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-   -   Window and Door Header question (https://www.contractortalk.com/f14/window-door-header-question-84036/)

davinci 09-09-2010 08:59 AM

Window and Door Header question
 
hey guys,i notice most window and door headrs are usually 2 -2x 10's or 2 x 12's.. howevr, i notice there is always a gap between them with some wood separating them on each side. why are they just not nailed flush together,why put plywood in between? also,why only partially fll the gap,why not one continuous piece in the middle?
also,i see plywood on the bottom of the 2 x 10's .. why is that?
thanks guys

shanekw1 09-09-2010 09:30 AM

I'm not sure why anyone would separate the plys on a header with strips of plywood.

I do know that you will fail an inspection around here if the inspector sees it done that way.

CCCo. 09-09-2010 09:41 AM

The reason they are not nailed flush together, is because 1.5" x 2 = 3"

In most cases you want 3.5", so in order to obtain, you leave gap, fill gap, whatever.
It all about getting it to work together as dimensional lumber should.

Not sure if that answers your question,

I have also seen a lot of foam used, in place of ply,....

shanekw1 09-09-2010 09:49 AM

I should rephrase, I know why people do it.

I don't know why they don't just put the header in flush to the outside and build up the inside.

davinci 09-09-2010 10:01 AM

someone told me they put plywood in between or OSB in order to increasae the depth; makes sense. they lso said they leave a space so air can circulate,so it can breath? anyone hear of that?

Rio 09-09-2010 10:05 AM

It's not to let air circulate. As mentioned above, it's to bring the width to 3-1/2". The load is carried by the 2- 2X members, the ply not adding anything to that so it doesn't have to be a solid piece...................

shanekw1 09-09-2010 10:11 AM

Separating the plys with only a few strips of ply also makes it hard to properly insulate the header area.

davinci 09-09-2010 10:12 AM

so leaving a space basically saves some mone? technically could you use a solid piece? is using one solid piece common?

Cache 09-09-2010 10:19 AM

I don't let my framers build a header that way, regardless of wall thickness. The only legit reason for doing it is to make the header thickness match the 3.5" wall thickness, but that is exactly why I won't do it. There is absolutely no reason that the header needs to match the wall thickness. I generally build a box header, and they all get a 2x plate on top and bottom. The drywallers don't need to be able to fasten to the header because the 2x plates are there for that.

Doing it this way I never have to worry about a bowed header standing proud of the studs and causing a hump in the drywall.

CCCo. 09-09-2010 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cache (Post 1003691)
I don't let my framers build a header that way, regardless of wall thickness. The only legit reason for doing it is to make the header thickness match the 3.5" wall thickness, but that is exactly why I won't do it. There is absolutely no reason that the header needs to match the wall thickness. I generally build a box header, and they all get a 2x plate on top and bottom. The drywallers don't need to be able to fasten to the header because the 2x plates are there for that.

Doing it this way I never have to worry about a bowed header standing proud of the studs and causing a hump in the drywall.


I have to agree, to disagree,
I think it is important to screw the sheet to the header.
It ties everything together, from a structural bracing point of view.

Not saying anything is wrong with the way your doing it, I am just a big fan of fasteners, and tieing things together.

jkfox624 09-09-2010 03:48 PM

Seeing as how code doesnt allow us to build any 2x4 walls we just build a U box. Always have some scrap 2" blue board laying around so we just cut a piece and slide it in the gap. Insulates the header, dont have to worry about it taking a little bit of weather until its under roof, and it eliminates the chance it gets skipped when stuffing fiberglass.

Inner10 09-09-2010 04:17 PM

I've never seen em done with a gap in the middle....I like the fact they are not flush so I can run my contact wire in the channel.

Cache 09-09-2010 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CCCo. (Post 1003729)
I have to agree, to disagree,
I think it is important to screw the sheet to the header.
It ties everything together, from a structural bracing point of view.

Not saying anything is wrong with the way your doing it, I am just a big fan of fasteners, and tieing things together.

The plates are there to tie everything together. Header is simply to transfer load through the plate to the trimmers. There is no sheathing advantage (exterior or interior) to fastening to a header rather than the plates attached directly above and below it. The plates are indeed part of the box header. Two advantages though..

  1. No bulging drywall
  2. In thicker walls there is space to the interior for insulation.

loneframer 09-09-2010 04:59 PM

I always nail the double 2x10 tight, then cap it with 2x4 on the bottom. When it's installed in the wall, the void is to the outside. When the sheathing goes on, it gets nailed into the double plate and the bottom cap of the header. There is no issue with plywood or OSB spanning the 9.25" void. I like the solid back of the header inside where it can be used for fastening brackets for blinds, curtains, etc.

2x12 headers, however, need to be packed because a cap won't work on 8' walls. The 2x12 without the cap leaves a very tight opening for prehung doors. I usually use 3/8 plywood for packing, as 1/2" usually ends up thicker than the wall plates.

Joe Carola 09-09-2010 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davinci (Post 1003679)
they lso said they leave a space so air can circulate,so it can breath? anyone hear of that?

Whoever said that has a space between their ears.

Tom Struble 09-09-2010 05:37 PM

comeon Joe,you don't want your headers to suffocate do you?:shutup:

festerized 09-09-2010 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by loneframer (Post 1003839)
I always nail the double 2x10 tight, then cap it with 2x4 on the bottom. When it's installed in the wall, the void is to the outside. When the sheathing goes on, it gets nailed into the double plate and the bottom cap of the header. There is no issue with plywood or OSB spanning the 9.25" void. I like the solid back of the header inside where it can be used for fastening brackets for blinds, curtains, etc.

2x12 headers, however, need to be packed because a cap won't work on 8' walls. The 2x12 without the cap leaves a very tight opening for prehung doors. I usually use 3/8 plywood for packing, as 1/2" usually ends up thicker than the wall plates.

We always install the void to the inside, then the insulator could install 3/8 foam or sheet rocker can install a piece of lath across the middle.
How do you follow the nailing schedule if there’s nothing to nail too?

CCCo. 09-09-2010 05:46 PM

Simply put, there is at least 15 different opinions, or methods on this subject. :laughing:

As long as you don't forget the header, I think we are all fine. :thumbsup:

festerized 09-09-2010 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CCCo. (Post 1003860)
Simply put, there is at least 15 different opinions, or methods on this subject. :laughing:

As long as you don't forget the header, I think we are all fine. :thumbsup:

Nope just one way, my way, the correct way:thumbsup:

CCCo. 09-09-2010 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by festerized (Post 1003861)
Nope just one way, my way, the correct way:thumbsup:


Your way still calls for filling the void,...:whistling

Inside, center, outside, makes no difference to me.
Your way just pushes the framing aspect on to the next trade, saving you the work.
It still has to be dealt with. :w00t:


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