What's My Line? - Framing - Contractor Talk

What's My Line?

 
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Old 02-02-2009, 09:53 PM   #1
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What's My Line?


I wasn't sure if this should go here or in the Drafting & Cad section, but since I am asking framers this question, well...here seems logical.

When you receive a set of plans for framing how do you prefer your dimensions lines to be shown?

Exterior wall framing face to center line of interior walls?

Interior framing face of exterior walls to center or closest or farthest face of interior walls?

Some other preferred method?

Also does anyone like to have all dimensions called out from one starting point or the traditional way of the end of one dimension in a string is the start of the next dimension?
One GC asked me to have the dimensions all start from the same point in a string, (he said it was so his lead-man didn't have to do any math).

Center-line of windows and doors or to the rough-out?

This is an inquiry for residential & commercial, wood & steel framing.

Thanks guys (& some gals)

Andy.
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Old 02-02-2009, 10:34 PM   #2
 
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Re: What's My Line?


we all have our different preferences but as a proffesional thats why you have to take your time and make it right. especially with layout, we all learned this the hard way thats why you have to pay close attention to it. architects all have different ways to put. a mistake is layout cost the owner 3 times. once to do it once to take it down and another to put it back up

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Old 02-02-2009, 11:26 PM   #3
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Re: What's My Line?


Quote:
we all have our different preferences but as a proffesional thats why you have to take your time and make it right. especially with layout, we all learned this the hard way thats why you have to pay close attention to it. architects all have different ways to put. a mistake is layout cost the owner 3 times. once to do it once to take it down and another to put it back up
Truer words were never spoke, but still what IS your preference?

And where did your punctuation and capital letters go? Just goofing on you a bit man.

Andy.
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Old 02-02-2009, 11:50 PM   #4
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Re: What's My Line?


Start at one end of the building. Move to close edge of first wall. Face of framing is the industry standard. Keep moving from wall to wall consistently marking the same side of each consecutive wall. Label each wall studding, i.e. 2x4 2x6 etc.

Generally you give dimensions from origin to main measurements, and chain measure minor walls. If you can't do any math, put down your tape measure and pick up a shovel, because that is your only tool.

As for windows and doors, measure to what is critical. If you want to align centers with say an archway, then measure to center. If you want a certain distance to fit a moulding, then to the edge. Window and door schedules should list both nominal as well as rough in sizes, since they vary from maker to maker.

Last edited by MarkmillerConst; 02-02-2009 at 11:56 PM.
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Old 02-03-2009, 01:44 AM   #5
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Re: What's My Line?


measurements shouldn't stack. If you have each measurement on a particular wall from an origin point, such as the beginning of the wall, you just have to hook your tape and mark at each number, not work out what each number should be from the beginning of the wall or slide your tape each time.

Framing measurements should be to the face of the framing. It's an easier point to measure to than the middle of the wall. you can measure what it says on the plans, snap a line, and set a wall to it, not subtract or add half the thickness of the wall, ect.

If I got plans with stacked measurements and measurements to the middle of walls, the first thing I would do is sit down with the plans and a calculator and write the measurements so that they are easier to do layout off of.
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Old 02-03-2009, 02:40 AM   #6
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Re: What's My Line?


Face of Framing to Face of Framing. PLEASE specify type of wall in specification(WT-1, WT-2, etc..)..personally I prefer the specs to include not only what type of framing, but also type of insulation, spacing, thickness of GWB, etc..for bidding purposes not for layout. I chain any walls under 10'. So many archy's will either give the WT in the specs but not specify which is which on the drawing, or they have some WT appear out of the blue, thats not in the specs. OR my personal fav is when they had a WT prior to revisions & never delete it on the revised plans so myself or my estimators are searching for what seems like ever to find this mystery wall!!

Personally it helps me to compartmentalize everything, layout, framing, insulation, RC, HW-D, load bearing, shaft wall, fire rated, non structural interior, etc..etc.. etc.. from there it takes but a few minutes to imput sq/ft pricing for everything from 1,000-1,000,000sqft! If only it were always so easy to get to that point!

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Old 02-03-2009, 07:21 AM   #7
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Re: What's My Line?


I know you are asking about measurements, but let me throw in my pet peeve. Archys who have 6 pages of boilerplate remarks and not enough detail on the drawings. It takes a lot of time trying figure out whether the specs are boilerplate or custom on specific pages. I know how to build it and follow code, but when there is a lot of missing information on the drawing, its hard to know what is required.

Boilerplate doesn't always fit what is on the drawings and is many times in conflict with the drawings. I see insulation and window schedules in which the archy is too lazy to remove irrelevent items, they just line through them, and sometimes line through items that should have remained. All that stuff looks good to the customer as they think they are getting their moneys worth if there is a lot of remarks.
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Old 02-03-2009, 07:39 AM   #8
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Re: What's My Line?


Face to face. Please close the dimensions. I used to have to do this manually years back and was shocked that CAD does not mean all the dimensions close. Nothing is more frustrating than to find the dimension string you just used in communicating to a sub did not mirror the string elsewhere on the sheet.
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Old 02-03-2009, 07:57 AM   #9
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Re: What's My Line?


Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkmillerConst View Post
Start at one end of the building. Move to close edge of first wall. Face of framing is the industry standard. Keep moving from wall to wall consistently marking the same side of each consecutive wall. Label each wall studding, i.e. 2x4 2x6 etc.

Generally you give dimensions from origin to main measurements, and chain measure minor walls. If you can't do any math, put down your tape measure and pick up a shovel, because that is your only tool.

As for windows and doors, measure to what is critical. If you want to align centers with say an archway, then measure to center. If you want a certain distance to fit a moulding, then to the edge. Window and door schedules should list both nominal as well as rough in sizes, since they vary from maker to maker.
I agree. Our Architect does this, except he does not label wall sizes. The lines will just jump up and down, sometimes it looks like just so they will line up on paper!! I already know where the wet walls need to be but some of them look like they jump up to 2x6 for no real reason. Many times i have to scale any small closets where she can't fit a measurement.
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Old 02-03-2009, 08:02 AM   #10
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Re: What's My Line?


There must be a reason for the centerline measurements but I hate them. Please no center of the wall measurements.

When Cmu or precast walls are used for the exterior start your measurements on the inside of the wall. Subtracting 8" or 12" is a PITA.

The 3/16" Scale should be banned. I can't think of anyone ever carrying around a scale rule in the field.

If your going to cut and paste details from another job flip the detail image if necessary to fit the job.

I know you asked about measurements but you gave me a forum for my pet peeves. I could go on for a while.

It's good to see a draftsman that cares what matters to the men in the field. Keep up the good work.
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Old 02-03-2009, 08:15 AM   #11
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Re: What's My Line?


face of stud to face of stud

window and door openings dimension from the center

thank you for giving a sh*t, but to be honest we framers can make anything work.....
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Old 02-03-2009, 08:30 AM   #12
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Re: What's My Line?


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Originally Posted by bighammer View Post

thank you for giving a sh*t, but to be honest we framers can make anything work.....
You are correct Senior Hammer but don't EVER EVER tell them that.

This is the perfect time to let the notion most Archs have (that they are intellectually superior) work in our favor.

If they spend a few extra minutes behind the draft table it will save us hours in the feild.

Scorpio don't listen to the Hammer he knows not of what he speaks.

Anyone that didn't go to college is a complete moron and needs every detail spelled out in the prints or there will be complete chaos.
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Old 02-03-2009, 08:38 AM   #13
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Re: What's My Line?


Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkmillerConst View Post
Start at one end of the building. Move to close edge of first wall. Face of framing is the industry standard. Keep moving from wall to wall consistently marking the same side of each consecutive wall. Label each wall studding, i.e. 2x4 2x6 etc.

Generally you give dimensions from origin to main measurements, and chain measure minor walls. If you can't do any math, put down your tape measure and pick up a shovel, because that is your only tool.

As for windows and doors, measure to what is critical. If you want to align centers with say an archway, then measure to center. If you want a certain distance to fit a moulding, then to the edge. Window and door schedules should list both nominal as well as rough in sizes, since they vary from maker to maker.
Yuhuh,yusterdeh ican't spel framer now i r one!
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Old 02-03-2009, 04:58 PM   #14
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Re: What's My Line?


Quote:
Originally Posted by ScipioAfricanus View Post
I wasn't sure if this should go here or in the
Drafting & Cad section, but since I am asking framers this question,
well...here seems logical.

When you receive a set of plans for framing how do you prefer your
dimensions lines to be shown?

Exterior wall framing face to center line of interior walls?

Interior framing face of exterior walls to center or closest or farthest face of
interior walls?

Some other preferred method?

Also does anyone like to have all dimensions called out from one starting
point or the traditional way of the end of one dimension in a string is the
start of the next dimension?

One GC asked me to have the dimensions all start from the same point in a
string, (he said it was so his lead-man didn't have to do any math).

Center-line of windows and doors or to the rough-out?

This is an inquiry for residential & commercial, wood & steel framing.

Thanks guys (& some gals)

Andy.
You should either

a. make a checklist to hand to the GC of what he prefers or
b. decide what you want (with the input from here) to do and stick with it

Think about this example. If someone comes along and says "oh definitely,
sides of rough openings of doors and windows!" and that's what you stay
with, you will get some framers who build their door rough openings 2" wider
and some who build it 2" wider.

Now you have one of the two framers swearing at you "this guy, like all of
them don't know ****"

I'd personally say to center of door and window openings, and outside of
exterior wall to face of framing interior walls, doesn't matter which side. I
hate that mid of interior wall crap. Interior face of exterior wall....no,
absolutely not. I don't care who says yes, that's annoying. Maybe someone
has a reason they can explain why they like it that way.

Also, ditch the arrowheads, they're for leaders. Use architectural ticks or
preferably the oblique one.

I personally don't care for the baseline method of adding up the dimensions.

And not to be picky, but you meant to ask "where do you like your extension
lines referenced to?" Dimension lines are where the dimension is located.
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Old 02-03-2009, 08:58 PM   #15
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Re: What's My Line?


Quote:
And not to be picky, but you meant to ask "where do you like your extension
lines referenced to?" Dimension lines are where the dimension is located.
Thanks for the correction Framerman, (I mean that too).And thanks for the input.

Andy.
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Old 02-04-2009, 07:48 PM   #16
 
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Re: What's My Line?


A center point is much appreciated here. Lacks anbuguity
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Old 02-10-2009, 07:48 AM   #17
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Re: What's My Line?


Lead man that cant do math? Too funny.I prefer face to face. I agree that c/l is crap especially if some walls are 2x6 and some are 2x4.On a totally differant note have you guys ever gotten the old "reverse print" where the GC was too cheap to run a new set when lot conditions meant that house had to be flip flopped. Cant tell you how close we came sometimes to making mistakes with those.Haven't seen one in a while thank goodness.
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Old 02-11-2009, 02:19 AM   #18
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Re: What's My Line?


I ran a blueprint shop for years and had one developer that came in one time and asked if I could redraw all his dimesions on a set of flipped plans and make copies. Cheap a** was to tight to ask the the architect to redo them.

I use to love to read blueprints when they were hand drawn. They generally had more detail on them. Today they get spit out like Big Macs at McD's.

Oh, to get a set of prints with everything on em

Wall to wall
C/L on widows and doors
Arrows are for Engineering prefer ticks
Pet pieve Stacked up dimensions don't add up to the overall dimension.

Last edited by Hardly Working; 02-11-2009 at 02:26 AM.
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Old 02-11-2009, 08:59 AM   #19
 
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Re: What's My Line?


I have never built a 2 X 4 wall, To much of a pain ripping all those 1/2 inch strips and stapling them on. So please just give from outside to cen. and then cen. to cen. Windows and doors cen. also. Stairs, just admit you have no idea, maybe put a note it your drawings, something like add 500 bucks to have the stupid framer figure it out for me????
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Old 02-11-2009, 09:09 AM   #20
 
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Re: What's My Line?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Warren View Post
Lead man that cant do math? Too funny.I prefer face to face. I agree that c/l is crap especially if some walls are 2x6 and some are 2x4.On a totally differant note have you guys ever gotten the old "reverse print" where the GC was too cheap to run a new set when lot conditions meant that house had to be flip flopped. Cant tell you how close we came sometimes to making mistakes with those.Haven't seen one in a while thank goodness.
Answer to this one is a lazy boy recliner, 122 pack of bud light and lots of asperins, if you don't get the recliner more beer and pain killers!!! Holding that thing over your head all day is just to much for this old guy. If plan review is ever implemented every where then this silly stuff will stop, but until then, I recommend the recliner!!!

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