Poll:Hand Nail Or Gun - Framing - Contractor Talk

Poll:Hand Nail Or Gun

 
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Old 03-13-2008, 05:41 AM   #1
 
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Poll:Hand Nail Or Gun


When I first started in the trades we never used guns.For the last 15 years, I Have gotten so used to shooting everything, I never thought there were guys who still exclusively hand nail.A few months ago , another company was working across the street from us and after the first couple of days I noticed I hadnt heard a compressor going, so I wtched for a while and sure enough, these guy were hand nailing everything.After a few weeks, I was talking to the owner and he said it was easier, his guys could tell if they missed while sheathing,it took too long to set up and break down the airlines etc and his guys didnt waste nails the way they would if they were shooting. Any body else like this?
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Old 03-13-2008, 05:58 AM   #2
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Re: Poll:Hand Nail Or Gun


me too. I never used a pneumatic nailer before. Then I got into framing. Now when I do those "Little" jobs, you know, like replacing a rotted section of floor I never hand drive anything. Plus I am getting too old to hand drive. Not to mention how much quicker it is.

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Old 03-13-2008, 07:16 AM   #3
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Re: Poll:Hand Nail Or Gun


Little short jobs....maybe. Day in and day out...no. No way can you nail something faster by hand except for a few instances. I drag the airhose up into trusses. Once you've convinced yourself to use it exclusively, it's to your advantage.

I did work for a guy in Woodinville, WA (where the ELF people torched the homes last week) that started a 6000 sf home and had nails dropped off. 2 boxes of 8d's for wall sheathing and 20 boxes of 12d VC sinkers. I lasted a week my elbow hurt so much.
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Old 03-13-2008, 07:44 AM   #4
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Re: Poll:Hand Nail Or Gun


Quote:
After a few weeks, I was talking to the owner and he said it was easier, his guys could tell if they missed while sheathing,
How his guys couldn't tell they missed while sheathing with a gun is beyond me.

Quote:
it took too long to set up and break down the airlines etc
Something that would've been easily offset by the efficiency of the nailer. In the 10 minutes that it takes to set up the compressor & hoses, how many "more" nails can they shoot than bang?

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and his guys didnt waste nails the way they would if they were shooting.
?

i.e., "I'm too cheap to spring for the extra equipment, so I'll waste a dollar to save a penny."

I was skeptical about using guns in my trade at first (Roofing), but once I did, I never looked back. It increased my production by 200%. And we swing our hammer an average 10,000 a day (more than any other trade) based on an average production rate.

Guns are like the invention of the wheel.

Personally, when I do any Carpentry work, I love to use my hammer for general light work, but if I have to do any kind of production work, I wouldn't dream of using anything less than a gun. Makes no sense. For the cost of about 10 decent hammers, you can have a gun & compressor combo that'll pay for itself on the first day...and save your elbow.

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Old 03-13-2008, 07:52 AM   #5
 
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Re: Poll:Hand Nail Or Gun


Thank god for the cordless nailer! When I am building a home of course I set up the gas compresser, but if I go into a house to fix some small framing or install a few peaces of trim I break out the impulses.
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Old 03-13-2008, 07:59 AM   #6
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Re: Poll:Hand Nail Or Gun


There are times when running to get the gun would be a hastle, and if you don't have many nails, it may be easier to hand pound them. However, if you are putting in more than a few nails, you are shooting your self in the foot to hand pound them. There are also times where the gun won't fit, and you have to hand pound of course. The guns really prove their worth when you have to hold something as you nail it, particularly if you are toe nailing, because the gun doesn't move the piece as much as hammering a nail into it.
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Old 03-13-2008, 09:18 AM   #7
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Re: Poll:Hand Nail Or Gun


My father told me "You can't use a hammer until you master the broom."
(I'm sure you've seen that quote a few times by me.)
At the time, I didn't understand it, but I came to once I mastered the hammer.

It applies to all facets of work. I dont' think my father was trying to be existential or anything, but it's simplicity was lost on my 14 year old mind.

Today, before I let anyone I teach hold a gun, they'd have to prove their worth with a hammer first. It's a natural progression. The hammer today has become a specialty tool while guns are onsite. They are a back up, a support to the gun. Still, you have to have mastered the hammer before you can begin with a gun.

You have to walk, before you can run.
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Old 03-13-2008, 09:31 AM   #8
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Re: Poll:Hand Nail Or Gun


Back in the late 80's I worked for a couple of framers who made us hand nail all framing and only brought out guns for plywood only.
I use a small electric compressor for small jobs
It takes only a minute to set up,easier on the elbow,and a lot faster than hand nailing
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Old 03-13-2008, 03:12 PM   #9
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Re: Poll:Hand Nail Or Gun


Quote:
Originally Posted by big steve View Post
I was talking to the owner and he said it was easier, his guys could tell if they missed while sheathing,it took too long to set up and break down the airlines etc and his guys didnt waste nails the way they would if they were shooting. Any body else like this?
Steve
The owner is a fool and his guys are idiots. The owner is an idiot also for using a lame excuse that it takes to long to set up and is probably an old timer and is like an old dog that you can't teach new tricks to.

This isn't even a pole. Hand nailing vs guns. No brainer. Those guys can knock themselves out nailing by hand.
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Old 03-13-2008, 04:09 PM   #10
 
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Re: Poll:Hand Nail Or Gun


I agree with pretty much everything said here,I was just kind of blown away that there were still people out there that dont use guns I personally Have a couple of Bostich n88 for framing and i love the bostich coilers for sheathing.
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Old 03-13-2008, 04:24 PM   #11
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Re: Poll:Hand Nail Or Gun


Quote:
After a few weeks, I was talking to the owner and he said it was easier, his guys could tell if they missed while sheathing,

Generally speaking, if you miss while sheathing, your nail disappears through the hole it has left behind!
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Old 03-13-2008, 04:25 PM   #12
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Re: Poll:Hand Nail Or Gun


I like the guns, but it really helps to know how to use and swing your hammer. On our crew, you are not allowed to use a gun for about the first 3 months +. This allows the new guys to get comfortable in the situation they are in, eliminating that as a possible cause of shooting yourself. Also, it forces them to somewhat develop a basis for their hammering skill.
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Old 03-13-2008, 04:28 PM   #13
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Re: Poll:Hand Nail Or Gun


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Originally Posted by FRAMERBEN View Post
I like the guns, but it really helps to know how to use and swing your hammer. On our crew, you are not allowed to use a gun for about the first 3 months +. This allows the new guys to get comfortable in the situation they are in, eliminating that as a possible cause of shooting yourself. Also, it forces them to somewhat develop a basis for their hammering skill.
Absolutely. Progress is the key to perfection. Little, itty-bitty, teenie-weenie, baby steps for most!
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Old 03-13-2008, 05:41 PM   #14
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Re: Poll:Hand Nail Or Gun


Gun... I love to use the hammer to plumb walls though. I HATE dragging a hose through walls and getting it tied up when im plumbing all the walls, so i go cordless or i hand drive them.
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Old 03-13-2008, 07:00 PM   #15
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Re: Poll:Hand Nail Or Gun


Another big plus to using nail guns is the fact that they are coated with an adhesive. The speed at which nail guns shoot, heats the adhesive, making the nail hold better. If you don't believe me try pulling a shot nail, then re-drive the same nail. It will not take anything to pull it out. Sinkers are coated also, but you have to drive it home quickly. I know it can be done, but not like a nail gun. The nail gun does it regardless of the experience pulling the trigger. MY VOTE IS A NAIL GUN FOR BOTH HANDS!
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Old 03-13-2008, 07:04 PM   #16
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Re: Poll:Hand Nail Or Gun


Comparing nail guns vs hand nailing is like comparing cutting with a circular saw vs handsaw.
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Old 03-13-2008, 07:25 PM   #17
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Re: Poll:Hand Nail Or Gun


it wasn't until about 10 or 12 years ago i went with a compressor. I hand nailed everything since 1974. Now if i have to hand nail my fingertips get sore from pulling the individual nailer out of the collated clips. today I cant imagine using anything BUT guns. My next purchase is going to be that CO2 setup for the small jobs when I don't want to set up the compressor and hoses. I use all flexeel hoses also.
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Old 03-13-2008, 07:34 PM   #18
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Re: Poll:Hand Nail Or Gun


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Originally Posted by A W Smith View Post
it wasn't until about 10 or 12 years ago i went with a compressor. I hand nailed everything since 1974. Now if i have to hand nail my fingertips get sore from pulling the individual nailer out of the collated clips. today I cant imagine using anything BUT guns. My next purchase is going to be that CO2 setup for the small jobs when I don't want to set up the compressor and hoses. I use all flexeel hoses also.
impulse. Impulse. IMPULSE. Oooohhh Baby. That was good!
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Old 03-13-2008, 08:02 PM   #19
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Re: Poll:Hand Nail Or Gun


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Originally Posted by MALCO.New.York View Post
impulse. Impulse. IMPULSE. Oooohhh Baby. That was good!
my first non compressor gun was an impulse framer I bought about 16 years ago, one of the old carbon black colored ones with the real long battery. It seemed to eat up fuel cells at the rate of four or five a box of nails @ 6 bucks a pop. After being repaired about three or four times in nine or ten years it died. no power to the ignition or fan motor. I loved that gun. Ill pay the 87 or so dollars for the co2 kit rather than a few hun for new impulse gun.
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Old 03-13-2008, 08:57 PM   #20
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Re: Poll:Hand Nail Or Gun


Quote:
Originally Posted by MALCO.New.York View Post
impulse. Impulse. IMPULSE. Oooohhh Baby. That was good!
CO2 is much better because you dont have to buy any new guns. And any one of your guys can use it on his fav gun.

Trust me get the CO2 you wont look back... Mostly because I HATE using any gun but MY hitachi with no spring

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