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Half-Laced Or Full Weave?

 
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Old 01-28-2008, 05:12 PM   #1
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Half-Laced Or Full Weave?


Just wanting to know yall's opinion of shinglin a valley? i roofed quite a few house in N.C. and my boss always did a full weave. That's how i was taught, but now that i am here in Fl., all i see is Half -laced and i am constantly getting call for leaks and they seem alot easier to tear off in high winds. Do you think it should be required more often or not. what are your thoughts on this
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Old 01-28-2008, 07:34 PM   #2
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Re: Half-Laced Or Full Weave?


A full weave should do much better. Even then, if it's nailed wrong, it won't matter.
In the Hattera area, every roofer I talked to and watched working 'Nailed in the black'. Job security as it ensured blow-off every storm that came through.

Not tto cast aspersions, I don't know where of how you nail, and I only talked to about 9-10.

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Old 01-28-2008, 08:18 PM   #3
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Re: Half-Laced Or Full Weave?


Around here you pretty much only see closed cut valleys or, as you refer, 1/2 weave. If the are properly done leaking or blow off should not be an issue. It also happens to be the valley that most often shows up on the back of the shingle wrapper. Another advantage for a solo guy like me is that I can finish one side faster if I don't have to bring them up at the same time. At the end of a day this can make tarping easier for me If I only need to worry about one side of the valley

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Old 01-28-2008, 09:13 PM   #4
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Re: Half-Laced Or Full Weave?


Quote:
Originally Posted by River Rat Dad View Post
Around here you pretty much only see closed cut valleys or, as you refer, 1/2 weave. If the are properly done leaking or blow off should not be an issue. It also happens to be the valley that most often shows up on the back of the shingle wrapper. Another advantage for a solo guy like me is that I can finish one side faster if I don't have to bring them up at the same time. At the end of a day this can make tarping easier for me If I only need to worry about one side of the valley

Another good point of this method is that it works better when the intersecting roof lines are different pitches.
We've never had a problem with our installs,but have had to repair a couple of this type of weave when the roofer let the top of the cut shingle protrude out towards the valley too far and the water ran across the top of the shingle past the valley paper(I&W)
These edges(tops)should be cut back at an angle away from the valley.
I've never had any blow offs here but the coast line may be a little different.
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Old 01-28-2008, 09:32 PM   #5
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Re: Half-Laced Or Full Weave?


Quote:
Originally Posted by oldfrt View Post
.....the roofer let the top of the cut shingle protrude out towards the valley too far and the water ran across the top of the shingle past the valley paper(I&W).
These edges(tops)should be cut back at an angle away from the valley.....
And almost none do it!
They slice 'em all at once
and leave the problem
you describe.
They all look the same...
til the bad job leaks.
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Old 01-28-2008, 10:52 PM   #6
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Re: Half-Laced Or Full Weave?


For speed, I alos prefer the cali-cut valley over the weave. And like they pointed out, it's got to be done right.

BTW around here, I've been seeing many of both types with a joint in the center. They all leaked like heck too.
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Old 01-29-2008, 01:18 AM   #7
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Re: Half-Laced Or Full Weave?


I prefer the full weaqve,If you do the one side so the shingle ends are 18-24"from valley center,when you come up with the other side ,you are just adding a shingle there,no problem at all,although I hear on the heavier weight ones the mfgr.s prefer the california cut,I like it like this:
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Old 01-29-2008, 06:48 AM   #8
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Re: Half-Laced Or Full Weave?


i think it's the best way too. I dont do alot of roofing now, just repairs and and some flashing, but is there a method to determine which side gets cut or is it just up to the guy putting it on. i was taught to look at which roof would shed more water (bigger) and have that be the cut side. i think doing the opposite especially if the uncut side is a higher pitch it would run more water under there.
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Old 01-29-2008, 07:44 AM   #9
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Re: Half-Laced Or Full Weave?


You got it ABN. Each roof is unique.

Full weave is best of all. I put it on my house.
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Old 01-29-2008, 07:46 AM   #10
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Re: Half-Laced Or Full Weave?


I haven't done a full weave valley since the early 90's and altho i never had problems with them i don't have problems with the close cut neither and they are faster IMO like acouple posters said so i weave the starter and first upright corse than close the rest and cutting the points is a must and not sure how,who,or why but for some reason that is reffered to as "Cutting the Ears" here in my area.

I have never tried this type but have seen it on several roof repairs in the past 10 years or so and want to ask if any of you ever tried this method.
You run under side through, than chalk a line were your cut would be, than run a full shingle with exposed tab section pointing to the valley, than when you start running the over side you place the bottom right corner even with the shingle you run up the line and repeat with every corse thus you don't have to cut any of the shingles afterwards.
I never seen it done with 3-tabs but have seen several with laminates which most roofers step off according to suggested patterns.
Out of all the repairs i have been on and seen this type of valley done none were leaking,i'm still shakey about trying it tho.
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Old 01-29-2008, 07:54 AM   #11
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Re: Half-Laced Or Full Weave?


What does the shingle wrapper say to do?

Some manufacturers don't want their valleys weaved.
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Old 01-29-2008, 08:30 AM   #12
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Re: Half-Laced Or Full Weave?


I would only weave low pitch roofs with equal insecting ridge heights. I can see the durability thing of a weave but if you have a small doghouse at the low end of a 15ft run you want that cut valley to create a channel for the water to follow. On the other hand they both should work if installed properly. I guess its a preffrence thing.
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Old 01-29-2008, 11:57 AM   #13
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Re: Half-Laced Or Full Weave?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Slyfox View Post
You run under side through, than chalk a line were your cut would be, than run a full shingle with exposed tab section pointing to the valley, than when you start running the over side you place the bottom right corner even with the shingle you run up the line and repeat with every corse thus you don't have to cut any of the shingles afterwards.
I never seen it done with 3-tabs but have seen several with laminates which most roofers step off according to suggested patterns.
Out of all the repairs i have been on and seen this type of valley done none were leaking,i'm still shakey about trying it tho.
I'll let you know in a few years!
That's how they did my "W" open valleys.
After they finally showed me
what they were talking about
(can't remember what they called it)
I couldn't come up with any reason
not to give it a try.
I had already given up on finding
any roofer who would step them in
and clip the corners (cut the ears you said?)the way I used to do it.
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Old 01-29-2008, 02:00 PM   #14
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Re: Half-Laced Or Full Weave?


Quote:
Originally Posted by neolitic View Post
I'll let you know in a few years!
That's how they did my "W" open valleys.
After they finally showed me
what they were talking about
(can't remember what they called it)
I couldn't come up with any reason
not to give it a try.
I had already given up on finding
any roofer who would step them in
and clip the corners (cut the ears you said?)the way I used to do it.
I would like to hear if you have any problems with it or not, like i said i don't feel comfortable enough to try it but as all the oldies are always saying you should never stop learning so if it does work than i would surely be willing to try it because it doe's appear as if it would be a faster installment of valleys.
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Old 01-29-2008, 02:08 PM   #15
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Re: Half-Laced Or Full Weave?


Quote:
Originally Posted by neolitic View Post
....I had already given up on finding
any roofer who would step them in
and clip the corners (cut the ears you said?)the way I used to do it.

I am the oldies!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slyfox View Post
I would like to hear if you have any problems with it or not, like i said i don't feel comfortable enough to try it but as all the oldies are always saying you should never stop learning so if it does work than i would surely be willing to try it because it doe's appear as if it would be a faster installment of valleys.
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Old 01-30-2008, 09:01 AM   #16
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Re: Half-Laced Or Full Weave?


Quote:
Originally Posted by neolitic View Post
I am the oldies!
LOL, well i for sure look forward to hearing what you think about that system than.

Yes i did call it "cutting the ear" and like i said i have no idea who came up with that term or why but when we started doing closed cut valleys called tham Cali valleys back than because the sales rep told us it was a west coast thing but anyhow the boss's at Sun Roofing told me not to forget to Cut The Ears and i said HuH? and he showed me to cut back on the top corner and explained why but when i asked why he called it cutting the ears he laffed and said thats just what it is.
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Old 01-30-2008, 05:21 PM   #17
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Re: Half-Laced Or Full Weave?


Never weaved a valley in 10 years. Used to do open valley then switched to closed valley cali-style with one cut. At first I didn't like the switch but working alone made it easier dealing with a roll of valley rather than 10ft sections. About 5 years ago a lot of builders started switching to closed valley and now most used closed valley. From time to time you'll see a weaved valley but usually the roofers didn't do it right and it looks horible. Once I seen a weave were the shingles were weaved about 1.5 to 2ft past the point of the valley, it was an eye sore.

Can't recall any leak calls with the closed valley but had a couple with the open valley. We're talking 50-60 mph wind with 6 inches of rain, sort of a freak thing! My thought was it was wind driven water getting pushed up under the ridge at the top of the valley were there was an open spot.

With both methods all my "ears" were cut back a few inches. It's the easiest with the laminates because you can just run them a hair short of the center point. Can't recall a laminated roof ever leaking with either valley style.

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Old 01-30-2008, 07:29 PM   #18
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Re: Half-Laced Or Full Weave?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Slyfox View Post

I have never tried this type but have seen it on several roof repairs in the past 10 years or so and want to ask if any of you ever tried this method.
You run under side through, than chalk a line were your cut would be, than run a full shingle with exposed tab section pointing to the valley, than when you start running the over side you place the bottom right corner even with the shingle you run up the line and repeat with every corse thus you don't have to cut any of the shingles afterwards.
I never seen it done with 3-tabs but have seen several with laminates which most roofers step off according to suggested patterns.
Out of all the repairs i have been on and seen this type of valley done none were leaking,i'm still shakey about trying it tho.

I've seen that method a couple of times here.

We started calling it a Canadian Weave because the old timer that had showed us this method was from Canada.

I didn't really care for it,so I never really tried it.

What I saw happen with this method:
If you keep running your next course of shingles with the bottom corner, even with the valley line shingle,( because your trying to avoid making cuts) than the step on each subsequent course wouldn't be enough to meet the shingle specs.
The step would decrease as the pitch of the roof increased.

So you would end up having to cut the shingles to get the step right.
and you would have to run out a couple shingles on each course or keep lifting the end of the previous shingle to nail under it.

Slyfox,

What kind of problems have you seen with this type of valley?
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Old 01-31-2008, 10:30 AM   #19
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Re: Half-Laced Or Full Weave?


Never had a leak since started doing it this way. The tar strip seals it. Some roofers don't like the look, but it looks better than a weave. IMO
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Old 01-31-2008, 12:13 PM   #20
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Re: Half-Laced Or Full Weave?


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I've seen that method a couple of times here.

We started calling it a Canadian Weave because the old timer that had showed us this method was from Canada.

I didn't really care for it,so I never really tried it.

What I saw happen with this method:
If you keep running your next course of shingles with the bottom corner, even with the valley line shingle,( because your trying to avoid making cuts) than the step on each subsequent course wouldn't be enough to meet the shingle specs.
The step would decrease as the pitch of the roof increased.

So you would end up having to cut the shingles to get the step right.
and you would have to run out a couple shingles on each course or keep lifting the end of the previous shingle to nail under it.

Slyfox,

What kind of problems have you seen with this type of valley?
I do alot of repairs here in my area, even General Contractors who don't use me as thier roofer will call me on repair issues because of my high quality record for dealing with leaks so i see alot of work done by other roofers and i have only seen two roofers/roofing companies here in my area use this type of valley because i was called out to do repairs on some of thier work but the repairs were never "atleast so far" a problem involving the valleys.

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