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Is It Okay To Leave The Old Felt On?

 
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Old 02-16-2009, 06:54 PM   #1
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Is It Okay To Leave The Old Felt On?


I got up on a roof that I'm having replaced today (wind damage Friday). I noticed that the roofers are leaving on the old felt, substantially. They assure me that it's normal, and I'm hard pressed to insist otherwise. Are there any problems associated with leaving the old felt on, save for the fact that the proposal said 'removal to the decking'?

I snapped this photo while they were on their lunch break:


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Old 02-16-2009, 07:05 PM   #2
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Re: Is It Okay To Leave The Old Felt On?


Aside from not being able to inspect what is underneath it, I don't really think there should be a problem. But I am not a roofer, so lets just wait until one gives something better than an educated guess.

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Old 02-16-2009, 07:10 PM   #3
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Re: Is It Okay To Leave The Old Felt On?


It should be removed. They should have inspected the sheathing, check to make sure it had no damage or rot and make sure the sheathing was nailed off properly.

That was just plain rushing and laziness


If nothing is wrong underneath the paper the roof will be fine. But if something is or was wrong it is covered up for another 25 years or until it leaks next year
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Old 02-16-2009, 07:15 PM   #4
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Re: Is It Okay To Leave The Old Felt On?


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Originally Posted by rbsremodeling View Post
I should be removed. They should have inspected the sheathing, check to make sure it had no damage or rot and make sure the sheathing nailed properly.
The roofer did actually replace a few sheets. I guess they could tell from walking on them. The foreman actually called me to tell me they found a couple on each building (I did see that with my own two eyes), but they throw in 2 or 3 sheets as a gimmie before they start charging. Pretty decent of them, I thought. That's what brought me there in the first place. I wanted to see what rotten roof sheathing looks like. Pretty much like plywood shaped mulch.
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Old 02-16-2009, 07:19 PM   #5
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Re: Is It Okay To Leave The Old Felt On?


I don't know much about roofing (other than it's up high), what you can see of the sheathing looks good, but I'd have to agree that they should probably remove it for inspection purposes. Now the reason I posted, are they using ice and water shield on the bottom, doesn't look like it.





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Old 02-16-2009, 07:20 PM   #6
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Re: Is It Okay To Leave The Old Felt On?


I agree with inspecting the sheathing. Just depends on how new it is. Most good roofers will see and notice bad rotted spots without removing even the shingles.

It won't hurt anything to leave it on. Alot of our roofs we just did a few years ago. We don't waste the time tearing all the paper off all the time.

They should take it off where the I&W is though. It won't adhere to the decking otherwise. Kind of defeats the purpose.
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Old 02-16-2009, 07:20 PM   #7
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Re: Is It Okay To Leave The Old Felt On?


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Originally Posted by mickeyco View Post
I don't know much about roofing (other than it's up high), what you can see of the sheathing looks good, but I'd have to agree that they should probably remove it for inspection purposes. Now the reason I posted, are they using ice and water shield on the bottom, doesn't look like it.





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I think I see a roll of ice shield in the pic look closer to the roll farthest away.
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Old 02-16-2009, 07:21 PM   #8
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Re: Is It Okay To Leave The Old Felt On?


I like to renail sheathing with at least electro galvs if not hot dips whenever the roof comes off. I've seen sheathing nails rusted nearly through due to attic moisture. Is the roofer liable if the sheathing comes off with the shingles?
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Old 02-16-2009, 07:21 PM   #9
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Re: Is It Okay To Leave The Old Felt On?


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Originally Posted by mickeyco View Post
Now the reason I posted, are they using ice and water shield on the bottom, doesn't look like it.
Yes, they are. No problems there. They've done work for me before, but I never noticed that they leave the old felt on. They have an 11 man crew, and they can have a couple roofs off and back on again by the end of the day.
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Old 02-16-2009, 07:23 PM   #10
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Re: Is It Okay To Leave The Old Felt On?


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Originally Posted by mdshunk View Post
Yes, they are. No problems there. They've done work for me before, but I never noticed that they leave the old felt on. They have an 11 man crew, and they can have a couple roofs off and back on again by the end of the day.
Ahh, Latinos!! haha

I thought it looked like it.
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Old 02-16-2009, 07:27 PM   #11
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Re: Is It Okay To Leave The Old Felt On?


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Ahh, Latinos!! haha

I thought it looked like it.
No, every single one of them are Americans, and most of them are local boys.
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Old 02-16-2009, 07:30 PM   #12
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Re: Is It Okay To Leave The Old Felt On?


Sorry.....I saw the cap nails, shovels, and Bostitch guns, then you said 11 man crew. Just had a hunch, but I was wrong.
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Old 02-16-2009, 07:31 PM   #13
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Re: Is It Okay To Leave The Old Felt On?


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Originally Posted by MJW View Post
Sorry.....I saw the cap nails, shovels, and Bostitch guns, then you said 11 man crew. Just had a hunch, but I was wrong.
What, you glue your shingles on?
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Old 02-16-2009, 07:51 PM   #14
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Re: Is It Okay To Leave The Old Felt On?


I'm with Leo; as long as the sheathing is ok--and by the look of it, it probably is--a double layer of felt will do no harm. If an experienced roofer doesn't notice any bad spots just by walking on 'em, they probably aren't there.

That was some pretty good wind. A friend lost some siding from his townhouse, and I pulled up there at the same time a roofer was getting out of his truck across the street. He was laughing, because we were the 4th & 5th truck/ladder combo to show up on that cul-de-sac.
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Old 02-16-2009, 07:52 PM   #15
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Re: Is It Okay To Leave The Old Felt On?


Quote:
Originally Posted by mdshunk View Post
I got up on a roof that I'm having replaced today (wind damage Friday). I noticed that the roofers are leaving on the old felt, substantially. They assure me that it's normal, and I'm hard pressed to insist otherwise. Are there any problems associated with leaving the old felt on, save for the fact that the proposal said 'removal to the decking'?

I snapped this photo while they were on their lunch break:


In Florida that used to be standard practice, a good roofer or even a half way decent one can tell where the bad sheeting is by walking on the roof.

Now with the ever changing FBC, the roof has to be stripped to the deck and if the decking is not nailed with ring shank nails, it has to be renailed, and a secondary barrier installed, then the felt and then shingles, tile or metal.
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Old 02-16-2009, 07:53 PM   #16
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Re: Is It Okay To Leave The Old Felt On?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tinstaafl View Post
That was some pretty good wind. A friend lost some siding from his townhouse, and I pulled up there at the same time a roofer was getting out of his truck across the street. He was laughing, because we were the 4th & 5th truck/ladder combo to show up on that cul-de-sac.
I'm just happy it happened a couple days ago, and I've already got a roof going on. Who's your daddy?
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Old 02-17-2009, 12:41 AM   #17
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Re: Is It Okay To Leave The Old Felt On?


I will not leave the old felt on no if ands or butts about it! When i sell a roof its in the contract to remove all exsisting shingles and underlayment for inspection and renailing any loose plywood. I know its tempting because sometimes the shingles come right up and leave the felt nicely intact. my boys always try to sway me into leaving it, no dice. and as someone else posted you need to apply the ice and water to the plywood directly. Actually i attended a roof seminar 10 yrs ago or so and they stressed removing the old felt their theory was the old felt acts like a dry sponge and removes the good properties from the new application. Im not sure i buy into this thinking the whole way. I just know nobody can bitch if the all the felt is removed, makes them think they are getting their monies worth. IMHO
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Old 02-17-2009, 09:33 AM   #18
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Re: Is It Okay To Leave The Old Felt On?


After democrats took control of congress in 2006
The roofing laws changed in florida in oct 2007.

If your area had the same new law, you're roof would be a lot more expensive than you paid.

Your roofing wouldn't have got done in a timely manner.

Before oct2007 we never tore off the exisiting felt unless it was crumbling apart or there was rotten wood to be replaced.

As previously mentioned, roofers know where the rotten wood is even before the shingles are touched.

plus water has to ruin the felt before it ruins the wood and is easy to see.

The more underlayment-the more protection.
Some sheeting nails over time will try to poke up through your roof.
One layer of underlayment doesnt help protect against that.

He did install ice/water. Notice how the bottem run is not nailed.
Notice the shiny roll (ice/water)on the right hand side.

They're doing a fine job!
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Old 02-17-2009, 09:44 AM   #19
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Re: Is It Okay To Leave The Old Felt On?


I wouldn't do it because how can I inspect the wood for damage, also i doubt it but it could make the new layer of felt lay un-even. If the contract says tear off the roof, they should tear off the roof. If the contract says tear off the roof but not the felt... I don't see why they'd leave the felt on other than they are lazy.
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Old 02-17-2009, 01:24 PM   #20
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Re: Is It Okay To Leave The Old Felt On?


If they left the felt on to intentionally cover rotten decking, or if the original felting was lumpy to the point of bumpy I could see this being a problem, otherwise this will probably fall into the catagory of nitty and picky (I would like to clarify to this point that I should have been a poet, there was no intent to call out any nitpickedness, the original question was/is entirely justificated). Unless you are of course dealing with insane windcodes and need to see how the sheeting is secured .

A lot of the older roofs around here are shiplap...in which case we prefer to leave the old paper on. Otherwise the labour really starts to rack up as your are : A) picking up little cornflake sized pieces of tar paper all day and; B) sweeping the roof sideways and individually picking out the debris that gets caught between the laps. Extra labour = More $, and in those shipdippity cases, it adds up quite a bit. I would think removing that extra layer of paper in the picture might not be so labour intensive, but it will still take x amount of time, so in a sense it almost becomes another layer to start costing in. Depending upon how it is affixed and the state it is in, it could very well take more time to remove the paper than the shingles on top!! Although I am sure in this instance the paper would come off relatively easy, if you start looking to remove all the paper, then you are also looking at removing all the leftover nails, then you are looking at ensuring the roof deck is fixed properly, then you are engineering these old trusses...then you are etcetering ad infinitum and indeed nauseum.

The question is where does one draw the line, every instance of roof is different and unique, so that line needs to be re-evaluated each and every time.

I would say this time, the judgement rendered appears satisfactory.

Also, if the roof leaks it shouldln't be because the felt was installed incorrectly, it will be because whatever ontop of the felt was installed incorrectly, shingles, shakes, whathaveyou. Most roof rot (I'd say over 90% - at least around this neck of the woods) occurs at the eaves, not in the main field area. If there is any rot in the middle of the roof, they are going to find it when they step through it, or nail through it. At which time they either fix the rot, or they don't fix it...at which point you have a lot more to worry about than just them not removing a layer of felt!

And finally, if I see old paper in REALLY GOOD shape, I will most definitely leave it there. I figure 2 layers are better than one, and regardless how you look at it, that paper is going to be full of holes anyway


Also, if the roof leaks it is never going to because the felt was installed incorrectly, it will be because whatever ontop of the felt was installed incorrectly, shingles, shakes, whathaveyou. Most roof rot (I'd say over 90% - at least around this neck of the woods) occurs at the eaves, not in the main field area. If there is any rot in the middle or the roof, they are going to find it when they step through it, or nail through it. At which time they either fix the rot, or they don't fix it...at which point you have a lot more to worry about than just them not removing a layer of felt!

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