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Pergola, Curved Ledger At House.

 
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Old 12-21-2010, 08:53 PM   #1
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Pergola, Curved Ledger At House.


hey guys, I got a call from a new client. He has two projects to complete at his house. He just replaced all the EIFS on this huge house with real stucco. the back of the house gets the pergola, all with 3x10 rough sawn lumber. Big rough beams etc.
They already installed the ledger as it had to be installed before the stucco scratch coat was put on over wirelath. It's angled in spots, it's flat in spots and one area it's curved. all together we have 4 huge posts to put in on the outside of the pergola located on top of a huge concrete patio that is soon going to get limestone over the whole thing.
WE have about 26 3x10s to put up with a detail on the ends. I'm wondering the best way to cut a 3x10 where it has to butt to the CURVED wall/ledger? I can figure out the others some will be straight cut, some 45 deg. but the curved ones have me baffled as to the quickest neatest way to shape them around the ledger without taking all day to do it with a chisel. I don't have the detail on how they will fasten but the owner told me today they will have another ledger at the bottom and each 3x10 will be notched to rest on this sub ledger located at the bottom of the ledger that is existing.

out on the beam side of the pergola, there are curved arch supports that are to be place on each side of the post for lateral support. none of these supports are made, they all have to be made on site out of the lumber that is already there. There are huge piles of 3x10s, stacked neatly and covered up.

Some carpenters have already been on this job but are not off the job, that's a whole other story, so I'm not 100% positive I will take this job but it's a challenge and I like those, plus it's work for 3-4 weeks in Jan. He's got another outdoor room that already has the block walls up but now needs a roof framed with exposed 3x10 rafters and some LVLs that get wrapped in pine. this will be an area for outdoor space/entertaining, not interior.

if there is a power tool out there to cut/shape these 3x10s, to the curved ledger let me know. thanks!
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Old 12-21-2010, 09:03 PM   #2
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Re: Pergola, Curved Ledger At House.


can the ends be let in to the ledger Dan?

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Old 12-21-2010, 09:04 PM   #3
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Re: Pergola, Curved Ledger At House.


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Originally Posted by ApgarNJ View Post
I'm wondering the best way to cut a 3x10 where it has to butt to the CURVED wall/ledger?
Am I picturing correctly that the 10" dimension will be vertical? If so, I can't imagine that there'd be a heckuva lot of curve to match up to over 3". Maybe a contour gauge and a 4" grinder using very coarse-grit sandpaper?

I've done variable concave shapes with a table saw or circ saw running sideways at an angle, but that'd probably be too deep for this.

I enjoy puzzles like that, but with the size of those babies, I'll pass.

ETA: Oh, is the ledger curved vertically? Then the saw blade thing might suit.
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Old 12-21-2010, 09:09 PM   #4
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Re: Pergola, Curved Ledger At House.


3" over any radius, convex or concave, isn't much. Lacking a portable bandsaw, figure out a compromise angle, and either hollow it out or round it over with a belt sander.
Sounds like a fun project.
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Old 12-21-2010, 09:12 PM   #5
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Re: Pergola, Curved Ledger At House.


The ledger is is square, but curved to fit the rounded wall of the house in one section.
I was thinking a grinder would work, or maybe the Rotex in aggressive mode with heavy grit paper to make it really fit nicely.

I am thinking of a portable band saw to cut the profile into the end of each beam. any other suggestions to make a nice clean square cut, jigsaw is out of the question

tom, I don't think so. The ledger is already up, are you thinking chiseling each one into the ledger? I was hoping we wouldn't have to put that second ledger on there, that is still up for debate. I would have liked to fasten them with timberloks and then recess them and plug with wood.
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Old 12-21-2010, 09:15 PM   #6
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Re: Pergola, Curved Ledger At House.


it sounds like a fun project but I'm wondering why the other guys are out of there and now I am possibly in there. supposedly they were just finish carpenters for interior work and couldn't hack the outside work in the cold. The homeowner still has to agree to my terms of how long it's going to take, what he thinks and what I think are two different things. This is going to be time consuming work and the pergola is just one part of the project, when it's all done, I'm going to say the outdoor space/limestone patio is going to be 3500-4000 sq ft or more of space.
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Old 12-21-2010, 09:22 PM   #7
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Re: Pergola, Curved Ledger At House.


Think I'd take my bandsaw to the site. But you would have to set up some high saw horses to support the other end as you make the cuts.

Also I think you would need a 15" bandsaw at a minimum. Those little ones won't do this.

The ends going into the ledger you could do with hand tools, I am more thinking about the other shaped ends.
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Old 12-21-2010, 09:23 PM   #8
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Re: Pergola, Curved Ledger At House.


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Originally Posted by ApgarNJ View Post
I am thinking of a portable band saw to cut the profile into the end of each beam.
I got nuthin' better.

Quote:
The ledger is already up, are you thinking chiseling each one into the ledger?
I don't think it would be too hard to make up a jig to use a circ saw and/or router for that. Good idea, as long as the ledger is thick enough to carry the load after a cut like that.
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Old 12-21-2010, 09:23 PM   #9
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Re: Pergola, Curved Ledger At House.


Dan, at times these large projects, that are out of the ordinary, make guys run. Curved ledger & 3x10 Pergola Rafters could make the average guy think twice. You mentioned a portable band saw for the end cuts on the pergola. If you don't have one they are a way cool tool, you just don't use it all that often, unless you get into this niche market. Judging from your past posts here, this project should be right up your alley. How is it spec'd/proposed to tie the Pergola rafters to the ledger, specifically in the curved section? Projects like this will separate you from your competition. Good Luck.
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Old 12-21-2010, 09:29 PM   #10
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Re: Pergola, Curved Ledger At House.


Portable band saw is best for the ends. For the curved wall I always cut an angle thats close then grind out the center, this is faster than trying to cut a slight curve with a band saw. All these ends and corbels I cut with a portable bandsaw, works awsome.
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Old 12-21-2010, 09:31 PM   #11
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Re: Pergola, Curved Ledger At House.


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Think I'd take my bandsaw to the site. But you would have to set up some high saw horses to support the other end as you make the cuts.

Also I think you would need a 15" bandsaw at a minimum. Those little ones won't do this.

The ends going into the ledger you could do with hand tools, I am more thinking about the other shaped ends.
the shaped ends should be able to be cut with a corded deep cut bandsaw. they aren't being shaped on the 10" side. let me look for a picture of what it will look like, not really a complex cut. just a lot of them to do, the outdoor room gets the same cut on the end of each rafter, so probably 50 ends to be cut with the same design.
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Old 12-21-2010, 09:34 PM   #12
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Re: Pergola, Curved Ledger At House.


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Dan, at times these large projects, that are out of the ordinary, make guys run. Curved ledger & 3x10 Pergola Rafters could make the average guy think twice. You mentioned a portable band saw for the end cuts on the pergola. If you don't have one they are a way cool tool, you just don't use it all that often, unless you get into this niche market. Judging from your past posts here, this project should be right up your alley. How is it spec'd/proposed to tie the Pergola rafters to the ledger, specifically in the curved section? Projects like this will separate you from your competition. Good Luck.
Griz,

that is the detail I'm waiting to get as the plans don't show how to fasten the rafters to the ledger. the owner told me there would be a second ledger at the bottom of the current one, so each rafter would be notched, but there still needs to be a way to toenail or timberlok them to keep them from moving side to side. I want to talk to him about not doing that second ledger as we'll have to bend around that curved area again with a second smaller sub-ledger.
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Old 12-21-2010, 09:42 PM   #13
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Re: Pergola, Curved Ledger At House.


You can make those cuts with a jigsaw and a long, thick blade.

Bosch, Hilti and Metabo all make monster blades. Probably NOT a Home Depot item, but you can get them. I've used the Hilti ones on 4X and they worked beautifully.
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Old 12-21-2010, 09:49 PM   #14
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Re: Pergola, Curved Ledger At House.


I need a new jigsaw, but been waiting for the Carvex from festool to come out. i have used Bosch blades before but I haven't seen any really thick. I'm thinking the band saw might do a cleaner cut, no chance of it bending out and not getting a square cut.
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Old 12-21-2010, 09:57 PM   #15
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Re: Pergola, Curved Ledger At House.


The band saw can bend the blade pretty easy and then your cuts all over the place. You have to be pretty carefull not to tweak the blade. If you only do 3x and some 4x material I would definatly look at the festool jigsaw and there bigger blades. A cabnet guy I know has a festool jigsaw, one work for it. Awsome I was messing around on some 3X12 and it cut supper strait. Ive also never seen the bigger blades for bosch. Id like to get my hands on some to try. There quite a price difference between a jigsaw and a $2700 + portable band saw. I use the band saw alot but we use a ton of 6X and 8X material.
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Old 12-21-2010, 10:01 PM   #16
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Re: Pergola, Curved Ledger At House.


festool carvex isn't out for several more months. I might buy the bosch one to get me by as the festool one is just overpriced that's out now. a bunch of guys prefer the bosch over the current festool jigsaw.
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Old 12-21-2010, 10:13 PM   #17
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Re: Pergola, Curved Ledger At House.


I know the bosches are super tough. Im on year 5 on mine and its been droped from stupid heights more than once and still rocks. Blades that hold up is my biggest problem.
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Old 12-21-2010, 10:15 PM   #18
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Re: Pergola, Curved Ledger At House.


I'll get you some of the new Bosch jigsaw blades to try out. I have some prototypes they are experimenting with, but I think when I last talked to them, they were making some mods based on my feedback.

I'll call the Product Manager at Bosch for you tomorrow and see what they can get out to you.
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Old 12-21-2010, 10:17 PM   #19
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Re: Pergola, Curved Ledger At House.


I was just looking at some bosch blades on amazon 4" long. they don't mention whether they are thicker and meant for thick timbers or not.

thanks greg!
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Old 12-21-2010, 10:20 PM   #20
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Re: Pergola, Curved Ledger At House.


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I know the bosches are super tough. Im on year 5 on mine and its been droped from stupid heights more than once and still rocks. Blades that hold up is my biggest problem.
barrel grip or D handle? my PC one is a POS and is one of my oldest tools I have, it just blows the dust directly into your face no matter where you stand.
I can't wait to stop using that old jigsaw. It's the only one I ever bought and it never dies. I think I am going to get the barrel grip bosch, 7.0 amp one is the new one out.

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