TJI Floor Joist Question - Framing - Contractor Talk

TJI Floor Joist Question

 
 
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Old 01-21-2010, 11:40 PM  
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TJI Floor Joist Question


I am going to start a custom house and the home owner wants the floor joists flush with the pressure treated plates which would be fine but he does not want to use hangers. so i will use post and beam's at the ends by the concrete walls and solid block above the beams. So my question is has any one done this be for and is there ant thing that i need to do other then what i am doing ? thanks for the info and help..
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Old 01-21-2010, 11:48 PM  
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Re: TJI Floor Joist Question


i have done this on several occasions for one gc who thinks hangers will skeak its just a matter of time. I run 4X pt material against foundo off post. I prefer hangers if installed right and the joist are installed right ive never ever (crosses fingers) had a problem. alot more time and money. Shoot your plates make sure there level and flat best method. Put rim on your beams first 1/2 in off wall. Eliminates a million blocks that WILL squeak

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Old 01-22-2010, 12:21 AM  
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Re: TJI Floor Joist Question


Where are you at in the design stage?

I have never done what you mentioned, I don't see the point though. If hangers are used with a gap between the joist and concrete, hanger tight around the joist, with glue, then you should never have a problem with squeaks.
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Old 01-22-2010, 12:25 AM  
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Re: TJI Floor Joist Question


Where are you at in the design stage?

I have never done what you mentioned, I don't see the point though. If hangers are used with a gap between the joist and concrete, hanger tight around the joist, with glue, then you should never have a problem with squeaks.



I THINK SO TO BUT IT IS THE HOME OWNER THAT WABTS IT THIS WAY ? OUT OF MY CONTROL..
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Old 01-22-2010, 12:54 AM  
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Re: TJI Floor Joist Question


lol o.k, but what about the design? Do you already have a design for using a beam and just want to know how to put it together or what? Or do you already have a design for using hangers but want to know how to change the design to a beam instead? And where did the design come from? You, architect, home owner, catalog?
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Old 01-22-2010, 01:00 AM  
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Re: TJI Floor Joist Question


lol o.k, but what about the design? Do you already have a design for using a beam and just want to know how to put it together or what? Or do you already have a design for using hangers but want to know how to change the design to a beam instead? And where did the design come from? You, architect, home owner, catalog?


The plan calls out for hangers but the home owner wants the post and beams.. I was just hopeing that some one would say that i could not do it that way. lol lol I would rather use hangers ... thanks..
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Old 01-22-2010, 01:09 AM  
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Re: TJI Floor Joist Question


Then I would quote the homeowner a price for architecture fees to change the design, permit fees to have the plans re-submitted and stamped approved. Then explain to him once you have that, you will have to write up a quote for the difference in cost for all the extra beams, posts, concrete, and labor putting it all together. Give him a ballpark figure for that before you change the design.

And then give him the option of using hangers, leaving a small gap to the concrete, with the hangers in tight, with glue. Compare those two costs for him and I bet he'll reconsider. Can't tell the customer "No", but you can give them the different options until they realize it for themselves how dumb it is. Good luck.
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Old 01-22-2010, 01:19 AM  
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Re: TJI Floor Joist Question


I much rather prefer to use hangers as well, and a HUGE drop of glue in the hanger base prevents floor squeaks!

Also, i never nail the "I's" down to the poly walls, it's the wood to metal contact that creates squeaks, right? Besides, nails actually split the grain of the Flanges. I only nail "squash blocks" down to the plates for lateral transfer below bearing points.

All you really have to do is frame the pony's 1/16-1/8" higher than the exterior, the weight of the house will hold the floor down, ya know?

Been doing this for years and NEVER got a call-back yet!

The local Building Inspector's are okay with this as well.


It is still advisable to consult with your Sales Rep and check your Local Building Codes before doing this though!!!

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Last edited by WallMonkey; 01-22-2010 at 01:52 AM.
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Old 01-22-2010, 01:28 AM  
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Re: TJI Floor Joist Question


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Originally Posted by WallMonkey View Post
Also, i never nail the "I's" down to the poly walls, it's the wood to metal contact the creates squeaks, right?
That's a good point I forgot to mention. I remember having to go back into houses to cut those specific nails out, they force the joists down but they also cause squeaks.
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Old 01-22-2010, 07:13 AM  
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Re: TJI Floor Joist Question


Quote:
Originally Posted by topdog View Post
I am going to start a custom house and the home owner wants the floor joists flush with the pressure treated plates which would be fine but he does not want to use hangers. so i will use post and beam's at the ends by the concrete walls and solid block above the beams. So my question is has any one done this be for and is there ant thing that i need to do other then what i am doing ? thanks for the info and help..
Use 12" block below grade and 8" block above grade and you have a 4" shelf with j-bolts and you put pt sills on the shelf. We do this all the time with low grade and the joists are inside the block flush with the top of the pt sills exactly like your saying. No need for any beams and hangers. Since he wants to change things he can ask the Architect to make this change with the block.
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Old 01-22-2010, 07:54 AM  
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Re: TJI Floor Joist Question


How do subs run mechanicals from basement/crawlspace up thru walls?
I can see a battle with the subs fighting for whatever space is available
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Old 01-22-2010, 09:26 AM  
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Re: TJI Floor Joist Question


Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Carola View Post
Use 12" block below grade and 8" block above grade and you have a 4" shelf with j-bolts and you put pt sills on the shelf. We do this all the time with low grade and the joists are inside the block flush with the top of the pt sills exactly like your saying. No need for any beams and hangers. Since he wants to change things he can ask the Architect to make this change with the block.

Joe,

The OP is in Stanwood WA. That's west coast siesmic zone. No block. I have never seen a block foundation built in Washington younger than the 1950's.
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Old 01-22-2010, 09:28 AM  
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Re: TJI Floor Joist Question


Post and beam is the quickest, easiest least expensive method for the home owner and to switch to. I looked at lumber and hanger prices and with labor being about the same its about a wash. Id start out right with the homeowner, all arguing does is make them short pay in the end.
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Old 01-22-2010, 03:31 PM  
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Re: TJI Floor Joist Question


If hes not completely sold on tjis you could get dropped floor trusses with top chord bearing. Much easier for you and believe it or not these make solid floors.
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Old 01-22-2010, 03:34 PM  
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Re: TJI Floor Joist Question


What height are the tjis?
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Old 01-22-2010, 09:32 PM  
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Re: TJI Floor Joist Question


STOP do not do anything without a engineered drawing.

In Washington state, the first thing the inspector is going to ask for when you call for a floor framing inspection, is the engineered drawings from the TJI manufacturer. If they do not match you will fail inspection until you have the TJI manufacturers engineer or another engineers OK and new drawings.

So go to the manufacturer of the TJI's and see if they will design this for you.

Last edited by Kgmz; 01-22-2010 at 09:34 PM.
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Old 01-23-2010, 11:06 PM  
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Re: TJI Floor Joist Question


we are framing a house right now that is like this. foundation guy poured a concrete wall with "brick ledge" on the inside. pretty simple.
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Old 01-24-2010, 12:07 AM  
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Re: TJI Floor Joist Question


We do a fair amount of foundations like the one Joe drew...out of block, but that can be done poured as well...it does create some problems with ducts, wiring, plumbing, etc. but with foresight these are kept to a minimum...we have strict height restrictions on houses, and many designers have utilized this method to buy the extra 8 or 10 inches...
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Old 01-24-2010, 12:46 AM  
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Re: TJI Floor Joist Question


Quote:
Originally Posted by topdog View Post
I am going to start a custom house and the home owner wants the floor joists flush with the pressure treated plates which would be fine but he does not want to use hangers. so i will use post and beam's at the ends by the concrete walls and solid block above the beams. So my question is has any one done this be for and is there ant thing that i need to do other then what i am doing ? thanks for the info and help..

Not to hijack but, I've reread this several times and I can't figure out what the point of doing this is?
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Old 01-24-2010, 01:13 AM  
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Re: TJI Floor Joist Question


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Originally Posted by hughjazz View Post
Not to hijack but, I've reread this several times and I can't figure out what the point of doing this is?
I agree, what is the owner tryng to acheive here?

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