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Saltbox Garage Roof Frame?

 
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Old 12-02-2009, 05:54 AM   #1
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Saltbox Garage Roof Frame?


Can I attach the second floor joists to the long rafter on a saltbox garage?
The front of the garage has two doors and the rear slopes down to a lower wall.
Seems like it would be a lot of weight on rafters, but I want the saltbox style.
Any help on this?
Thanks
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Old 12-02-2009, 07:15 AM   #2
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Re: Saltbox Garage Roof Frame?


What is the span of the building?
What is the pitch of the roof?
What size are the rafters?
What size is the ridge?
Are the plate heights the same height?
At what height do you want to set the floor beams?
What size floor beams will you be using?
How much headroom will you have left over?

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Last edited by festerized; 12-02-2009 at 07:20 AM.
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Old 12-02-2009, 11:47 PM   #3
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Re: Saltbox Garage Roof Frame?


Quote:
Originally Posted by festerized View Post
What is the span of the building?
What is the pitch of the roof?
What size are the rafters?
What size is the ridge?
Are the plate heights the same height?
At what height do you want to set the floor beams?
What size floor beams will you be using?
How much headroom will you have left over?
Hello festerized
The span is 26'
Rafters are 2"x10"
Ridge is 2"x12"
Plates are different heights, facing gable end there will only be a 3' entrance door and small windows. the rear wall (opposite the large garage door side will be 7' @top of plates.
Front wall has overhead doors 10' high and room above that for 16" Glue lam or headers.
Floor system will be 16" I joists clear span on top of the glue lam.
. Rafters to be supported by knee walls on second floor where needed.
Headroom will be at least 7' using 10/12 or 12/12 pitch.

This is the general design I want in a salt box frame.
How much can the 2x10 rafters hold at the connection,and what is a good way to make this rafter/floor intersection strong?
Thanks
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Old 12-07-2009, 07:38 PM   #4
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Re: Saltbox Garage Roof Frame?


festerized

Have I answered your questions?
Can you help me with this project?
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Old 12-07-2009, 07:49 PM   #5
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Re: Saltbox Garage Roof Frame?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Dog Dan View Post
Can I attach the second floor joists to the long rafter on a saltbox garage?

No... no.... no.

I really did read all your info, but don't get it. Is it for storage? Why not a truss?
How wide is the span the otherway?

As you describe, it would need a beam under that end
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Old 12-07-2009, 08:10 PM   #6
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Re: Saltbox Garage Roof Frame?


don't spike your floor joists to rafters if you have actual floor load on them. header them off just like timeless suggested.
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Old 12-07-2009, 08:40 PM   #7
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Re: Saltbox Garage Roof Frame?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Dog Dan View Post
Hello festerized
The span is 26'
Rafters are 2"x10"
Ridge is 2"x12"
Plates are different heights, facing gable end there will only be a 3' entrance door and small windows. the rear wall (opposite the large garage door side will be 7' @top of plates.
Front wall has overhead doors 10' high and room above that for 16" Glue lam or headers.
Floor system will be 16" I joists clear span on top of the glue lam.
. Rafters to be supported by knee walls on second floor where needed.
Headroom will be at least 7' using 10/12 or 12/12 pitch.

This is the general design I want in a salt box frame.
How much can the 2x10 rafters hold at the connection,and what is a good way to make this rafter/floor intersection strong?
Thanks
Back wall is 7' You said the front door is 10'. How tall is the front wall?

Who has partially designed this so far?
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Old 12-07-2009, 09:21 PM   #8
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Re: Saltbox Garage Roof Frame?


Has anyone posting on this thread ever built a salt box garage?
The design is my own,and I am trying to use two 12'wide firehouse doors. The local fire department gave me their doors after buying new ones for the station.
I can build to the door sizes or make them shorter as I have decided. I will only use 10' of the 2' sections. (I have enough to build two large overhead doors 12'x 14'.
I understand you ClemS when you say use a header, but where do I support it?
It is not for storage Timeless, I will use it for a shop/woodworking area. I know I can buy a truss with area for shop, but I want more than is available using a truss system.
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Old 12-08-2009, 05:22 PM   #9
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Re: Saltbox Garage Roof Frame?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Dog Dan View Post
Has anyone posting on this thread ever built a salt box garage?
Yes, but not like your talking about. I've always framed them with joists sitting on the short wall and the front wall being the same size as the short wall with another wall above that. Then the room sits above with the joist having full bearing on the short walls.


Quote:
It is not for storage Timeless, I will use it for a shop/woodworking area. .
You want living space above for a shop, right? What is the height of the front wall?




Quote:
Front wall has overhead doors 10' high and room above that for 16" Glue lam or headers.
Does that mean 10' + 16" (glulam) and 3" two top plates = 11'7" for the front wall, or no top plates?

Quote:
Floor system will be 16" I joists clear span on top of the glue lam.
You have to be careful with that because after you layout the rafter, the HAP cut will not be 16" high. You will have to cut a slash cut on the 16" I-joists and there is a certain amount you are aloud to cut.


Quote:
Rafters to be supported by knee walls on second floor where needed.
Headroom will be at least 7' using 10/12 or 12/12 pitch.
What pitch do you want? I can show you what your HAP cuts will be.
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Old 12-08-2009, 09:51 PM   #10
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Re: Saltbox Garage Roof Frame?


Thanks Joe
I am exhausted from a 14 hr. day
I will get back
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Old 12-09-2009, 01:41 PM   #11
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Re: Saltbox Garage Roof Frame?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Carola View Post
Yes, but not like your talking about. I've always framed them with joists sitting on the short wall and the front wall being the same size as the short wall with another wall above that. Then the room sits above with the joist having full bearing on the short walls.




You want living space above for a shop, right? What is the height of the front wall?






Does that mean 10' + 16" (glulam) and 3" two top plates = 11'7" for the front wall, or no top plates

Garage door are 10' high then a header of 2x10 on top of that will be a 16" rim joist where the I joists die into.
Floor to bottom of I joists will be 12'1 1/4"

2nd floor begins on top of this. I want a 10 pitch=40 degrees on the long slope of the roof and maybe the same for the front shorter roo
f.




You have to be careful with that because after you layout the rafter, the HAP cut will not be 16" high. You will have to cut a slash cut on the 16" I-joists and there is a certain amount you are aloud to cut.




What pitch do you want? I can show you what your HAP cuts will be.
HAP cuts? Do you mean Hip and Pitch?

I do not think I can use this system. To connect from one high wall to a lower wall using floor joists or I joists, will mean the joists will have to run into the rafters at the cross point of the two.
If indeed I make the front and rear wall the same height,can I just offset the ridge to make the front side (garage doors side) shorter?
I wanted to have maybe 4' overhang above the garage doors also.
I wish I could find some frame photos. Seems like there are no images of framework for this to be found.
Any suggestions on where I could see some images of garage framework in the saltbox style?
Thanks
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Old 12-09-2009, 03:47 PM   #12
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Re: Saltbox Garage Roof Frame?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Dog Dan View Post
HAP cuts? Do you mean Hip and Pitch?

I do not think I can use this system. To connect from one high wall to a lower wall using floor joists or I joists, will mean the joists will have to run into the rafters at the cross point of the two.
If indeed I make the front and rear wall the same height,can I just offset the ridge to make the front side (garage doors side) shorter?
I wanted to have maybe 4' overhang above the garage doors also.
I wish I could find some frame photos. Seems like there are no images of framework for this to be found.
Any suggestions on where I could see some images of garage framework in the saltbox style?
Thanks
HAP, height above plate, has to do with the rafter's seat cut.

Is this more or less the "salt box garage" you are describing?
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Saltbox Garage roof frame?-sbg.jpg  

Last edited by Birch; 12-09-2009 at 03:55 PM.
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Old 12-09-2009, 04:27 PM   #13
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Re: Saltbox Garage Roof Frame?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Dog Dan View Post
HAP cuts? Do you mean Hip and Pitch?

I do not think I can use this system. To connect from one high wall to a lower wall using floor joists or I joists, will mean the joists will have to run into the rafters at the cross point of the two.
If indeed I make the front and rear wall the same height,can I just offset the ridge to make the front side (garage doors side) shorter?
I wanted to have maybe 4' overhang above the garage doors also.
I wish I could find some frame photos. Seems like there are no images of framework for this to be found.
Any suggestions on where I could see some images of garage framework in the saltbox style?
Thanks
I drew the front with a 3' kneewall and 4' overhang I'll draw it with a 5' kneewall. The back has a 16" overhang.
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Old 12-09-2009, 05:17 PM   #14
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Re: Saltbox Garage Roof Frame?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Carola View Post
I drew the front with a 3' kneewall and 4' overhang I'll draw it with a 5' kneewall. The back has a 16" overhang.
Joe,

That makes more sense to me!
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Old 12-09-2009, 07:06 PM   #15
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Re: Saltbox Garage Roof Frame?


A true Saltbox is 2 stories with a 1 story lean-to on the side.

But here is a quick drawing showing a 1 story garage with 12' walls and with 12/12 pitch attic space, and a lean-to with a 7' wall. The main garage space is 20' deep + the 6' lean-to area.

The floor above is held up with a glu-lam beam and depending on the distance can be a free span or a post may be needed in the middle. Also the collar tie shown in the attic is set at a 8' height.


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Old 12-09-2009, 07:24 PM   #16
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Re: Saltbox Garage Roof Frame?


Here's how it looks with the 5' kneewall.
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Old 12-09-2009, 07:43 PM   #17
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Re: Saltbox Garage Roof Frame?


Joe what keeps the knee wall from thrusting out? LVL ridge? My ex chiropractor had this done about 15 years ago(i lost out to a two phone bidding war) where the guy used a let in ledger strip instead of the knee wall. Over every garage door the wall was tipped out slightly. on the order of two inches.
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Old 12-09-2009, 07:48 PM   #18
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Re: Saltbox Garage Roof Frame?


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Joe what keeps the knee wall from thrusting out? LVL ridge? My ex chiropractor had this done about 15 years ago(i lost out to a two phone bidding war) where the guy used a let in ledger strip instead of the knee wall. Over every garage door the wall was tipped out slightly. on the order of two inches.
The kneewall sits on the top plate of the 12' 1-1/4" wall and gets nailed into the side of the joists and you can either use a ridge beam or collar tires set at the proper height so the wall doesn't kick out.
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Old 12-09-2009, 08:40 PM   #19
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Re: Saltbox Garage Roof Frame?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kgmz View Post

I must admit this is the way I would do it, the kneewall adds an unnecessary hinge point, and this way would be most effective, since you can't build an interior load bearing wall to hold up the back side of the second story, a LVL or sort span across the back distance would be the best bet. As long as the span wasn't TOO much, however I think I would span beam under the joist into the wall, if possible, and run the joist into the rafters tying them into the rafters with face nailing, to add some stability in the floor and roof.
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Old 12-09-2009, 10:23 PM   #20
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Re: Saltbox Garage Roof Frame?


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I must admit this is the way I would do it, the kneewall adds an unnecessary hinge point, .
No it doesn't when it's framed right. I've framed many additions this way to match the existing houses that are built this way. The kneewalls don't go anywhere. No unnecessary hinge point at all.

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