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Roof Framing On Ground

 
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Old 06-15-2015, 11:38 PM   #1
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Roof Framing On Ground


Anybody have any experience framing sections of roof on the ground, then booming them up on the top plates?
A company in the town i live and work in has started doing this and seems to be working for them.. Like i mean, trusses, sheathing, shingles and fascia board. Obviously limited to weight / lifting capacity of the crane...
I see the obvious safety benefits, and the convenience of not working 20 ft plus in the air.. But you would require a perfectly flat level surface to build on, and there is really no room for error..
Just wondering if any of you guys had experience or use this method regularly..
Thanks for your time!
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Old 06-16-2015, 12:12 AM   #2
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Re: Roof Framing On Ground


Definitely doable for a smaller roof with not too many jogs, couple of extra floor trusses or I joists can be a quick flat template of actual housewalls to build section on. Never done more than just sheathing myself though. Timewise it has never been faster to do it this way either.

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Old 06-16-2015, 12:37 AM   #3
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Re: Roof Framing On Ground


Works for me when we've got the room for trusses. We just add the sub fascia and ridge blocking, and find no need to be particular with square/level; everything moves easy enough when you get it up on the wall plates
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Old 06-16-2015, 05:14 AM   #4
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Re: Roof Framing On Ground


Every house or block of towns we do that makes sense for we do. Anything 3 stories up we always do.
Just a couple for reference for you.

Roof Framing on ground-imageuploadedbytapatalk1434449503.062579.jpgRoof Framing on ground-imageuploadedbytapatalk1434449526.812929.jpgRoof Framing on ground-imageuploadedbytapatalk1434449566.297727.jpgRoof Framing on ground-imageuploadedbytapatalk1434449595.369342.jpgRoof Framing on ground-imageuploadedbytapatalk1434449625.718695.jpg
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Roof Framing on ground-imageuploadedbytapatalk1434449547.477986.jpg  
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Old 06-16-2015, 05:37 PM   #5
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Re: Roof Framing On Ground


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Originally Posted by kyle_dmr View Post
Every house or block of towns we do that makes sense for we do. Anything 3 stories up we always do.
Just a couple for reference for you.

Attachment 194418Attachment 194426Attachment 194442Attachment 194450Attachment 194458
Ever have problems with it fitting? If so how do you bypass them?
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Old 06-16-2015, 05:54 PM   #6
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Re: Roof Framing On Ground


Don't screw up. It's a lot of work to fix. Or use the boom to move stuff
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Old 06-16-2015, 09:57 PM   #7
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Re: Roof Framing On Ground


Quote:
Originally Posted by kyle_dmr View Post
Every house or block of towns we do that makes sense for we do. Anything 3 stories up we always do.
Just a couple for reference for you.

Attachment 194418Attachment 194426Attachment 194442Attachment 194450Attachment 194458
Just curious; what's your decision process for sheeting or not sheeting on the ground?
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Old 06-17-2015, 07:52 PM   #8
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Re: Roof Framing On Ground


Complexity of the roof, usually capacity of the crane. I try to lift whatever we can with the boom instead of calling a crane. A 16' package of 45' long trusses adds up a lot of weight very quickly.
Staging area is a very big key. Unless I know I can setup flat and level and able to square up I generally sheet in place.
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Old 06-17-2015, 08:22 PM   #9
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Re: Roof Framing On Ground


wow, I have never done that much pre frame roof.

I've done 3,4 maybe 5 trusses to get the ends and overhangs done. but never a whole roof section. That would be an expensive accident if something broke.

Nice work, must be a lot of pre-planning..
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Old 06-25-2015, 09:30 PM   #10
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Re: Roof Framing On Ground


We are doing our first job like this on a farm shop now on Monday. It's a thickened edge slab so we built the roof on the slab first and moved it off for building the walls. It's not very common in our area to do it this way due to the lack of cranes around, but this job has tight working conditions and pretty much the only way to do it is craning the roof on.

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Old 06-25-2015, 11:17 PM   #11
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Re: Roof Framing On Ground


We just did our new shop like this. 50'x70'. I think we did it in 5 lifts. We didn't sheet till it was up. We could have gone with fewer lifts because they sent a 100ton crane but we were already framed for a smaller crane. Really saved on crane time and so much easier to do gables and soffit blocking and all that I the ground.
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Old 07-20-2015, 10:55 PM   #12
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Re: Roof Framing On Ground


I do it all the time. You just have to know when its more efficient to do on the ground. This was a 10/12 on the second story. I did the overframe on the ground and left pieces un nailed so that i could lift the roof in 3 smaller sections. Its easy if youre a pro framer
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Old 07-24-2015, 11:53 AM   #13
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Re: Roof Framing On Ground


Kyle
Ever done a comparison of man hours on one of those townhomes; frame-in-place vs ground framing? Obviously, you save crane time with the ground framing. We're about $90/hr for a crane here.

My first thought was that ground framing would only really save time on simple layouts, but hips/overbuilds would probably really go together better too.

But here's what really struck me. These days I'm working a lot with a wall/truss manufacturer. We frame the floors on site, but the walls are all built off-site and we just crane 'em in and nail 'em up. Guaranteed to be within 1/8" of plan specs. Sheathed walls and openings are all perfectly square because they're built/sheathed on a big jig.

As soon as the concrete forms come off, the manufacturer meets me onsite to snap chalks for the sill plate. EVERYTHING is built to those lines. We have 2-3 days to set basement bearing, build the floor/stairs, and backfill, while they build the walls/trusses.

But now you guys got me thinking that I should just reverse the order and have them deliver the trusses first. Once the floor is sheathed, we could just build the roof there; it's flat, level, and typically closely matches the footprint on the roof. It's also raised, so the rafter tails could hang off the edge. A nice straight sub-fascia would be a breeze; no booms, ladders, or hanging off the edge. In that case I wouldn't have any qualms about ground sheathing the roof and my guys could probably work at least double speed when they're not 30' off the ground.

Typically takes us 2-3 hours to set all the walls. So, if we took an hour or less to move the roof off the foundation, 2-3 hours for the walls; we'd still have about 4 hours with the crane on site to set the roof. What do you think? 4 hours enough to set a pre-built roof. We're talking typical 1500-2000sf house with 2-3 car garage.
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Old 07-24-2015, 08:09 PM   #14
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Re: Roof Framing On Ground


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Kyle
Ever done a comparison of man hours on one of those townhomes; frame-in-place vs ground framing? Obviously, you save crane time with the ground framing. We're about $90/hr for a crane here.

My first thought was that ground framing would only really save time on simple layouts, but hips/overbuilds would probably really go together better too.

But here's what really struck me. These days I'm working a lot with a wall/truss manufacturer. We frame the floors on site, but the walls are all built off-site and we just crane 'em in and nail 'em up. Guaranteed to be within 1/8" of plan specs. Sheathed walls and openings are all perfectly square because they're built/sheathed on a big jig.

As soon as the concrete forms come off, the manufacturer meets me onsite to snap chalks for the sill plate. EVERYTHING is built to those lines. We have 2-3 days to set basement bearing, build the floor/stairs, and backfill, while they build the walls/trusses.

But now you guys got me thinking that I should just reverse the order and have them deliver the trusses first. Once the floor is sheathed, we could just build the roof there; it's flat, level, and typically closely matches the footprint on the roof. It's also raised, so the rafter tails could hang off the edge. A nice straight sub-fascia would be a breeze; no booms, ladders, or hanging off the edge. In that case I wouldn't have any qualms about ground sheathing the roof and my guys could probably work at least double speed when they're not 30' off the ground.

Typically takes us 2-3 hours to set all the walls. So, if we took an hour or less to move the roof off the foundation, 2-3 hours for the walls; we'd still have about 4 hours with the crane on site to set the roof. What do you think? 4 hours enough to set a pre-built roof. We're talking typical 1500-2000sf house with 2-3 car garage.
Now add a telehandler in the picture and lift your own trusses, build the roof up high, save on the crane, it all depends on the way you work. We do it mainly this way and can lift, stand, and sheath 1200-2000 sq/ft in one day with 3 guys. Add a crane to that and you're spending a lot more $ per day to get same work done. Tall guys on the crew though so fascia is a breeze.
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Old 07-24-2015, 11:02 PM   #15
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Re: Roof Framing On Ground


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Now add a telehandler in the picture and lift your own trusses, build the roof up high, save on the crane, it all depends on the way you work. We do it mainly this way and can lift, stand, and sheath 1200-2000 sq/ft in one day with 3 guys. Add a crane to that and you're spending a lot more $ per day to get same work done. Tall guys on the crew though so fascia is a breeze.
You guys are crazy fast then. I've never had a 3 man crew that could fly trusses, brace, and sheath a 2000sf footprint with garage in one day. That's even with crane.
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Old 07-25-2015, 01:49 AM   #16
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Re: Roof Framing On Ground


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You guys are crazy fast then. I've never had a 3 man crew that could fly trusses, brace, and sheath a 2000sf footprint with garage in one day. That's even with crane.
We have gables and/or hip sections ready on ground and swing up full bundles, have aluminum planks along exterior wall, centre guy walks interiors, use planks to hang fascia, brace and apply ceiling drywall backing, then 2 guys start sheathing just after noon while one guy finishes hip framing or overframes, done at 6:30. We're not the slowest on the block though
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Old 07-25-2015, 10:04 AM   #17
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Re: Roof Framing On Ground


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We have gables and/or hip sections ready on ground and swing up full bundles, have aluminum planks along exterior wall, centre guy walks interiors, use planks to hang fascia, brace and apply ceiling drywall backing, then 2 guys start sheathing just after noon while one guy finishes hip framing or overframes, done at 6:30. We're not the slowest on the block though

We used to work like that. I'm assuming the typical home you build is entry level/ production based? We used to jack all gables on the walls so that was taken care of already. When roof day came, 2 or 3 guys would push up trusses from the ground and two guys were on top of the plates setting. Facia was already on the wall so all we had to do was square, sight and nail. The. We built a rack for plywood so we could stack a bunch of sheets at a time and all be up on the roof. Usually have a 2000 sqft saltbox or 1400sqft ranch done in a 9-10 day with 5 guys. Maybe a couple hrs left the next day.

Like I said before though, USED to be able to. Now we build more cut up stuff that takes a few day just for trusses. The roofs are a lot steeper too which slows us down a little.

I certainly enjoy building the bigger stuff more, but sometimes I miss slamming out a house in 3-4days. It didn't hurt that we were 10-15 years younger either.
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Old 07-25-2015, 09:12 PM   #18
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Re: Roof Framing On Ground


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We used to work like that. I'm assuming the typical home you build is entry level/ production based? We used to jack all gables on the walls so that was taken care of already. When roof day came, 2 or 3 guys would push up trusses from the ground and two guys were on top of the plates setting. Facia was already on the wall so all we had to do was square, sight and nail. The. We built a rack for plywood so we could stack a bunch of sheets at a time and all be up on the roof. Usually have a 2000 sqft saltbox or 1400sqft ranch done in a 9-10 day with 5 guys. Maybe a couple hrs left the next day.

Like I said before though, USED to be able to. Now we build more cut up stuff that takes a few day just for trusses. The roofs are a lot steeper too which slows us down a little.

I certainly enjoy building the bigger stuff more, but sometimes I miss slamming out a house in 3-4days. It didn't hurt that we were 10-15 years younger either.
We do many production homes with a healthy variety of chopped up custom and light commercial. I'm referring to the production type homes above though.
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Old 07-25-2015, 10:43 PM   #19
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Re: Roof Framing On Ground


If we are strictly talking about man hours, I'd venture that it would actually be faster setting in place.
Crane time is much quicker. The last block of towns I posted a picture of took 40minutes to set and nail down all 6 packs of walls. Took 2 hours to slide the party trusses in ontop of that I will add though.
The biggest benefit we have is not working at heights. No matter what way I look at it, it's always safer on the ground. I'm willing to take a marginal labour hit for a multitude of safety factor.
We do make up some of the time on the ground by doing all the truss bracing, hangers and small time consuming tasks while we can walk around easily.

For reference, we craned a roof on a 1800sqft bungalow piece by piece today and it took us 65minutes from setup.
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Old 07-29-2015, 07:21 PM   #20
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Re: Roof Framing On Ground


How many of you guys use the Simpson metal truss spacers? We don't use them unless they are supplied by the builder, which is never. I've used them helping out friends though and I think they're the cat's meow. The reason we don't use them is cost, they are basically $2 per space. $4 if you run on both sides. I can definitely see a safety argument in there too, those little bastards are sharp!
Just curious what you guys think.

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