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Insurance Qualifications

 
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Old 05-06-2012, 08:48 PM   #1
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Insurance Qualifications


So I have been installing roofs for contractors here lately, but there is no money in it. My guys and I work like dogs and it gets us by, but there is really no profit to be made. The last job i did was a homowner giving the work to a contractor, giving the work to another contractor, then passing it on again to me. I made about 600 bucks on it after expenses. whoo hoo hoo.

I want to cut out these middle men and go straight to the insurance companies. I was canvasing my area today because we had some high winds and nickle size hail. I saw a few houses missing shingles and stopped and gave the homowners my card. Several houses I saw were only missing one shingle.

My question comes here when I am wondering how little damage a house can have and still qualify for a replacement? I mean can you tell the adjuster that one shingle has blown off and more will blow off over time and cause a leak if you do not fix it now?

Anyone have any good examples?
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Old 05-06-2012, 09:08 PM   #2
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Re: Insurance Qualifications


I'm surprised to hear you can't make money roofing. Might need to look further into that for yourself.

Regarding your question, they will come out but small damage like a shingle missing will most likely be MUCH less than the deductible for the homeowner.

As far as hail damage, I believe there has to be 10 hits in 10x10 area for a roof plane to be considered totaled. With wind, 50% of a roof plane needs to have the shingles actually pulled out from the nails, or that's at least what I remember. I don't like insurance, isn't really much money it compared to working with residential unless you devote extra 10 hours to just dealing with the insurance companies estimate.

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Old 05-06-2012, 09:13 PM   #3
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Re: Insurance Qualifications


It's going to be very difficult to collect on an entire roof from an insurance company if there's only a few shingles missing. However, if a matching replacement shingle is not available, then you might have a chance. I've seen some insurance companies that have actually sent samples of the existing shingles to an independent company that can determine the brand, color, and availability of that shingle. I'd say if there's a matching shingle available, your going to be out of luck. You'll have a small repair job that generally won't meet the owners deductible.
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Old 05-06-2012, 10:59 PM   #4
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Re: Insurance Qualifications


Nickel size hail doesnt normally do enough damage to get a roof replaced.

Missing shingles will not normally get a roof replaced. They typically just pay to replace the missing shingles.

In windstorms, they look for "zippers". Zippers are lines of shingles that have been lifted up and won't reseal. If you can find enough zippers, you might get a full replacement but I've seen plenty denied.

I don't agree that it takes 10 hours to read an insurance report. Typically, it takes about ten minutes and if something is missing, another ten minutes to write up a supplement request. If the supplement request is easily proven, they typically approve it without much fanfare.

Also, I've never heard of an insurance company needing ten hits in a ten by ten area. I've seen them buy roofs with as little as five. It is only one consideration. Hits on the metal caps and gutters also make a difference.

Items that are typically missing on the insurance report are: permits, drip edge, step flashing, overhead and profit, etc. You really don't have to use line item programs such as Xactimate but it makes it easier for the adjuster to get it approved.
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Old 05-07-2012, 07:44 AM   #5
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Re: Insurance Qualifications


Of course you can't make money being a sub of a sub of a guy who shouldn't be bidding work to begin with. How would he know what it costs if he doesn't do the work?

Insurance work is all over the place as far as rules. Really, there are no set rules for any of it. I've heard the 10 in 10 by 10 and the 3 trades for O&P. It's all pure BS. If it's insurance, don't expect top rates or even going rates. If it's a cut rate policy, don't expect hardly anything worth your time. If work was "graded", insurance pays for minimum code which is a D-. Too many people can do D- work, therefore the market frankly, sucks.
If people want a quality roof, they would never hire a guy that hires another guy who hires another guy to do the work.
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Old 05-08-2012, 09:17 PM   #6
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Re: Insurance Qualifications


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Originally Posted by MJW View Post
Of course you can't make money being a sub of a sub of a guy who shouldn't be bidding work to begin with. How would he know what it costs if he doesn't do the work?

Insurance work is all over the place as far as rules. Really, there are no set rules for any of it. I've heard the 10 in 10 by 10 and the 3 trades for O&P. It's all pure BS. If it's insurance, don't expect top rates or even going rates. If it's a cut rate policy, don't expect hardly anything worth your time. If work was "graded", insurance pays for minimum code which is a D-. Too many people can do D- work, therefore the market frankly, sucks.
If people want a quality roof, they would never hire a guy that hires another guy who hires another guy to do the work.



I agree. That one was nuts. I got an offer from another guy today doing the same thing. This is nuts. I denied the job because we were 700 bucks apart. I don't get it. These are both well known roofing companies. It makes me think less of large companies. The general public thinks the bigger the better, but I find that big companies suck and do crappy work because they sub it out and don't pay the subs enough to do a quality job.
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Old 05-09-2012, 07:26 AM   #7
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Re: Insurance Qualifications


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Originally Posted by bluebird5 View Post
[/B]


I agree. That one was nuts. I got an offer from another guy today doing the same thing. This is nuts. I denied the job because we were 700 bucks apart. I don't get it. These are both well known roofing companies. It makes me think less of large companies. The general public thinks the bigger the better, but I find that big companies suck and do crappy work because they sub it out and don't pay the subs enough to do a quality job.
I agree. That seems to be the case and I have been saying it for years. A "large" roofing company consists of salesmen and office staff. The work is all done by the lowest bidding sub. How can the public not see that? Ignorance.
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Old 05-09-2012, 09:39 PM   #8
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Re: Insurance Qualifications


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Originally Posted by MJW View Post
I agree. That seems to be the case and I have been saying it for years. A "large" roofing company consists of salesmen and office staff. The work is all done by the lowest bidding sub. How can the public not see that? Ignorance.
I like that. That is gonna become part of my sales pitch to homeowners
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Old 05-09-2012, 09:43 PM   #9
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Re: Insurance Qualifications


I don't want to get in trouble for mentioning names here and I feel free to remove this mods if you don;t like it.

Does Mr. Roof do the cheap sub thing?
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Old 05-12-2012, 09:16 AM   #10
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Re: Insurance Qualifications


The number of hail hits per square varies from insurance company to insurance company, some as few as 5, some as many as 10. It is possible to get a roof replaced with a few shingles damaged when the roof is very old and brittle making it impossible to repair the damaged shingles without damaging adjacent shingles. I don't see a guy who has minimal experience with insurance work pulling this off however. It sounds like you didn't even get on the roofs you knocked on to inspect them. A closer view may have found significantly more damage.

There can be very good money in insurance jobs if you know what you're doing. There can be very mediocre money in insurance jobs if you don't. Not a lot different than retail/cash bid work.
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Old 05-13-2012, 03:18 PM   #11
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Re: Insurance Qualifications


In my area the amount of hits per square ranges from 5-18 hits. Of course some adjusters will want to see 18 mat breaking hits to buy a slope while the next adjuster for a different insurance carrier will want to see 5 hits that just dislodge granuals in a test square.

Also depending on the age of the roof will also depend on how many hits deem it to be replaced.

As far as wind like othes have mentioned it all depends on the state as some cover matching. In most cases you have to a have quite a bit of wind damage to pay for a slope. In these cases quite often the carrier will pay for slope by slope due to wind and not the whole roof when only one of the slopes has wind damage.

Subbing from a sub of a gc will never earn you much money. If you want to stay busy like you are now just go work for home depot!

As far as the time it takes to negotiate with the insurance companies it's typicaly fast and easy. For example two claims ago the adjuster paid $8,500 for a roof replacement. I sent an Xactimate "revised" estimate for $10,500 and the adjuster over the phone paid $10 over my estimate! My wife's a GC and the last claim she worked the adjuster wrote the estimate for $17K and the Xactimate estimate was written for $34,000 including 20% OH&P for just siding and roofing. After about a week the adjuster called and said they would pay the claim in full. If you are patient with the insurance adjusters you will more often than not get what you want.

BTW,
Finished a roof yesterday and went off the adjusters scope figuring he did satelite measurements. Ended up 7 sq's short!!! Pulled an Eagleview and punched up the Xactimate estimate so we'll see what happens this week. Adjuster was at 58.95sq off and Eagleview was at 66.66sq off, all 12/12!!! Homeowner built a 9,500sq ft all brick house at the age of 19.

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