008, 07:43 AM   #7
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Re: Sorry To Bring This Back Up "Horizon"


I would pay an experienced roofer to inspect the roof for you,
I mean someone experienced in detecting failure signs.

I have horizon roofs as old as the early 90's still holding up,
and I have installed a few new horizon with out any problems as of yet.
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Old 11-12-2008, 11:25 AM   #8
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Re: Sorry To Bring This Back Up "Horizon"


I only did one Classic Horizon job, but it was in 1991 and it looks as good today as the day it was installed on a 12/12 cape cod, but we added continuous intake and exhaust ventilation to the home, so that may be the reason they faired so well as opposed to all of the other ones showing their defects.

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Old 11-12-2008, 04:15 PM   #9
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Re: Sorry To Bring This Back Up "Horizon"


This Summer I looked at a 50sq 8/12 12/12 with Weathered Wood Classic Horizons (fiberglass) put on in 1997. The shingles have massive granular loss on the South facing roofs only on the doubled up spots. It's the same problem as found on the New Horizons.

Last Fall did a 50sq 10/12 with green 1996 Classic Horizons that were in horrible condition. We put Landmark Premium Hunter Green on that one, doubled up the ridge with all black vents, turned out very nice. Adjuster totalled out that roof with five circled hail hits.

Ed, the old organic Horizons would curl, crack, and blister. These ones are the worse by far. You got curling corners consistant with organic shingles produced in the 90's. Cracking due to the double applique process and blisters on the organic mat due to sun exposure. These shingles do hold up to hail very well. Been on many roofs hit with golf ball sized hail that no damage was found on the thin spots on the shingles. The same can be said about the Sealdons.

We have two roofs to do yet this year with the old Horizons. Got the insurance companies to buy both roofs much to the joy of the home owners. They both called me to get bids on replacing the 19 and 17 year old roofs. Both are Weathered Woods.

Looked at another house the other day with Weathered Wood old Horizons to inspect the 20+ year old skylights and had to tell the home owner that the shingles were shot.

These shingles are going to be a thorn in Certainteeds side for years to come.
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Old 11-20-2008, 07:10 AM   #10
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Re: Sorry To Bring This Back Up "Horizon"


well in WI we have had new horizon shangles not seal down(the manuf knows about this) and huge parts of the roof sliding off. also spider cracks everywhere and the top granuals falling off. now i have a new horizon shingled roof i did 2 yrs ago and they still look great. the others were weathered wood (not that color makes a difference) i would say since they didnt seal down the wind was just getting under them and popping through the nails. made for any easy tear off though. lol then there was the cert 4 tab heathsteads....wow... junk, at least they stopped making them. them things curled in no time. well cert only gave the homeowner like $500 or less and the roof is only 7 yrs old (new hor) so far so good with mine though(crosses fingers)
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Old 11-20-2008, 07:38 AM   #11
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Re: Sorry To Bring This Back Up "Horizon"


When you have 'shingles' blowing or sliding off, no matter if the materials failed or not, you also had installment failure,
when materials fail, tabs of shingles can/will repeatedly lift, crack and blow off, and will sometimes rip across the fastener strip causing 'pieces' of the upper shingle portion to be damaged,
but when you are losing entire shingles your fasteners failed due to the workmanship of the installer.

I didn't like the hearthstead line much and was glad to see them go,
but I still have several dozen villas, condo's and homes with those on the roof that we installed in the early to mid 90's and have had very few problems with any of them and never had one replaced.
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Old 11-20-2008, 08:48 AM   #12
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Re: Sorry To Bring This Back Up "Horizon"


Certainteed changed the Hearthstead from organic to fiberglass for a couple years then dropped the line. The figerglass version will hold up better than the organic version. I never liked installed them. Certainteed said you could skip fasten the middle tabs alternating.

What I have noticed with the New Horizon is that the end 6 inches are were they don't tend to seal down as good as the middle of the shingle. I was at a motel a few years ago during a massive wind storm. I looked out the window at the building across the parking lot which was a three story 6/12 motel with New Horizons and couldn't believe how many shingles were blowing off. It was like a domino effect. It would have taken many men to remove the amount of shingles that the wind was blowing off. The wind was something like 60-70 mph.

I've done hundreds of roofs with New Horizons and have never had more than three shingles blow off one roof. Of course I have not sold one in over six years.

It's said that Certainteed changed the New Horizon line. Did a 25 square addition on a 70 square roof this Summer and the shingles sealed right away and seemed a lot hotter than the old New Horizons. The Prairie Wood is a very attractive shingle.
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Old 11-21-2008, 08:57 AM   #13
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Re: Sorry To Bring This Back Up "Horizon"


for the info . I was up on the roof last weekend replacing my roof boots . (Why lead boots aren't easily avalible in MD I do not know .Next time I will order them ) Everything appears to be OK . I am just worried that this is something that could happen over a season or 2 . I am hoping to get around 18 years outta this roof .
I have also been looking at alot of shingles on other houses , Horizons were extremely popular in my area (Southern Maryland ) back in the late 90's and from the ground I am not seeing anything like the pictures I have looked at on the net . I was doing some work on a 84 lumber salesman's house this week , he has new horizons on his house , and he said he hadn't heard anything about these failures in his store . I found that suprising .
Thanks again .
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Old 11-23-2008, 09:05 AM   #14
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Re: Sorry To Bring This Back Up "Horizon"


I wonder if the shingles came out of the Shakopee, MN plant. It could be the shingles in your area were made from another plant and were made differently.

If you have pvc or abs plumbing vents the two piece lead style vents will be a tough fit. I've seen it done several times but it's hard to tighten the top onto plastic without breaking. I install a plumbing vent that I've seen on roofs at 15 years were the rubber boot still looks new. They are over double what the plumbing vents cost at Menards or Home Depot. They have a baked on black finish.
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Old 11-23-2008, 09:07 AM   #15
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Re: Sorry To Bring This Back Up "Horizon"


First thing you need to do is STAY off of the Roof. That is the WORST offense to an ASPHALT Shingle!
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Old 07-27-2014, 09:57 AM   #16
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Re: Sorry To Bring This Back Up "Horizon"


I am looking to purchase 4 squares of CertainTeed New Horizon Harvest Brown (956A) shingles to repair a roof in the area.

If anyone knows where I can get these, please respond with info.
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Old 08-15-2014, 09:48 AM   #17
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Re: Sorry To Bring This Back Up "Horizon"


almost all the organic t-lock and 3-tabs made in the 90's at the shakopee plant had issues......here in bismarck, ND i can drive around any block and easily see a half dozen bad roofs
these shingles were manufactured for years and cteed knew it and kept making them without correcting the problem....my company installed that product on hundreds of re-roofs after the hail in 1993 i have completely divorced my company from certainteed.....we had to re-do hundreds of 1 and 2 year old roofs and cteed didn't wanna pay enuff to redo them......they still owe me money 15 years later......i am terribly dissapointed with them..........they suck not many people understand what was wrong with the manufacturing process that caused the shingles to blister

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