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U Ever Dealt With POS Scissor Trusses?

 
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Old 09-10-2006, 08:04 PM   #21
 
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Re: U Ever Dealt With POS Scissor Trusses?


the truss mfg they don't take the time to crown the lumber If they did then atlest they wood all be crooked in the same direction
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Old 09-10-2006, 08:41 PM   #22
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Re: U Ever Dealt With POS Scissor Trusses?


In my opinion, unless on a real nice home......you don't need to have an extremely strait roof(as far as crowning the trusses, yes it would be ncie, but....)......I mean, plywood will kinda span that stuff and make it look decent.....lol......depends on how fast you want to be.....fast usually isn't quality.
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Old 09-10-2006, 09:01 PM   #23
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Re: U Ever Dealt With POS Scissor Trusses?


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Originally Posted by Bradracer18 View Post
In my opinion, unless on a real nice home......you don't need to have an extremely strait roof(as far as crowning the trusses, yes it would be ncie, but....)......I mean, plywood will kinda span that stuff and make it look decent.....lol......depends on how fast you want to be.....fast usually isn't quality.

The error to your thinking there Brad is that trusses serve 2 functions, and if they are not true, the ceiling can look like hell...pole barns are one thing, new home construction is another. The reason I have blocked trusses, and I'm sure others have too, is to not only true up the trusses, but get the ceiling joists as perfect as possible, since with the open areas of many new home floor plans now, a flaw in the ceiling will show and really wreck otherwise good quality work.

Fast is great, but quality is as important as speed, IMO.
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Old 09-10-2006, 09:22 PM   #24
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Re: U Ever Dealt With POS Scissor Trusses?


Uhhhh.......Joasis.....I've built high dollar homes for about a year....so I do know a bit.......not much, but some........I think on a flat ceiling....I don't see where a problem would be, if you have good drywallers(well, good ones can fix about anything)......but in the vaults and such, that is where I like to keep a level handy(on the ceiling side) and a string line.....
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Old 09-10-2006, 09:38 PM   #25
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Re: U Ever Dealt With POS Scissor Trusses?


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Originally Posted by Bradracer18 View Post
In my opinion, unless on a real nice home......you don't need to have an extremely strait roof
If you were to frame a house, wouldn't you want the roof to lookgood no matter what the price of the home is?

What you said obviously means that the "Real Nice" homes gets more attention like a straighter roof. What kind of thinking is that?
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Old 09-11-2006, 06:19 AM   #26
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Re: U Ever Dealt With POS Scissor Trusses?


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If you were to frame a house, wouldn't you want the roof to lookgood no matter what the price of the home is?

What you said obviously means that the "Real Nice" homes gets more attention like a straighter roof. What kind of thinking is that?
Before everybody starts the high horse preaching let's just stop, this site already has a problem with "knights in shiney armor rising white stallions".

Joe I'm sure what Brad was getting at is what I'm sure we all have done, if building a project with a small budget there are naturally going to be things that although are not 100% correct, they will work so you let it fly. But when compared to a job with a big budget where a person should be more attentive to detail then some of those little things will not fly since your getting paid for a high end job.

High horse people say what you want, there is a difference in how you approach a project based on amount being spent-low ball customers do not get the extra 30 minutes pulling perfect lumber from a pile since they paid for cheap lumber, they get the best of the cheap lumber which we all know even being the best dont mean much
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Old 09-11-2006, 10:59 AM   #27
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Re: U Ever Dealt With POS Scissor Trusses?


Yes, that is exactly what I mean......Our work is usually top notch all the time, but when we can't fully control it(trusses, sometimes windows,etc).....then you might just let it go depending on the job.


Another reason for spending more time/detail on a high end job, is the "high end carpenters" will be coming after us(drywall, finish, floor, cabinets,etc)......

Hard to explain, but I fully understand what you mean Joe....we try our best....but sometimes you have to pick your battles...and hey, I'm only 21, so what do I honestly know......lol.
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Old 09-11-2006, 05:36 PM   #28
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Re: U Ever Dealt With POS Scissor Trusses?


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Before everybody starts the high horse preaching let's just stop, this site already has a problem with "knights in shiney armor rising white stallions".

Joe I'm sure what Brad was getting at is what I'm sure we all have done, if building a project with a small budget there are naturally going to be things that although are not 100% correct, they will work so you let it fly. But when compared to a job with a big budget where a person should be more attentive to detail then some of those little things will not fly since your getting paid for a high end job.

High horse people say what you want, there is a difference in how you approach a project based on amount being spent-low ball customers do not get the extra 30 minutes pulling perfect lumber from a pile since they paid for cheap lumber, they get the best of the cheap lumber which we all know even being the best dont mean much
I've never read a post more ridiculous than yours.

I can't even believe you wrote such horsesh!t!

I don't care what the job is and how much I'm getting paid for the job whether it's on a 100k house or a million dollar house, the quality of my work is the same.

If the customer is paying for the lumber, I order it and over order. If they send me garbage, I send it back and replace it and use the good stuff.

What the hell kind of contractor are you that will use lumber that's no good just because it's a low budget job??? Are you insane?!!!

You said, ""there is a difference in how you approach a project based on amount being spent-low ball customers do not get the extra 30 minutes pulling perfect lumber from a pile since they paid for cheap lumber, they get the best of the cheap lumber which we all know even being the best donít mean much""

That's pure BULLSH!T!!!

That's how you operate but no me!

So you do a job at a cheap price and the owner orders the lumber and its garbage, so you use it anyway because you don't spend any time picking through it but you will for Mr. and Mrs. Millionaire who's paying you good money.

You can call it what you want but my mind doesn't think like yours or never will think like yours. So, don't sit there and even try to tell me that I've done what you do because youíre dead wrong!


Who the hell are you to come here and tell me to stop with the high horse preaching garbage and then try and tell everyone that people do business like you and do **** work for people with less profitable jobs?

How friggen cheap are you working that you canít pick out straight lumber to nail up?

If you don't like doing a good quality job for someone, then don't work for them, Period!

You said what you had to say to me even though I didnít even post to you. Now I said what I had to say to you. You want to start any other nonsense talk than email me instead of doing it here next time.
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Old 09-11-2006, 05:51 PM   #29
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Re: U Ever Dealt With POS Scissor Trusses?


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Originally Posted by Bradracer18 View Post
Yes, that is exactly what I mean......Our work is usually top notch all the time, but when we can't fully control it(trusses, sometimes windows,etc).....then you might just let it go depending on the job.


Another reason for spending more time/detail on a high end job, is the "high end carpenters" will be coming after us(drywall, finish, floor, cabinets,etc)......

Hard to explain, but I fully understand what you mean Joe....we try our best....but sometimes you have to pick your battles...and hey, I'm only 21, so what do I honestly know......lol.
Bradracer,

With trusses you are stuck. If you got a bad shipment of trusses, would you send them back on the high end house? Would you use them on the low end house?

If your stick framing a job, you have control of what lumber you use, period! Do yourself a favor and no matter what price you work for, never stop the quality of your workmanship. You will stand out for that in the long run.

You said, "Another reason for spending more time/detail on a high end job, is the "high end carpenters" will be coming after us(drywall, finish, floor, cabinets,etc)."

I don't get that thinking there. You have the same people following you on a smaller low budget job also. Wouldnít you want any recommendations from the people on a low budget house? Wouldnít it be great for your company to here that the sheetrocker, trimmer kitchen installer spoke highly of you as the framer?

All these things happen. If youíre nailing up wall studs, ceiling joists, rafters with ĹĒ crowns in them because you didnít pick the good ones out and throw the bad ones out, all these subs will complain about the framer.

Wouldn't you want the people who own the house or the GC or Builder want to here all this and recommend you if you do a quality job?

I admire you at 21 to even be here and discussing these things, but donít think that you only have to do quality work for high end homes and worry about all the trades coming in after is only important for high end homes and no one else.
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Old 09-11-2006, 06:26 PM   #30
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Re: U Ever Dealt With POS Scissor Trusses?


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Originally Posted by Bradracer18 View Post
Hard to explain, but I fully understand what you mean Joe....we try our best....but sometimes you have to pick your battles...and hey, I'm only 21, so what do I honestly know......lol.

Not taking up the issue of experience per say, but Brad, there are a few of us who have been placing trusses long before you were even a twinkle in your Daddy's eye. The point to a forum is to share experiences and learn from others. I would hope you learn from this forum as well as contribute with your own experiences, as you gain the knowledge to become an excellent contractor or framer. I agree with Joe 100%...never sacrifice quality, no matter what the dollar value of the project.
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Old 09-11-2006, 06:29 PM   #31
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Re: U Ever Dealt With POS Scissor Trusses?


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Not taking up the issue of experience per say, but Brad, there are a few of us who have been placing trusses long before you were even a twinkle in your Daddy's eye. The point to a forum is to share experiences and learn from others. I would hope you learn from this forum as well as contribute with your own experiences, as you gain the knowledge to become an excellent contractor or framer. I agree with Joe 100%...never sacrifice quality, no matter what the dollar value of the project.
Or as I like to say, "Daddy's little squirt."
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Old 09-11-2006, 07:16 PM   #32
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Re: U Ever Dealt With POS Scissor Trusses?


For sake of argument joe here's a quick example. You bid building a closet. You bid it 2 ways:

1-the premium way with class A $4/studs

2-the standard construction lumber at $1.99 board

but it goes well beyond just studs, it goes into the job scopes for what that particular customer can afford....not me!! I am not paying to remodel someone else's home-the CUSTOMER IS PAYING so no matter what you think, you are bound by THEIR BUDGET as to what goes and what does'nt.

Buying all premium materials will blow out 80% of all our customers budgets for materials alone...not including labor/supplies/etc....I know where your at and the jobs you do there is never a entry grade, or mid grade....you deal 100% in top notch best of the best materials in EVERY job right??? So your waaaay above most of us and are able to look down from your pedistal-congratulations for getting yourself to that point. For now, like most guys, I have to work within budget constraints and often times ipgrading to premium products is just not feasiable for them-hence sacrifices are made. We just do the best job we can with the products we have to work with....part of the sacrifice in life. But since you have never dealt with typical homeowners in the blue collar community you cannot relate....least if/when I get half as good as you I will have roots and be able to realte on every level and not just a gold lined pedistal with a silver spoon.
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Old 09-11-2006, 07:46 PM   #33
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Re: U Ever Dealt With POS Scissor Trusses?


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Originally Posted by IHI View Post
For sake of argument joe here's a quick example. You bid building a closet. You bid it 2 ways:

1-the premium way with class A $4/studs

2-the standard construction lumber at $1.99 board

but it goes well beyond just studs, it goes into the job scopes for what that particular customer can afford....not me!! I am not paying to remodel someone else's home-the CUSTOMER IS PAYING so no matter what you think, you are bound by THEIR BUDGET as to what goes and what does'nt.

Buying all premium materials will blow out 80% of all our customers budgets for materials alone...not including labor/supplies/etc....I know where your at and the jobs you do there is never a entry grade, or mid grade....you deal 100% in top notch best of the best materials in EVERY job right??? So your waaaay above most of us and are able to look down from your pedistal-congratulations for getting yourself to that point. For now, like most guys, I have to work within budget constraints and often times ipgrading to premium products is just not feasiable for them-hence sacrifices are made. We just do the best job we can with the products we have to work with....part of the sacrifice in life. But since you have never dealt with typical homeowners in the blue collar community you cannot relate....least if/when I get half as good as you I will have roots and be able to realte on every level and not just a gold lined pedistal with a silver spoon.

Why would I bid a closet two ways using cheap grade materials? I’ve never heard of that.

The same material gets used for people who I do 5000.00 additions for or people who I do 50.000.00 additions for.

What the hell are you talking about?

""But since you have never dealt with typical homeowners in the blue collar community you cannot relate....least if/when I get half as good as you I will have roots and be able to relate on every level and not just a gold lined pedestal with a silver spoon.""

Again, just like your other post, your talking out of your a$$. You have no idea what you're talking about!

Who do you really think that you are? You are dreaming!

I work with homeowners in the blue collar community every day, but I give them the same quality as anyone else. That's the difference between you and me.

You’re the Hack Contractor that will give people in the blue collar community a poor quality job in your eyes because they can't afford the materials or their budget is so low that you will work for them and perform piss poor work and nail up every single piece of garbage lumber on their homes and not spend time searching through to find good lumber. You’re a friggen Pure Hack! Not a Professional!

You’re a hack just like the rest of them and you’re trying to get people to believe that you have to lower your standards for blue collar people. Brilliant! You’re in a class all by yourself. You're definitely a waste of time! .That's probably how you sell yourself to them by giving them poor grade materials while the good guys wouldn't even recommend them and they'll have nothing but problems in the long run, but you'll be gone by then

If me treating everyone of my customers no matter whom they are with the same respect and quality puts me on a pedestal, then I love being there!
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Old 09-11-2006, 08:23 PM   #34
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Re: U Ever Dealt With POS Scissor Trusses?


You know Joe, it's fine to disagree or even argue to a certain extent. But I believe personal attacts like you made are over the edge. I know when I was attacked like that when I first came to this board, it hurt like hell. I have gotten over it and now joke about it, but none-the-less, I believe personal attacks like that are uncalled for. JMO
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Old 09-11-2006, 09:06 PM   #35
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Re: U Ever Dealt With POS Scissor Trusses?


Maj, he can personal attack all he wants, I could care less-really!! Everybody is an internet wizard behind a keyboard with a holyier than thou attitude. Fact of the matter is, I have bills to pay, men to pay, and a family to provide for. Wish every customer I bid for could afford top notch materials, but in the real world that will never happen-in this area I should say, Joe's obviously working in the Hamptons where price is not an object and overpaying is a sign of status . Joe has carved a niche for himself, obviously marketing nothing but high end everything, and if he does'nt win the bid then the one he does is so over inflated it makes up for the 20-30 he loses.

I have'nt carved that niche yet so I have to bid according to market to keep spreading the name. If all I did was bid things as I would personally like to do with no budget constraints, all that would lead to is a dead phone and no leads....other than people saying dont call Josh, he's waaay over priced. In this area there are a very slim select few that will pay for quality everything-including top notch materials out of the platinum pile of lumber, fixtures, flooring, etc...the other 90% can only afford mid grade to low grade since it will be better than what they currecntly have so in their eye's it's what they can afford and is better than what they have, even though they dream of premium products-they literally cannot afford them.

Guess I'llgo back to dreaming of having bottomless wallet customers like Joe has since Joe thinks top notch materials will create top notch workmanship...even though I and I'm sure plenty of other's have seen otherwise. Give the best guy in the world **** to work with and it will turn out better than the idiot that uses the top shelf products

Have another drink Joe...your on a roll buddy!!
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Old 09-11-2006, 09:43 PM   #36
 
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Re: U Ever Dealt With POS Scissor Trusses?


I hope I didn't start this
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Old 09-11-2006, 09:47 PM   #37
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Re: U Ever Dealt With POS Scissor Trusses?


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I hope I didn't start this
oh no, some guys just look for any opportunity to try and raise the pedistal they stand on all I can think of a paper pushing joe that has never been in the feild but can tell others how it should be and has never dealt with reality...things aint always gonna be like Joe's world.
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Old 09-12-2006, 07:07 AM   #38
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Re: U Ever Dealt With POS Scissor Trusses?


Quote:
Originally Posted by IHI View Post
Before everybody starts the high horse preaching let's just stop, this site already has a problem with "knights in shiney armor rising white stallions".

Joe I'm sure what Brad was getting at is what I'm sure we all have done, if building a project with a small budget there are naturally going to be things that although are not 100% correct, they will work so you let it fly. But when compared to a job with a big budget where a person should be more attentive to detail then some of those little things will not fly since your getting paid for a high end job.

High horse people say what you want, there is a difference in how you approach a project based on amount being spent-low ball customers do not get the extra 30 minutes pulling perfect lumber from a pile since they paid for cheap lumber, they get the best of the cheap lumber which we all know even being the best dont mean much

Hey Josh,

That was your post to me that started this. Read it again and again!

You should've never posted that because youíre the one trying to tell people that this is normal practice. It's not in my world, maybe in yours.

This is my main argument with you!

You said, ""Everybody is an internet wizard behind a keyboard with a holyier than thou attitude. Fact of the matter is, I have bills to pay, men to pay, and a family to provide for. Wish every customer I bid for could afford top notch materials, but in the real world that will never happen-in this area I should say, Joe's obviously working in the Hamptons where price is not an object and overpaying is a sign of status . Joe has carved a niche for himself, obviously marketing nothing but high end everything, and if he does'nt win the bid then the one he does is so over inflated it makes up for the 20-30 he loses.""

Yes, youíre the only one who has bills to pay and provide for a family, right? What's the matter, you can start with me with all this high horse garbage and when I call you a hack you can't take it?

Anyone who would say what you said above about not taking the time out to pull nice lumber only on a low budget job to me is a hack.

Next time don't attack me with a post like that.

You keep saying that all I do is work in high end homes and it's simply not true.

I work on the same homes you do from working plans designed by Architects that speck all the lumber. We have to bid that way. I never once saw a set of plans with anything other than Doug Fir, so that's what we use. We don't offer the people a cheaper grade of framing material.

So you have to understand that this is what we do around here. You probably don't even work with Architectural plans and you pick your own grade of lumber and get away with it, maybe because things don't get inspected or maybe they do and they pass.

For me, asking people if I could give them a cheaper grade lumber isn't an option.

Even if I did give them a cheaper grade lumber, I would still sight it and nail up straight boards no matter what the job cost is. You have to stop with the holier-than-thou stuff.

Thatís the furthest thing from my mind. I would never think that. You think that because I use better grade framing material and you donít.
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Old 09-12-2006, 07:11 AM   #39
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Re: U Ever Dealt With POS Scissor Trusses?


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You know Joe, it's fine to disagree or even argue to a certain extent. But I believe personal attacts like you made are over the edge. I know when I was attacked like that when I first came to this board, it hurt like hell. I have gotten over it and now joke about it, but none-the-less, I believe personal attacks like that are uncalled for. JMO
Maj,

Is it because I called him a Hack?

Well, if so. IMO anyone who performs lower standards of work on someone's home who can't take the time to look through a lumber pile and nail up straight lumber is a hack.

It has nothing to do with the grade of lumber. If Josh can use a cheaper grade framing material then fine, but he can still nail up nice lumber for his customer, no matter what!
This sight has a lot of good contractors here. I doubt anyone of them would lack quality for a job no matter what the cost was. They would sight through framing material and install good stuff.
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Old 09-12-2006, 10:08 AM   #40
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Re: U Ever Dealt With POS Scissor Trusses?


Joe, I'm not taking any of this personally no matter what my posts state or how they're percieved. I'm simply stating that while we'd all love to do nothing but high end work with top notch products-which even then you can have probelms you do the best with what you have...and job budget plays largely into what type of materials are used for a job.

I think one thing I should state is at our mom and pop lumber yard I frequent and the 3 local homecenters there are 2 distinct piles of lumber-namely studs for example. There is the premium pile and the standard pile. I cannot bid a low budget job using materials that literally cost double of what good lumber sells for...it's our job as contractors to help the customer make purchasing descions and try to give them the best finished product within their budget. I could literally go through 2-3 racks of newly bundled never band broken pile of good grade studs to find 20 perfect boards...by perfect I mean no cupping, no twists/crooks, no bark, no bark edges, etc...a perfectly true board like you get in a premium pile literally just taking off the top. When specing out good/economy grade we will sift through and chose the best we can get frmo that pile to make our lives easier on the job site later, but these economy grade studs will never reach the level of perfection the preimum at double the cost provide, so you comprimise, do the best you can with what you have to work with-just like every job ever performed-best you can with what you have to work with and it's always a budget thing that compromises a project not lack of effort on the builders ability.

Anybody that argues that has never dealt with customers and never worked in the feild. I literally can count on 1 hand the customers that say price is not an issue, build it like you'd do your own home...everybody else has serious budget restrictions we must take into account; and I for one could not pay the bills or feed my family off 5 customers in a 12yr span where price was'nt an issue, and I dont think anybody else could either. We all do the best we can with what we have to work with and that is that. You say hack, I say working within the market, we appraoch every job no matter if it's low grade material or premium stuff...we do the best we can with what we have to work with and sometimes comprimises have to be made to accomodate.

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