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Benefits Of Torch Down Roofing Over Other Products...

 
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Old 05-09-2010, 02:08 PM   #1
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Benefits Of Torch Down Roofing Over Other Products...


What are the benefits of Torch Down Roofing over other roofing products?
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Old 05-09-2010, 02:18 PM   #2
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Re: Benefits Of Torch Down Roofing Over Other Products...


If you don't know, Im not telling. :-)

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Old 05-09-2010, 02:28 PM   #3
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Re: Benefits Of Torch Down Roofing Over Other Products...


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If you don't know, Im not telling. :-)


Well, I haven't seen any.

There are so many reasons to "not" use them, I was wondering if there
was some overwhelming redeeming quality that would justify the risks.

Oh well! I'll just keep on waiting...


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Old 05-09-2010, 07:11 PM   #4
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Re: Benefits Of Torch Down Roofing Over Other Products...


There is no more risk than cooking a steak.
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Old 05-09-2010, 11:06 PM   #5
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Re: Benefits Of Torch Down Roofing Over Other Products...


Ya, if you smoke you could burn your house down smoking a cig going to bed. If you worked for someone you didn't like you could accidently burn a house roofing it. The worst he could do is fire you which is what the point would have been anyways. Bet shis scenario has happened more than once. The last thing I would want a disgrunted worker doing is waving a blow torch around!!!

The roof we finished today we put down 2.5sq of torch down. We could have used another flat roofing product but I wanted a product that would match the Resawn Shake shingles and I feel we did that with the Hickory colored torch down. It should be much more leak proof than the copper seam we took off. We had copper on two sides, a shingle run on the other, and brick on the fourth side, there was no chance to burn this one down! We could have used the glorifed ice and water shield from CT or GAF but didn't want to bother with a product that needs to be replaced in 10 years or less.

Don't know of many other flat roofing products that can last as long as a quality installed torch down. Of course others are easier, lighter and safer to install than torch down. I bet most roofers getting into flat roofs now would not consider torch down. Seems like most roofers doing it have been doing it for a long time.
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Old 05-10-2010, 05:41 AM   #6
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Re: Benefits Of Torch Down Roofing Over Other Products...


Quote:
Originally Posted by dougger222 View Post

Don't know of many other flat roofing products that can last as long as a quality installed torch down.
Uh, QUALITY INSTALLED copper flat seam. By 3-4 times.
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Old 05-10-2010, 06:51 AM   #7
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Re: Benefits Of Torch Down Roofing Over Other Products...


Quote:
Originally Posted by dougger222 View Post
Ya, if you smoke you could burn your house down smoking a cig going to bed. If you worked for someone you didn't like you could accidently burn a house roofing it. The worst he could do is fire you which is what the point would have been anyways. Bet shis scenario has happened more than once. The last thing I would want a disgrunted worker doing is waving a blow torch around!!!

The roof we finished today we put down 2.5sq of torch down. We could have used another flat roofing product but I wanted a product that would match the Resawn Shake shingles and I feel we did that with the Hickory colored torch down. It should be much more leak proof than the copper seam we took off. We had copper on two sides, a shingle run on the other, and brick on the fourth side, there was no chance to burn this one down! We could have used the glorifed ice and water shield from CT or GAF but didn't want to bother with a product that needs to be replaced in 10 years or less.

Don't know of many other flat roofing products that can last as long as a quality installed torch down. Of course others are easier, lighter and safer to install than torch down. I bet most roofers getting into flat roofs now would not consider torch down. Seems like most roofers doing it have been doing it for a long time.
Hey D,

So what you're saying is that Torch Down roofing is the longest lasting flat roofing membrane system?
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Old 05-10-2010, 05:46 PM   #8
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Re: Benefits Of Torch Down Roofing Over Other Products...


I disagree whole heartedly with Aaron as we have argued this topic many times in the past. There is extensive risk even for a well trained torch man. If you do not introduce fire into a structure, your chance of causing a fire goes down substantially. It's llike coating a roof with a sprayer or pouring from buckets. Some people ask why I pour instead of spray, I say if I don't spray the coating my chance of overspray goes down to nearly zero. There's always a chance of drips and runs getting caught in the wind, but I am not introducing a cloud of coating into the atmosphere around my work area.

Those chances do not go down to zero. yeah yeah yeah fire extinguisher on the roof. yeah yeah yeah 1 hour fire watch. To all that I say "why?" Why when there are so many other alternatives. Faster, more affordable, and safer... And for the record I burnt over 33% of my body cooking a steak. Food for thought.

Let's face facts folks, roofers burn down structures. Just google it. I've got photographs.

I still install torch applied modified bitumen upon request and for repair work. I just nolonger promote it as our primary low slope covering. However like all materials, there is a place and a time for everything, including modified bitumen.

I think that a properly installed and properly soldered flat lock seam copper low slope roof should far exceed a modified bitumen roofing system. Let's see a 4 ply modifiued bitumen is a 20 year rated roof and a flat lock copper soldered seam is an 80 year roof. Then again it all comes down to how comfortable the installer is with the products he is working with. A 90 mil EPDM roof that is double seamed is rated at 30 years. I've never seen modified go 30 years. LOL then again I have never seen a 20 year old EPDM roof that didn't need major repairs to the seams and penetrations.
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Old 05-10-2010, 06:27 PM   #9
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Re: Benefits Of Torch Down Roofing Over Other Products...


If I have a low slope roof in the winter ( colder temps ) I will promote the torch down for the reason of being able to control the application more so then other low slope products.
Even with flat seam metal, cold slows it down even though I can turn it up with the hado.

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Old 05-10-2010, 07:35 PM   #10
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Re: Benefits Of Torch Down Roofing Over Other Products...


I hung up my torch years ago.
The last job I used it on got a little
out of hand.
Not because a fire was started,but because of an over zealous Volunteer Fire Dept.

I was working on a small flat roof beneath a running air conditioner,and some smoke entered the interior.
A secretary comes running out saying she thinks there is a fire.
I was always real careful when using the torch,so I explained to her how the smoke entered the building.

Well,she insists I call the VFD.
I make the call,explain the situation,and ask that they just send one person over quietly to verify my claim,so everyone will be at ease.

Well,two minutes later,here comes 4 trucks, sirens blowing,about 10 gung- ho firemen hooking up hoses.
Three of them jump up on a small 3'x6' roof with me,axes in hand,getting ready to dump upteen gallons of water that is sure to destroy the interior below us.
It seemed there was no stopping them till I finally spotted someone that wasn't quite so wide-eyed and got him to call off the attack.

After a ten minute walk through the interior,feeling walls,and realizing that the smell had pretty much dissipated,the VFD packed up and left.
I stayed an extra hour for assurance, thinking of what may have happened,and swore to find a better way to install a flat roof.

Maybe part of the scare was that this was a lawyers office.
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Old 05-10-2010, 09:04 PM   #11
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Re: Benefits Of Torch Down Roofing Over Other Products...


I had the fire department called on me by a union painting company working across the street. The funny thing, LOL we were applying elastomeric roof coating. The firemen poked their heads on the roof, saw what we were doing, asked if we called, and drove off.
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Old 05-10-2010, 11:25 PM   #12
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Re: Benefits Of Torch Down Roofing Over Other Products...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Grumpy View Post
I disagree whole heartedly with Aaron as we have argued this topic many times in the past. There is extensive risk even for a well trained torch man. If you do not introduce fire into a structure, your chance of causing a fire goes down substantially. It's llike coating a roof with a sprayer or pouring from buckets. Some people ask why I pour instead of spray, I say if I don't spray the coating my chance of overspray goes down to nearly zero. There's always a chance of drips and runs getting caught in the wind, but I am not introducing a cloud of coating into the atmosphere around my work area.

Those chances do not go down to zero. yeah yeah yeah fire extinguisher on the roof. yeah yeah yeah 1 hour fire watch. To all that I say "why?" Why when there are so many other alternatives. Faster, more affordable, and safer... And for the record I burnt over 33% of my body cooking a steak. Food for thought.

Let's face facts folks, roofers burn down structures. Just google it. I've got photographs.

I still install torch applied modified bitumen upon request and for repair work. I just nolonger promote it as our primary low slope covering. However like all materials, there is a place and a time for everything, including modified bitumen.

I think that a properly installed and properly soldered flat lock seam copper low slope roof should far exceed a modified bitumen roofing system. Let's see a 4 ply modifiued bitumen is a 20 year rated roof and a flat lock copper soldered seam is an 80 year roof. Then again it all comes down to how comfortable the installer is with the products he is working with. A 90 mil EPDM roof that is double seamed is rated at 30 years. I've never seen modified go 30 years. LOL then again I have never seen a 20 year old EPDM roof that didn't need major repairs to the seams and penetrations.
This is TRUE! But: "On a long enough time line, the survival rate stope to Zero!"

As per Tyler Durden

and YES Modified Bitumen WILL last 30+ Years IF maintained and Aluminum Coated on a regular.
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Old 05-11-2010, 01:05 AM   #13
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Re: Benefits Of Torch Down Roofing Over Other Products...


The first Modified Bitumen roof I ever worked on 20 years ago is still performing quite well.

Saw it a few months ago. Very good condition. This was a mopped down SBS roof.

First torch roof I ever worked on is still going strong at Great America in Gurnee, IL. Saw that one too, with my roofer friend that maintains the roofing there.
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Old 05-11-2010, 03:51 PM   #14
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Re: Benefits Of Torch Down Roofing Over Other Products...


Quote:
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Uh, QUALITY INSTALLED copper flat seam. By 3-4 times.
Um, we tore one off yesterday, leaked like a siv. Property installed? Yes it appreaded so but it was 40 years old. Expensive? Oh ya, $9,000 2.3sq R&R.

Torch down=back to reality!

If you have more money than you know what to do with copper flat seam for sure. If your on a budget with your build or remodel sorry but forget about copper aint gonna happen.
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Old 05-11-2010, 03:56 PM   #15
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Re: Benefits Of Torch Down Roofing Over Other Products...


Quote:
Originally Posted by 2ndGen View Post
Hey D,

So what you're saying is that Torch Down roofing is the longest lasting flat roofing membrane system?
No, but my father and I have been amazed how long it's lasted. Again never a call back for either of us. Me going back 12 or so years him going back close to 30 years.

Is there other flat roofing systems that will last longer? Yes. Are they more expensive? Yes.

Don't know any home owners who have the money to put down a 80 year copper roof.
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Old 05-11-2010, 06:15 PM   #16
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Re: Benefits Of Torch Down Roofing Over Other Products...


Quote:
Originally Posted by dougger222 View Post
Um, we tore one off yesterday, leaked like a siv. Property installed? Yes it appreaded so but it was 40 years old. Expensive? Oh ya, $9,000 2.3sq R&R.
Something was wrong somewhere. Where did it leak? Busted seams? It likely wasn't pre-tinned before it was soldered or the pans were too large. $9K for 2.3sq of flat seam 16 oz copper is almost double what it should cost (at least here). Sounds like somebody got screwed twice if that info is correct.
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Old 05-11-2010, 06:16 PM   #17
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Re: Benefits Of Torch Down Roofing Over Other Products...


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Don't know any home owners who have the money to put down a 80 year copper roof.

I didn't know any either. So I made it my business to meet some.
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Old 05-11-2010, 06:53 PM   #18
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Re: Benefits Of Torch Down Roofing Over Other Products...


Quote:
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Something was wrong somewhere. Where did it leak? Busted seams? It likely wasn't pre-tinned before it was soldered or the pans were too large. $9K for 2.3sq of flat seam 16 oz copper is almost double what it should cost (at least here). Sounds like somebody got screwed twice if that info is correct.
Insurance payout with OH/P, $38K roof claim 34sq 7/12 plus another $12K in screens and window wraps. Oh, she found me... There was a large area in the garage we repaired due to the copper roof leaking recently and it's leaked over the years too. As a matter of fact at some point somebody spread mobile home roof sealant all over it! Of course being flat on the garage you don't see it but what a shame to cover up such a nice looking metal. BTW, small copper bay windows here run about $2,500 installed. I think the labor is a lot more in the Twin Cities than in Kentucky.

We roof a lot of milion dollar homes but very few even think about copper. As a matter of fact this is the roof roof I've ever done with all new copper flashing and vents on it, same for my father 38 years into and thousands of roofs. To be honest I'd like to work with it more. We'd have to get in the multi million dollar homes here to think about copper. To be honest don't get many calls from these home owners. Couple years ago looked at one were the home owner wanted shakes and copper. $40K for shingles and $10K for copper, he couldn't afford it. The other day looked at a cedar shingle roof, $25K for half the roof and $6K in copper, she couldn't afford it. That home was worth 1.5 mill. Never got a call for slate or tiles.

I know it's your trade in all and I'm very happy your making such a go at it in your area of Kentucky? Never knew that was an area with a huge demand for copper. Must be a lot of millionairs in your work area?

Found a good place though to get all the copper custom bent. They will get more of my business if we should ever be able to work with copper again.
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Old 05-11-2010, 07:00 PM   #19
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Re: Benefits Of Torch Down Roofing Over Other Products...


CU, your site is nice. Out of curiosity what does an average sized copper hood vent go for? I saw pictures of them at the place that did my custom bending and my wife has mentioned having one installed in the kitchen when we do it in a few years. The house is only 5 years old but she don't like the layout of the kitchen. It's a 10 foot celing in the kitchen if that changes anything.
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Old 05-11-2010, 08:06 PM   #20
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Re: Benefits Of Torch Down Roofing Over Other Products...


Quote:
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I didn't know any either. So I made it my business to meet some.
I've done a couple, small areas usually. Pockets, dormers, etc... It's less than you think, not much more than a 4-ply modified bitumen.

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